Francona out in Chowda land???

[Carlota69]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/0...-francona.html

The Latest On Terry Francona
By Mike Axisa [September 30 at 12:18pm CST]

As we learned last night and early this morning, the Red Sox and long-time manager Terry Francona are parting ways. Let's round up the latest on both the man and the team...

* Brian MacPherson of The Providence Journal says that Francona and owners John Henry and Tom Werner all left Fenway Park after a 10am ET meeting this morning without making a comment. The meeting was held to discuss the team's future, and no official announcement has been made about Francona.
* Mike Lynch of WCTB TV in Boston reports that Red Sox GM Theo Epstein told management that Francona wasn't working out six weeks ago because of a "lack of urgency." Francona was voted out 3-0 a few weeks later.
* Nick Cafardo of The Boston Globe says this is a truly mutual split, however (Twitter link). Francona would have been willing to stay on if some issues were worked out.
* There's a non-zero chance that Francona lands with the White Sox, but Danny Knobler of CBSSports.com reports (on Twitter) that they won't pay big money for a manager unless it's Tony LaRussa.
* In another tweet, Knobler says that an Epstein-Francona package seemed possible for the Cubs at one point, but he doesn't think it's likely now.
* Dan Connolly of The Baltimore Sun doesn't see Francona managing the Orioles next year for several reasons.

[chefsos]

I think it was time for a fresh start on all sides. Either he was just done dealing with the pricks in the clubhouse, or he had a hand in letting them become pricks, or a little of both. Doesn't matter much. 8 years is a long time for any manager today.

[Deberg_1990]

Crazy...any city outside of NY and Boston, with this guys credentials, he would be a Manager for life.

[JD10367]

Originally Posted by Carlota69

ok, well I wouldnt of put it past red Sox fans...lmao...

**** you. And learn proper English for Christ's sake.

And, for the record, almost every fan I've heard from today--both friends on Facebook, and strangers on talk radio--are pissed that Francona is gone, and are blaming Theo Epstein and Red Sox management for the whole debacle.

On his first day as manager, Francona had Pedro Martinez leave the park early while the game was in progress. He then had to balance primadonnas like Manny, Ortiz, and Schilling, while dealing with useless signings like Lugo, Renteria, Daisuke, and finally Crawford and Lackey (just to name a few). He juggled both the fragile rich egos on his team as well as the Boston media and the rabid fanbase, and delivered two WS trophies. His reward was to be shown the door by the very people (Theo and Sox ownership) who created the problem in the first place with seasons of horrible signings.

Red Sox ownership, Theo, and a good number of the players can go **** themselves. The inmates are running the asylum. If we were all overpaid and did crap work, we'd be on the street in a second; instead, these bozos are keeping the bad eggs and getting rid of the manager. ****ing brilliant.

Meanwhile, you have the Tampa Bay Rays, who are defining the word "clutch" and doing so with a total payroll around the size of Daisuke Matsuzaka's signing bonus. Good ****ing grief.

I wish Francona success in his next job (which I'm sure will be easier and more relaxing than his last one). And I honestly no longer give a shit if the Red Sox win or lose, because they've proven to be unworthy of fandom. I root for the laundry to a certain extent, and this team and ownership has passed the limit. Eat shit and die, John Henry and Larry Lucchino and Theo Epstein.

[booger]

Francona and Pioli are close pals. Watch out Haley.

[booger]

think they promote Demarlo Hale JD?

[DeezNutz]

Trey Hillman is available. TLR was probably going to be on the market, too, but STL's playoff birth probably ensured a contract extension.

Congrats, Cards fans!

[booger]

Too bad the bosox pitching coach went to the Jays last year. He'd be a good replacement. John Ferrell or something like that.

[chiefzilla1501]

Wow. Dumb move and any Sox fan that likes this is a ****ing idiot.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Demonpenz

yeah it is a joke. The players didn't play well down the stretch. As frustrating as it is the manager means very little in baseball.

I think the managing means pretty little if you're talking about the Yankees. I still believe Joe Torre was one of the most ridiculously overrated managers in the history of the game. There's enough stuff you can do "by the book" that calling a good game is much less strategic than it used to be.

The one interesting thing about baseball is that you see quite a few managers move from team to team and become extremely successful. Pinella, Leyland, Charlie Manuel, Tony LaRussa, Jack McKeon repeat success on several different teams and, in each of these cases, take bad teams and make them good. That's something you don't really see a whole lot in the NFL. I'm not sure if that's because NFL coaches become complacent or because schemes change so much, but it happens. There's something to be said for that. I think between managing people, being smart about lineup/pitching decisions, coaching up players... and I think with less steroids, teams are being forced to play more small ball, which increases the importance of a manager.

[Pioli Zombie]

Originally Posted by whoman69

I was surprised how much Red Sox fans are still playing the Curse of the Bambino martyr even after winning two championships. Its gotta be frustrating working under such conditions. Most Red Sox fans didn't want to let Francona go until they heard that he didn't want to be there anymore.

Yup. Boston fans are the biggest group of bandwagon crybabies in the country. 7 parades in 10 years and they still think everything sucks. Now people who didn't watch hockey for twenty years are all Bruins fans. I still love the teams, but I hate the fans there. Go on www.weei.com sometime and listen to it. They'll be going over the same pitching move for 12 hours.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by Pioli Zombie

Yup. Boston fans are the biggest group of bandwagon crybabies in the country. 7 parades in 10 years and they still think everything sucks. Now people who didn't watch hockey for twenty years are all Bruins fans. I still love the teams, but I hate the fans there. Go on www.weei.com sometime and listen to it. They'll be going over the same pitching move for 12 hours.

Pink Sock Nation.

[Stewie]

Originally Posted by Bump

hell, if he came to KC and won just 80 games in one season he'd be a legend forever. Forget about playoffs or a world series ring.

I'm a Royals' homer, but I don't think 80 wins next year is out of the realm of possibility. They just need to get the starting pitching straightened out. The everyday players really started to put it together the last couple of months.

[JD10367]

Originally Posted by booger

think they promote Demarlo Hale JD?

Doubtful. Knowing this ownership they'll try to do something splashy, like steal Cashman from the Yankees and see if Joe Torre will come back to coaching.

Frankly, what I think the Red Sox honestly need is to suck. To suck long and hard. To the point where New Englanders no longer fixate on the team and start to ignore it, and attendance drops, and the giant corporation that is the Red Sox loses merchandising money and TV revenue. Once the team is in disarray and no longer the focus, they might actually be able to hire decent low-profile people and get something done. Right now, it's like trying to have your best sex in front of a live TV audience. There's no way, next season, anything they do will turn out to be anything but a giant circus.

[JD10367]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

The one interesting thing about baseball is that you see quite a few managers move from team to team and become extremely successful. Pinella, Leyland, Charlie Manuel, Tony LaRussa, Jack McKeon repeat success on several different teams and, in each of these cases, take bad teams and make them good. That's something you don't really see a whole lot in the NFL.

It's a double-edged sword. Baseball is the one sport where clubhouse chemistry can make a huge impact, if teammates respect (not like, but respect) each other and everyone tries 100% and the manager actually manages. But with their guaranteed contracts and no salary cap it's also the sport where a manager is most hamstrung by the organization. Francona may have lost his clubhouse, but it wasn't because HE sucks, it's because the PLAYERS suck, and they run the asylum. The next manager will still be stuck with a fat Beckett and a useless Lackey and an underperforming Crawford and all the other baggage. Until and unless management holds the players accountable (and not the manager), things will not change. It's typical of giant mismanaged businesses that they blame the "little guy" (in thie case, Francona) instead of addressing the real issue (their own incompetence). I think the Red Sox have had more "dead money" on their payroll than many teams have for an ENTIRE payroll, and yet they'd rather fire Francona than fire the players responsible for the biggest collapse in baseball history. Makes no sense to me.

There's always a question about whether a coach should be a hard-ass vs. a softie. Maybe Francona WAS too nice early on and, thus, his hard-ass act fell on deaf ears. But I still blame the players for not playing. No matter how well (or how poorly) Bill Belichick coaches the Patriots, the players still have to go play; if they play poorly, the team will lose no matter how he coaches. So I find it hard to put real fault on Francona when you have closers blowing saves and starting pitchers sucking balls and outfielders not making plays on playable balls and baserunners making bad decisions compounded by bad positional coaches waving them home and errors in the infield and and and...

[MIAdragon]

Originally Posted by booger

think they promote Demarlo Hale JD?

I think Demarlo would be an ideal candidate but he was part of the staff that lost the clubhouse (and the alleged reason for letting Tito go) so I don't see how you can Blame Tito and let everyone else slide. IMO the need a new voice, someone young to come in a kick some ass. The last time we needed a manager after Little the final 2 candidates were Tito and Joe Maddon. I have no doubt the FO will come up with someone that can get the job done.

I can see Theo also jumping ship here in the next week or two.

Get ready for a healthy roster shakeup as well. Change like this sucks.