Chiefs Pioli offers an excuse - Page 2

Coogs · 03-22-2010, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

I think this is my favorite part:

Brought in guys he is familiar with?

'Hamas' Jenkins · 03-22-2010, 07:42 AM

It's pretty clear that he's married to the idea of his system. From an ideological standpoint, I understand. However, Pioli needs to be intellectually flexible enough to realize that as the dynamics of the game change, his system needs to change in order to maximize returns.

You can't assume that one approach to treating players or one defensive scheme is axiomatically better than another. It's dependent upon a multitude of factors.

Hammock Parties · 03-22-2010, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

It's pretty clear that he's married to the idea of his system. From an ideological standpoint, I understand. However, Pioli needs to be intellectually flexible enough to realize that as the dynamics of the game change, his system needs to change in order to maximize returns.

You can't assume that one approach to treating players or one defensive scheme is axiomatically better than another. It's dependent upon a multitude of factors.

You could have just said "Pioli is dumb."

'Hamas' Jenkins · 03-22-2010, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

You could have just said "Pioli is dumb."

I don't know if he's dumb. I think he's rigid to the point of making stupid decisions. Time will tell if he learns.

Extra Point · 03-22-2010, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

You can't assume that one approach to treating players or one defensive scheme is axiomatically better than another. It's dependent upon a multitude of factors.

Like a bunch of 4-3 guys playing 3-4?

Drain, rinse, and don't repeat.

**alpha_omega** · 03-22-2010, 07:58 AM

I can't argue with what he says here.

Quote:

...in Kansas City, I was starting at ground zero,...

DaWolf · 03-22-2010, 10:09 AM

People usually go with what they know and do best. I think the critical thing is if you go with something, you make sure all of your organization is on the same page and all in. If Pioli feels better about the 3-4 system and the flexibility that provides, and that's his long term plan, then he should stick with it.

I think we've seen it before. Vermeil showed up here year one and took a team that Gunther had "built" to be a big, powerful team which runs the ball and uses the play action pass, and immediately tried to turn them into a quick, finesse type team that scores quickly and often. Edwards came in and made sure he dismantled the offense to slow down, and played his Tampa 2 scheme that he's familiar with.

The failure has always been in the execution. Vermeil paid little attention to defense and the two guys who he brought in were ill equipped to have autonomy over that side of the ball. You bring in a guy with the stature of Gregg Williams or someone like that and hand over the reigns of the defense to them, not jokes like GRob and Gunther. If you are Herm, you don't hand the reins of an offense over to an OL coach or have a guy who likes to play physical man coverage and blitz call a zone heavy cover 2 scheme. If you are Todd Haley, you don't keep around an OC that doesn't mesh with you, only to fire him and change the playbook two weeks before the season, and hire a DC that isn't necessarily a very good 3-4 DC.

Pioli is going to have his system just like Parcells and Holmgren have their systems. The bottom line is going to come down to how they draft, so if Pioli doesn't improve in that department then it's pointless. But probably the best thing he's done since taking over is bringing in people who all seem to finally be on the same page, and for the first time in a decade, I can look at our OC and DC and not be embarrassed by one or the other...

Hammock Parties · 03-22-2010, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaWolf

for the first time in a decade, I can look at our OC and DC and not be embarrassed by one or the other...

Really?

Fritz88 · 03-22-2010, 07:47 AM

Pioli is the ****ing WIN

Hammock Parties · 03-22-2010, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Pioli assembled the talent that enabled the Patriots to play in four Super Bowls

PHEW! I was worried it was Belichick. Now we know.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 03-22-2010, 08:02 AM

At this point, I'm ambivalent about this offseason. The Chiefs spent wisely on their outside FA acquisitions, even if I believe they overpaid to retain a lot of poor players. I'm glad they didn't overpay for a guy like Dansby, who isn't a good run defender, and although I liked Dwan Edwards as a 5 tech, he's not worth anywhere near 4.5 million a year.

This FA market is flat reeruned.

Ultimately, the success or failure of this regime will depend on the draft. They failed miserably in year one. If this draft is filled with reaches and poor value, then that is a much worse indicator than not signing Dansby, Dunta Robinson, Antrel Rolle, etc.

**Mr. Flopnuts** · 03-22-2010, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

At this point, I'm ambivalent about this offseason. The Chiefs spent wisely on their outside FA acquisitions, even if I believe they overpaid to retain a lot of poor players. I'm glad they didn't overpay for a guy like Dansby, who isn't a good run defender, and although I liked Dwan Edwards as a 5 tech, he's not worth anywhere near 4.5 million a year.

This FA market is flat reeruned.

Ultimately, the success or failure of this regime will depend on the draft. They failed miserably in year one. If this draft is filled with reaches and poor value, then that is a much worse indicator than not signing Dansby, Dunta Robinson, Antrel Rolle, etc.

Great post. Sums my thoughts up precisely.

Hammock Parties · 03-22-2010, 10:37 AM

Quote:

They've drafted poorly, they've never built a central core of talent, they've had little to no stability on the coaching staff.

So far Pioli has seen that those traditions continue.

Quote:

that means Haley gets years to put it together

I bet you he isn't even here in three years. He'll be scapegoat #1.

keg in kc · 03-22-2010, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

So far Pioli has seen that those traditions continue.

I bet you he isn't even here in three years. He'll be scapegoat #1.

You're proving my point about fans being fickle. 12 months later we know everything. No sense of time.

Hammock Parties · 03-22-2010, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keg in kc

You're proving my point about fans being fickle. 12 months later we know everything. No sense of time.

Sorry, Keg, the time was last year. And they ****ed last year up.

So far they are no better than all the other clowns that had the Chiefs swirling round the bowl.

03-22-2010, 07:42 AM	#2
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7149572	It's pretty clear that he's married to the idea of his system. From an ideological standpoint, I understand. However, Pioli needs to be intellectually flexible enough to realize that as the dynamics of the game change, his system needs to change in order to maximize returns. You can't assume that one approach to treating players or one defensive scheme is axiomatically better than another. It's dependent upon a multitude of factors. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 75,083

03-22-2010, 10:09 AM	#7
DaWolf Cry havoc... Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10007725	People usually go with what they know and do best. I think the critical thing is if you go with something, you make sure all of your organization is on the same page and all in. If Pioli feels better about the 3-4 system and the flexibility that provides, and that's his long term plan, then he should stick with it. I think we've seen it before. Vermeil showed up here year one and took a team that Gunther had "built" to be a big, powerful team which runs the ball and uses the play action pass, and immediately tried to turn them into a quick, finesse type team that scores quickly and often. Edwards came in and made sure he dismantled the offense to slow down, and played his Tampa 2 scheme that he's familiar with. The failure has always been in the execution. Vermeil paid little attention to defense and the two guys who he brought in were ill equipped to have autonomy over that side of the ball. You bring in a guy with the stature of Gregg Williams or someone like that and hand over the reigns of the defense to them, not jokes like GRob and Gunther. If you are Herm, you don't hand the reins of an offense over to an OL coach or have a guy who likes to play physical man coverage and blitz call a zone heavy cover 2 scheme. If you are Todd Haley, you don't keep around an OC that doesn't mesh with you, only to fire him and change the playbook two weeks before the season, and hire a DC that isn't necessarily a very good 3-4 DC. Pioli is going to have his system just like Parcells and Holmgren have their systems. The bottom line is going to come down to how they draft, so if Pioli doesn't improve in that department then it's pointless. But probably the best thing he's done since taking over is bringing in people who all seem to finally be on the same page, and for the first time in a decade, I can look at our OC and DC and not be embarrassed by one or the other...
Posts: 6,798

03-22-2010, 07:47 AM	#9
Fritz88 Custom User Title Join Date: Nov 2008 Casino cash: $8505943	Pioli is the ****ing WIN
Posts: 12,706

03-22-2010, 08:02 AM	#11
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7149572	At this point, I'm ambivalent about this offseason. The Chiefs spent wisely on their outside FA acquisitions, even if I believe they overpaid to retain a lot of poor players. I'm glad they didn't overpay for a guy like Dansby, who isn't a good run defender, and although I liked Dwan Edwards as a 5 tech, he's not worth anywhere near 4.5 million a year. This FA market is flat reeruned. Ultimately, the success or failure of this regime will depend on the draft. They failed miserably in year one. If this draft is filled with reaches and poor value, then that is a much worse indicator than not signing Dansby, Dunta Robinson, Antrel Rolle, etc. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 75,083