Chiefs Hailing Haley's grill work? Hold on there, Chiefs - Page 2

FringeNC · 01-21-2009, 03:47 PM

Hailing Haley's grill work? Hold on there, Chiefs

Jan. 21, 2009
By Ray Ratto
CBSSports.com Columnist

The most intriguing story of the early Super Bowl prep is actually a sidebar, which is a weird enough way to start what might be the weirdest Super Bowl ever.

It isn't the Arizona Cardinals overcoming decades of self-applied filth; that one was played out after they beat Carolina.

(From Kurt Warner to T.O., Todd Haley has proven he won't back down to any player.) [Photo caption]

It isn't Anquan Boldin, the Cardinals wide receiver who chose an odd time to pitch a nutty, and is already finding the best way to backtrack.

It is, in fact, the sidebar to the Boldin story -- the fast-developing cult of Todd Haley.

Haley, the Arizona offensive coordinator who snapped back at Boldin on the sidelines during the NFC title game, has become the new prettiest girl at the dance -- the coach who faces down the diva wide receiver by pitching an even more effusive nutty. Indeed, he is the first coach since his mentor, Bill Parcells, to announce loudly and publicly that he is not a "players' coach."

And that is resonating in ways that Haley's work as the offensive coordinator of the pass-happy Cardinals never did. That is resonating so much, in fact, that he is now considered the next coach of the Kansas City Chiefs, which must come as a surprise to Herman Edwards, the current coach of the Kansas City Chiefs.

Indeed, the diva receiver is already learning the joy of institutional recoil. Terrell Owens is wondering for the first time if Jerry Jones still has his back. Chad Johnson already took a hard scolding from the Cincinnati Bengals. Braylon Edwards, Steve Smith, Randy Moss ... they have all found the limits to their diva-hood, and the largely more conservative customer seems fine with it.

But Haley has become the first assistant coach to actually benefit from striking back, and though it isn't his first time, the fact that he was willing to take time out of his busy schedule to strike back in the most public of venues makes him the new hot flavor.

He and Owens had their issues during his time in Dallas, a fact that is getting him points now for telling truth to power when it wasn't popular. He also gets points for having gotten in Larry Fitzgerald's grill in the offseason and being acknowledged by Fitzgerald for having a considerable role in Fitzgerald's breakout. He has had his loud arguments with Kurt Warner and both have come out ahead for it. Edgerrin James hasn't liked the way he's been used, but he suddenly got the ball more often down the stretch when Arizona decided it actually needed more of a running game than Tim Hightower and J.J. Arrington could provide.

And he really gets points for saying, as though he were channeling Parcells himself, that he isn't a players' coach. People like that, and as long as they're not the ones being barked at, they want to see more of it.

The down side, of course, is that Parcells did his best yelling when he had good teams, and Haley hasn't been the first-yeller-in-chief yet. Were he to get the Chiefs job, he would be yelling at a bad roster, which goes only so far before it makes you look like a lunatic rather than a strong man. True, he and Larry Johnson probably wouldn't get on well, but Johnson's time in Kansas City always seems short anyway.

In short, Haley looks great now because he and his employers are talented and on a roll, the best time to look tough. Even though the Cardinals are playing it down as best they can, the cult of Haley is rolling on at the best time for any cult to grow and flourish.

But like Parcells, who had to turn around a bad Giants team to make his rep, we won't know if Todd Haley is the next big deal until he can take a bad team on his own and make it a winner under his name. And we will actually get a hint of that this week and next if he tries to play up his newfound image as though it were a brand. That would be a bad idea, and would expose him as being too manufactured and disingenuous.

No, Haley needs someone in his face to be the caricature. What we'll discover next Sunday is not whether he can yell at Steve Breaston, because he probably can, but whether he can outthink a tougher defense than any he's faced this year.

That goes a lot further than any vein in his neck ever will.

talastan · 01-21-2009, 04:44 PM

If Haley is indeed the HC prospect who would he look to for his DC? This position is the biggest concern IMO, almost as much as the HC position itself. Our Defense is going to need an incredible turnaround simply for the sake and morale of the players themselves IMO.

BigChiefFan · 01-21-2009, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by talastan

I agree with what you said but there is one thing that is important not to leave out IMO. He has to be able to coach up these young guys. Teaching this young team effectively is going to be the most important job this next regime is going to face. Marty was effective when he came in because he could teach players well. Hopefully Haley can do the same while still holding the players accountable for their actions on and off the field.

I would say going to the Super Bowl qualifies for coaching the players up.

Mecca · 01-21-2009, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigChiefFan

He calls the offensive PLAYS. He's not just the O-line coach.

All that respect for Herm got us 6 wins in the past two seasons and it's not like Boldin hasn't been being a sucktit the entire season there. I want a coach who tells the players you work for ME, not the other way around. These prima donna athletes need to get a grip AND the fans that support said behavior.

Uh no, the OL coach was in reference to the guy bringing up Russ Grimm..

My gripe with Haley is you can be a tough coach and all that but players have to want to play for you, you can't make guys hate you.

eazyb81 · 01-21-2009, 04:50 PM

What the hell is going on?

Have people just accepted that Chris Collinsworth has inside info, or have more sources come to the surface saying that we are expected to hire Haley as the head coach?

Sorry if old news, I've been out of the loop all day.

talastan · 01-21-2009, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eazyb81

What the hell is going on?

Have people just accepted that Chris Collinsworth has inside info, or have more sources come to the surface saying that we are expected to hire Haley as the head coach?

Sorry if old news, I've been out of the loop all day.

I haven't, but nothing wrong with speculating about the possiblity and finding out more about a potential HC canidate is there?

DaWolf · 01-21-2009, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Uh no, the OL coach was in reference to the guy bringing up Russ Grimm..

My gripe with Haley is you can be a tough coach and all that but players have to want to play for you, you can't make guys hate you.

I think that goes back to what Pioli was saying in getting players in here who mesh with the head coach's personality. Not everyone loved Bellichik either until his second stint when he started winning in New England and adjusted his attitude a bit...

DTLB58 · 01-21-2009, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanilla Thunder

They are talking about him as possibly being the Chiefs coach on Around the Horn and PTI. Have we not heard something they have?

Nope, They were just playing off of the Collinsworth comments yesterday.

Everything on there is a day late.

BigChiefFan · 01-21-2009, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Uh no, the OL coach was in reference to the guy bringing up Russ Grimm..

My gripe with Haley is you can be a tough coach and all that but players have to want to play for you, you can't make guys hate you.

I agree with that sentiment, but I believe a coach should have more authority than any player. Boldin showed his ass the other day and I don't fault Haley in the least.

The problem is these athletes are millionaires and some are prima donnas, who don't take direction very well. I think Tom Coughlin is a perfect example of being a hard-nosed coach, who doesn't take any shit and I think that discipline pay divendends for the team. If a player can't take direction, they are worth keeping around in the first place.

eazyb81 · 01-21-2009, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by talastan

I haven't, but nothing wrong with speculating about the possiblity and finding out more about a potential HC canidate is there?

Of course not, I wasn't complaining about people talking about it.

But is this article simply in reference to Collinsworth's idle speculation from yesterday about Haley possibly being KC's head coach?

Until more info comes out, or even an anonymous source says something, it seems like much ado about nothing.

Mecca · 01-21-2009, 04:57 PM

Tom Coughlin is the kind of guy that can only coach in a place for so long...

By the end of his stay in Jacksonville the entire team hated him and basically refused to play for him. Fred Taylor admitted he would milk injuries and sit out extra games because of how much he hated Coughlin.

R&GHomer · 01-21-2009, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Tom Coughlin is the kind of guy that can only coach in a place for so long...

By the end of his stay in Jacksonville the entire team hated him and basically refused to play for him. Fred Taylor admitted he would milk injuries and sit out extra games because of how much he hated Coughlin.

What a fuggtard, why would you admit to something like that. I don't care how much you hate the guy, you're getting paid to do a job.

BigChiefFan · 01-21-2009, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Tom Coughlin is the kind of guy that can only coach in a place for so long...

By the end of his stay in Jacksonville the entire team hated him and basically refused to play for him. Fred Taylor admitted he would milk injuries and sit out extra games because of how much he hated Coughlin.

Then he's one of those prima-donna pricks, I was referring to. I realize people don't like hard-ass bosses, but I don't see Haley that way. I see him as somebody who does his job, but won't back down from some punk ass athlete who gets in his face. The millions of dollars and passion for the game should be enough to motivate these guys.

Extra Point · 01-21-2009, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Uh no, the OL coach was in reference to the guy bringing up Russ Grimm..

My gripe with Haley is you can be a tough coach and all that but players have to want to play for you, you can't make guys hate you.

It's about playing for the game, isn't it? Screw the coach. What are you bringing to the game, that asks from you, what the play is called? The game is what drives players. If the game itself doesn't drive the player, then his ass needs to ride the pine.

I'm sure Bowe is saying, "I'll have what he's having," regarding Fitzgerald.

anks106 · 01-21-2009, 05:21 PM

I figured I could add a Cardinals fans perspective here.

1) Some feel Haley won't work well with a non-successful team, but he did well with Arizona which wasn't exactly .. well Arizona.. when he got there. We were 5-11 and some of the players playing well now were not then. The coaches called Fitz a one trick pony when they got here because all he did was the jump ball, never caught it in stride or ran like he does after the tackle now. A lot of the Fitz who the world is finding out about comes from our coaches.

2) We aren't all that happy with Grimm right now. The numbers don't tell the story, our O-line has been pretty damn bad. Warner is excellent at getting rid of the ball which makes them look better, but our top 5 pick Levi looks like he might be bench-bound. our RG has sucked, plain and simple. our center has been good but is not a world-beater by any standards (and he was a lucky find, a UDFA), the only guys playing well are our left side (Mike Gandy who has surprised with his play and Reggie Wells, who played well in the 'let em off the hook' era).

3) Haley and Warner are known to argue with each other, but more is made of it than needed. Warner is a firey guy who gets upset whenever anything goes wrong, and more often than not he is upset at himself. He also is almost like a coach on the field, often times Haley will call the Blocking and let Warner call the rest of the play. Haley impressed me with his ability to let go of that control.

4) Us Cards fans don't much like Cris "Arizona is still the worst playoff team ever" Collinsworth

5) I wouldn't expect anything else from a guy going to the super bowl in 2 weeks, but this seems like more than just a I like my job here. “I really, and I’m not just saying this, I love my job here, I really do,” Haley said Monday, sitting in his office. “Everybody loves to get patted on the back or told they do a good job, but the attention isn’t something I am super comfortable with. I just told (head coach Ken Whisenhunt) I love my job here. I live in a great place, I have five kids and the thought of me moving or doing something else isn’t at the forefront for me.”

And for what its worth, most Cards fans don't want to lose Haley, we like him and as a whole think he would be successful as a H.C. and that its only a matter of time until he is one somewhere.

mikey23545 · 01-21-2009, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Tom Coughlin is the kind of guy that can only coach in a place for so long...

By the end of his stay in Jacksonville the entire team hated him and basically refused to play for him. Fred Taylor admitted he would milk injuries and sit out extra games because of how much he hated Coughlin.

Yeah, I could tell how much the Giant's players hated him right after that Super Bowl win....

01-21-2009, 03:47 PM
FringeNC MVP Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: NC Casino cash: $-1743986	Hailing Haley's grill work? Hold on there, Chiefs Hailing Haley's grill work? Hold on there, Chiefs Jan. 21, 2009 By Ray Ratto CBSSports.com Columnist The most intriguing story of the early Super Bowl prep is actually a sidebar, which is a weird enough way to start what might be the weirdest Super Bowl ever. It isn't the Arizona Cardinals overcoming decades of self-applied filth; that one was played out after they beat Carolina. (From Kurt Warner to T.O., Todd Haley has proven he won't back down to any player.) [Photo caption] It isn't Anquan Boldin, the Cardinals wide receiver who chose an odd time to pitch a nutty, and is already finding the best way to backtrack. It is, in fact, the sidebar to the Boldin story -- the fast-developing cult of Todd Haley. Haley, the Arizona offensive coordinator who snapped back at Boldin on the sidelines during the NFC title game, has become the new prettiest girl at the dance -- the coach who faces down the diva wide receiver by pitching an even more effusive nutty. Indeed, he is the first coach since his mentor, Bill Parcells, to announce loudly and publicly that he is not a "players' coach." And that is resonating in ways that Haley's work as the offensive coordinator of the pass-happy Cardinals never did. That is resonating so much, in fact, that he is now considered the next coach of the Kansas City Chiefs, which must come as a surprise to Herman Edwards, the current coach of the Kansas City Chiefs. Indeed, the diva receiver is already learning the joy of institutional recoil. Terrell Owens is wondering for the first time if Jerry Jones still has his back. Chad Johnson already took a hard scolding from the Cincinnati Bengals. Braylon Edwards, Steve Smith, Randy Moss ... they have all found the limits to their diva-hood, and the largely more conservative customer seems fine with it. But Haley has become the first assistant coach to actually benefit from striking back, and though it isn't his first time, the fact that he was willing to take time out of his busy schedule to strike back in the most public of venues makes him the new hot flavor. He and Owens had their issues during his time in Dallas, a fact that is getting him points now for telling truth to power when it wasn't popular. He also gets points for having gotten in Larry Fitzgerald's grill in the offseason and being acknowledged by Fitzgerald for having a considerable role in Fitzgerald's breakout. He has had his loud arguments with Kurt Warner and both have come out ahead for it. Edgerrin James hasn't liked the way he's been used, but he suddenly got the ball more often down the stretch when Arizona decided it actually needed more of a running game than Tim Hightower and J.J. Arrington could provide. And he really gets points for saying, as though he were channeling Parcells himself, that he isn't a players' coach. People like that, and as long as they're not the ones being barked at, they want to see more of it. The down side, of course, is that Parcells did his best yelling when he had good teams, and Haley hasn't been the first-yeller-in-chief yet. Were he to get the Chiefs job, he would be yelling at a bad roster, which goes only so far before it makes you look like a lunatic rather than a strong man. True, he and Larry Johnson probably wouldn't get on well, but Johnson's time in Kansas City always seems short anyway. In short, Haley looks great now because he and his employers are talented and on a roll, the best time to look tough. Even though the Cardinals are playing it down as best they can, the cult of Haley is rolling on at the best time for any cult to grow and flourish. But like Parcells, who had to turn around a bad Giants team to make his rep, we won't know if Todd Haley is the next big deal until he can take a bad team on his own and make it a winner under his name. And we will actually get a hint of that this week and next if he tries to play up his newfound image as though it were a brand. That would be a bad idea, and would expose him as being too manufactured and disingenuous. No, Haley needs someone in his face to be the caricature. What we'll discover next Sunday is not whether he can yell at Steve Breaston, because he probably can, but whether he can outthink a tougher defense than any he's faced this year. That goes a lot further than any vein in his neck ever will.
Posts: 10,234

01-21-2009, 04:44 PM	#16
talastan Manning, we're coming for you! Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Springfield, Mo Casino cash: $10004950	If Haley is indeed the HC prospect who would he look to for his DC? This position is the biggest concern IMO, almost as much as the HC position itself. Our Defense is going to need an incredible turnaround simply for the sake and morale of the players themselves IMO. __________________ Can we please just draft AND DEVELOP a QB - est. since 1983 Check out my band: Truett and the Traitors
Posts: 4,815

01-21-2009, 04:50 PM	#19
eazyb81 The Illuminati Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: the road less traveled Casino cash: $9984900	What the hell is going on? Have people just accepted that Chris Collinsworth has inside info, or have more sources come to the surface saying that we are expected to hire Haley as the head coach? Sorry if old news, I've been out of the loop all day.
Posts: 12,033

01-21-2009, 04:57 PM	#25
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-662950	Tom Coughlin is the kind of guy that can only coach in a place for so long... By the end of his stay in Jacksonville the entire team hated him and basically refused to play for him. Fred Taylor admitted he would milk injuries and sit out extra games because of how much he hated Coughlin.
Posts: 115,346

01-21-2009, 05:21 PM	#29
anks106 Rookie Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Nope Casino cash: $10004900	I figured I could add a Cardinals fans perspective here. 1) Some feel Haley won't work well with a non-successful team, but he did well with Arizona which wasn't exactly .. well Arizona.. when he got there. We were 5-11 and some of the players playing well now were not then. The coaches called Fitz a one trick pony when they got here because all he did was the jump ball, never caught it in stride or ran like he does after the tackle now. A lot of the Fitz who the world is finding out about comes from our coaches. 2) We aren't all that happy with Grimm right now. The numbers don't tell the story, our O-line has been pretty damn bad. Warner is excellent at getting rid of the ball which makes them look better, but our top 5 pick Levi looks like he might be bench-bound. our RG has sucked, plain and simple. our center has been good but is not a world-beater by any standards (and he was a lucky find, a UDFA), the only guys playing well are our left side (Mike Gandy who has surprised with his play and Reggie Wells, who played well in the 'let em off the hook' era). 3) Haley and Warner are known to argue with each other, but more is made of it than needed. Warner is a firey guy who gets upset whenever anything goes wrong, and more often than not he is upset at himself. He also is almost like a coach on the field, often times Haley will call the Blocking and let Warner call the rest of the play. Haley impressed me with his ability to let go of that control. 4) Us Cards fans don't much like Cris "Arizona is still the worst playoff team ever" Collinsworth 5) I wouldn't expect anything else from a guy going to the super bowl in 2 weeks, but this seems like more than just a I like my job here. “I really, and I’m not just saying this, I love my job here, I really do,” Haley said Monday, sitting in his office. “Everybody loves to get patted on the back or told they do a good job, but the attention isn’t something I am super comfortable with. I just told (head coach Ken Whisenhunt) I love my job here. I live in a great place, I have five kids and the thought of me moving or doing something else isn’t at the forefront for me.” And for what its worth, most Cards fans don't want to lose Haley, we like him and as a whole think he would be successful as a H.C. and that its only a matter of time until he is one somewhere.
Posts: 7