Posnanski: HOF voters are stupid... - Page 2

DaWolf · 02-06-2007, 02:17 AM

I suggest we ask Peter King to respond to this...

JOE POSNANSKI COMMENTARY
GIVE HIM HIS DUE
Pro Football Hall of Fame voters’ perceptions are clouded when it comes to Derrick Thomas

MIAMI | There probably are worse ways to pick pro football hall of famers than by locking 40 wildly diverse sportswriters and broadcasters in a room and having them fight it out to the death. For instance: Having sportswriters throw darts at a dartboard with players’ names on it … that would be a worse way.

A “Wheel of Hall of Fame Fortune” game show — that would be worse.

OK, that’s all I can come up with.

Saturday afternoon, the 40-man party crew known as the Pro Football Hall of Fame selection committee batted things around and again passed on Derrick Thomas. That makes three years running, and it’s now becoming apparent that Thomas may never get selected for the Hall of Fame. This seemed as if it would be his year. The ballot was thin. The vote was in Thomas’ hometown. The time seemed right.

The group did not vote him in again, choosing instead to honor Michael Irvin, which is a whole other story. Well, the bright side there is that anyone who thinks the personal mistakes Derrick Thomas may have made in his life have something to do with the Hall of Fame can put that idea away. Michael Irvin was selected for the Hall of Fame.

Anyway. The big problem here seems to be a matter of perception. This Hall of Fame committee, for whatever reason, remains unconvinced. Some of them seem to think Derrick Thomas is a “borderline” Hall of Fame candidate. I have no idea where this idea came from — maybe his case hasn’t been presented right, or maybe committee members have spent too much time talking about his so-called weaknesses as a player, or maybe they just didn’t see him play enough because the Chiefs never reached a Super Bowl.

Maybe some of them simply slept through the 1990s.

So this needs to be written down: There is nothing borderline about Derrick Thomas’ football case. He is a slam-dunk, no-doubt, sure-as-shooting Hall of Famer. He should have gone in on the first ballot with Dan Marino and that group. He changed as many football games as any defensive player in the NFL in the 1990s. He sacked more quarterbacks, caused more fumbles, fired up more crowds, forced more bad passes and shifted more momentum than anyone else.

The idea of football is to win. The Chiefs went 110-65-1 during Derrick Thomas’ career. He was the biggest reason why they kept winning.

Look: Derrick Thomas had 126 1/2 sacks in his career before he died too young. Nobody had more in that time frame. He set the NFL record for sacks in a game with seven. He was the unquestioned leader of a Chiefs team that went to the playoffs seven times in 11 seasons (and just missed two other times). The Chiefs’ defense finished in the top half of the NFL every season but one, was in the top 10 six times and was No. 1 in the entire league twice. This guy was a dominant football player.

How dominant? He made nine Pro Bowls. Nine. In the history of the NFL, only 57 players have made nine or more Pro Bowls — and among the eligible players, only five of them are not in the Hall of Fame. No linebacker has made more than 10. Among the greatest linebackers, Dick Butkus was in eight Pro Bowls. Willie Lanier was in eight Pro Bowls. Nick Buoniconti was in eight Pro Bowls. And so on.

By the way, Michael Irvin made just five Pro Bowls, which at last check was more than his number of drug arrests, though it’s close. Thurman Thomas, another Hall of Fame choice this year, made only five Pro Bowls, too.

Oh yeah, and there has been some talk that some other pass rushers like Fred Dean, Andre Tippett and Richard Dent have created a foggy situation for Hall of Fame voters. How can you tell them apart? Well, here’s one way: Fred Dean made four Pro Bowls, Andre Tippett five and Richard Dent four. Come on. They were fine pass rushers. They were not Derrick Thomas.

Thomas was a uniquely dominating player. Every coach had to game-plan around him. Every offense had to focus on him. Every young linebacker wanted to be Derrick Thomas. And as for the knock that he was not a great “all-round” player — come on. What is an all-round football player anyway? John Elway couldn’t kick field goals. Mike Singletary couldn’t throw passes. Derrick Thomas’ job was not to cover receivers and stuff the run. His job was to get the quarterback and create havoc, and he did it with an abandon that few players in the history of the game ever matched.

And as for the idea that he was a “liability against the run,” as I heard one voter say — that’s baloney, as my father used to say. In Thomas’ 11 seasons, the Chiefs allowed more than 4 yards per rush only twice. Teams did not run the ball against the Chiefs. And then consider this: The Chiefs did not have a single other linebacker make the Pro Bowl in his career. Liability. Sheesh. Let’s just hope nobody ever again offers that stupid line.

Derrick Thomas has other credentials. He was the NFL Man of the Year. He forced 45 fumbles, recorded three safeties and scored four touchdowns. He was the player who, as much as anyone, turned Kansas City into one of the great football towns in the NFL.

But all of these are just extras. Derrick Thomas dominated professional football games. He changed professional football games. He was, post-Lawrence Taylor, the most electrifying defensive player in the NFL. I have no idea what those guys in the room said about Thomas, but Derrick Thomas is not a guy you talk about. He’s a guy you vote for without question and without hesitation. Let’s hope some people wake up.
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansas...s/16630797.htm

**the Talking Can** · 02-06-2007, 07:12 AM

"He was, post-Lawrence Taylor, the most electrifying defensive player in the NFL. "

BINGO

anyone who claims that Irvin is a better football player than DT IS A ****ING MORAN.....good god this is reeruned

DT was one of a kind.

**the Talking Can** · 02-06-2007, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Good players from great teams get in before great players from good teams.

rep

that's why Irvin is in and DT is out....a sick joke

StcChief · 02-06-2007, 08:08 AM

DT will get in....likely just before his eligibility runs out.

So does JoPo get the vote or present DT?

**BigRedChief** · 02-06-2007, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcfanXIII

bigger shame, buck o'neil, or derrick thomas?

Buck O'neil shouldn't be in the hall of fame at all. According to the baseball rules for the HOF off the field activities don't count. Buck wasn't a HOF player on the field. But that being said I still think he belongs in the HOF because of what he did for the game. Fuk the rules. Put him in.

Chiefnj · 02-06-2007, 08:24 AM

Here is the DT Hall of Fame media packet.

Your thoughts, comments, suggestions??

http://www.kcchiefs.com/media/misc/t...ame_packet.pdf

**Lzen** · 02-06-2007, 08:30 AM

I think JoPo should be the one making DT's case to the voters instead of Gretz.

**BigRedChief** · 02-06-2007, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lzen

I think JoPo should be the one making DT's case to the voters instead of Gretz.

You never know if their is a backlash from Gretz making the presentation. That have to know he's a tool of the Chiefs marketing department.

ROYC75 · 02-06-2007, 08:47 AM

I feel it's more the bias media than Gretz.........

StcChief · 02-06-2007, 08:53 AM

Problem their likely aren't really any guidelines....

if it's his Stats, he would be in already.

Too many fuzzy intangeables thing to stop him.

Simplex3 · 02-06-2007, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taco John

Sportswriters shouldn't even have a vote. It should be left to the Players and Coaches who actually played the game. Or fine, give the sportswriters a vote to supplement the players and coaches, but then let the fans have a vote too.

The idea that guys like Dr. Z are selecting who deserves a spot in the HOF or not is a depressing thought.

We can certainly agree on that.

I'd make it a vote of the surviving past players and coaches, period. The fans and the media are going to screw it up every time.

DTLB58 · 02-06-2007, 08:54 AM

Very good article

Great stat: 110-65-1 During the DT era!

Messier · 02-06-2007, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

You never know if their is a backlash from Gretz making the presentation. That have to know he's a tool of the Chiefs marketing department.

All teams have a Gretz. No one is saying, oh that's just Carl Petersons flunky, forget him. All teams have press guys getting paid by the team, and some of them I'm sure make the case for HOF players.

**Easy 6** · 02-06-2007, 09:41 AM

Once again, Joe proves he's one of the best in the biz.

DT beats LT in more categories than not.

Sacks per game - more

Forced Fumbles - more

Fumble Recoveries - more

TD's - more

Safeties - more

If a guy can take that many categories away from LT, he is SURELY a HOFer.

Frazod · 02-06-2007, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taco John

Sportswriters shouldn't even have a vote. It should be left to the Players and Coaches who actually played the game. Or fine, give the sportswriters a vote to supplement the players and coaches, but then let the fans have a vote too.

The idea that guys like Dr. Z are selecting who deserves a spot in the HOF or not is a depressing thought.

Agreed. Of course, Dr. Z getting a vote doesn't bother me nearly as much as that asshat King getting a vote. That's just wrong.

Brock · 02-06-2007, 09:48 AM

Dr. Z actually has endorsed Derrick Thomas as HOF worthy. If you didn't play for the Jets, Giants, or Patriots, King doesn't care about you.

02-06-2007, 02:17 AM
DaWolf Cry havoc... Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10007725	Posnanski: HOF voters are stupid... I suggest we ask Peter King to respond to this... JOE POSNANSKI COMMENTARY GIVE HIM HIS DUE Pro Football Hall of Fame voters’ perceptions are clouded when it comes to Derrick Thomas MIAMI \| There probably are worse ways to pick pro football hall of famers than by locking 40 wildly diverse sportswriters and broadcasters in a room and having them fight it out to the death. For instance: Having sportswriters throw darts at a dartboard with players’ names on it … that would be a worse way. A “Wheel of Hall of Fame Fortune” game show — that would be worse. OK, that’s all I can come up with. Saturday afternoon, the 40-man party crew known as the Pro Football Hall of Fame selection committee batted things around and again passed on Derrick Thomas. That makes three years running, and it’s now becoming apparent that Thomas may never get selected for the Hall of Fame. This seemed as if it would be his year. The ballot was thin. The vote was in Thomas’ hometown. The time seemed right. The group did not vote him in again, choosing instead to honor Michael Irvin, which is a whole other story. Well, the bright side there is that anyone who thinks the personal mistakes Derrick Thomas may have made in his life have something to do with the Hall of Fame can put that idea away. Michael Irvin was selected for the Hall of Fame. Anyway. The big problem here seems to be a matter of perception. This Hall of Fame committee, for whatever reason, remains unconvinced. Some of them seem to think Derrick Thomas is a “borderline” Hall of Fame candidate. I have no idea where this idea came from — maybe his case hasn’t been presented right, or maybe committee members have spent too much time talking about his so-called weaknesses as a player, or maybe they just didn’t see him play enough because the Chiefs never reached a Super Bowl. Maybe some of them simply slept through the 1990s. So this needs to be written down: There is nothing borderline about Derrick Thomas’ football case. He is a slam-dunk, no-doubt, sure-as-shooting Hall of Famer. He should have gone in on the first ballot with Dan Marino and that group. He changed as many football games as any defensive player in the NFL in the 1990s. He sacked more quarterbacks, caused more fumbles, fired up more crowds, forced more bad passes and shifted more momentum than anyone else. The idea of football is to win. The Chiefs went 110-65-1 during Derrick Thomas’ career. He was the biggest reason why they kept winning. Look: Derrick Thomas had 126 1/2 sacks in his career before he died too young. Nobody had more in that time frame. He set the NFL record for sacks in a game with seven. He was the unquestioned leader of a Chiefs team that went to the playoffs seven times in 11 seasons (and just missed two other times). The Chiefs’ defense finished in the top half of the NFL every season but one, was in the top 10 six times and was No. 1 in the entire league twice. This guy was a dominant football player. How dominant? He made nine Pro Bowls. Nine. In the history of the NFL, only 57 players have made nine or more Pro Bowls — and among the eligible players, only five of them are not in the Hall of Fame. No linebacker has made more than 10. Among the greatest linebackers, Dick Butkus was in eight Pro Bowls. Willie Lanier was in eight Pro Bowls. Nick Buoniconti was in eight Pro Bowls. And so on. By the way, Michael Irvin made just five Pro Bowls, which at last check was more than his number of drug arrests, though it’s close. Thurman Thomas, another Hall of Fame choice this year, made only five Pro Bowls, too. Oh yeah, and there has been some talk that some other pass rushers like Fred Dean, Andre Tippett and Richard Dent have created a foggy situation for Hall of Fame voters. How can you tell them apart? Well, here’s one way: Fred Dean made four Pro Bowls, Andre Tippett five and Richard Dent four. Come on. They were fine pass rushers. They were not Derrick Thomas. Thomas was a uniquely dominating player. Every coach had to game-plan around him. Every offense had to focus on him. Every young linebacker wanted to be Derrick Thomas. And as for the knock that he was not a great “all-round” player — come on. What is an all-round football player anyway? John Elway couldn’t kick field goals. Mike Singletary couldn’t throw passes. Derrick Thomas’ job was not to cover receivers and stuff the run. His job was to get the quarterback and create havoc, and he did it with an abandon that few players in the history of the game ever matched. And as for the idea that he was a “liability against the run,” as I heard one voter say — that’s baloney, as my father used to say. In Thomas’ 11 seasons, the Chiefs allowed more than 4 yards per rush only twice. Teams did not run the ball against the Chiefs. And then consider this: The Chiefs did not have a single other linebacker make the Pro Bowl in his career. Liability. Sheesh. Let’s just hope nobody ever again offers that stupid line. Derrick Thomas has other credentials. He was the NFL Man of the Year. He forced 45 fumbles, recorded three safeties and scored four touchdowns. He was the player who, as much as anyone, turned Kansas City into one of the great football towns in the NFL. But all of these are just extras. Derrick Thomas dominated professional football games. He changed professional football games. He was, post-Lawrence Taylor, the most electrifying defensive player in the NFL. I have no idea what those guys in the room said about Thomas, but Derrick Thomas is not a guy you talk about. He’s a guy you vote for without question and without hesitation. Let’s hope some people wake up. http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansas...s/16630797.htm
Posts: 6,798

02-06-2007, 07:12 AM	#16
the Talking Can Supporter Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: street Casino cash: $9222208	"He was, post-Lawrence Taylor, the most electrifying defensive player in the NFL. " BINGO anyone who claims that Irvin is a better football player than DT IS A **ING MORAN.....good god this is reeruned DT was one of a kind. __________________ Clark Hunt: "Thank god for the Dominican pool boy"**
Posts: 51,585

02-06-2007, 08:08 AM	#18
StcChief Playing for #1 Draft Pick Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Just West of Lambs land Casino cash: $10004900	DT will get in....likely just before his eligibility runs out. So does JoPo get the vote or present DT? __________________ sig test for this screwy schema
Posts: 25,901

02-06-2007, 08:24 AM	#20
Chiefnj MVP Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Willis, Harris and Davis. Casino cash: $10004900	Here is the DT Hall of Fame media packet. Your thoughts, comments, suggestions?? http://www.kcchiefs.com/media/misc/t...ame_packet.pdf __________________ "I always tell (the assistant coaches), 'Make it simple, 'cause I'm stupid,'" Edwards said. "This ain't computer football." Herm Edwards, 3-20-07 Q: Herm, back on December 25th you were asked if Trent Green was your starter going into next season and you said, ‘yeah, why wouldn’t he be?’ Have you changed your mind on that? EDWARDS: No, I have not.” (1-11-07)
Posts: 6,811

02-06-2007, 08:30 AM	#21
Lzen Banded Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Oz Casino cash: $-619308	I think JoPo should be the one making DT's case to the voters instead of Gretz. __________________ Conversation would be vastly improved by the constant use of four simple words: I do not know.
Posts: 42,476

02-06-2007, 08:47 AM	#23
ROYC75 Time For Your Wake Up Call !!! Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Barn Yard Casino cash: $2187400	I feel it's more the bias media than Gretz......... __________________ Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it. John Lennon
Posts: 37,964

02-06-2007, 08:53 AM	#24
StcChief Playing for #1 Draft Pick Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Just West of Lambs land Casino cash: $10004900	Problem their likely aren't really any guidelines.... if it's his Stats, he would be in already. Too many fuzzy intangeables thing to stop him. __________________ sig test for this screwy schema
Posts: 25,901

02-06-2007, 08:54 AM	#26
DTLB58 DT CARD COLLECTOR Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: ManCave Casino cash: $10005837	Very good article Great stat: 110-65-1 During the DT era! __________________ 667 Different DT cards and counting
Posts: 7,574

02-06-2007, 09:41 AM	#28
Easy 6 pie is never free Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: the drivers seat Casino cash: $-122225	Once again, Joe proves he's one of the best in the biz. DT beats LT in more categories than not. Sacks per game - more Forced Fumbles - more Fumble Recoveries - more TD's - more Safeties - more If a guy can take that many categories away from LT, he is SURELY a HOFer.
Posts: 98,443

02-06-2007, 09:48 AM	#30
Brock Say hello to my little friend Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Larryville Casino cash: $9598422	Dr. Z actually has endorsed Derrick Thomas as HOF worthy. If you didn't play for the Jets, Giants, or Patriots, King doesn't care about you.
Posts: 47,314