Chiefs Mellinger: Chiefs are built for an era thats past..... - Page 2

Deberg_1990 · 09-20-2012, 06:51 AM

Babb and Mellinger, just killin it this week.

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/09/19...is-on-the.html

The talk this week is about Scott Pioli’s competence, Clark Hunt’s commitment and Romeo Crennel’s laid-back leadership, and that’s all good and relevant in many ways, but it also misses a very important point that can be summed up something like this:
Even at full strength, the Chiefs are metaphorically not only running a race on a tightrope but doing it directly into the wind.

Matt Cassel’s limitations have been exaggerated and dramatized, a topic as omnipresent around here as potholes, but the argument for him being anything better than a bottom-quarter passer in the NFL is difficult to make.

That’s frustrating enough on its own, but it becomes a game-changer when you put context to the bigger plan on which Pioli is essentially betting his career in Kansas City. The organizational hope — or foundation, because the whole thing crumbles if they’re wrong here — is that Cassel is good enough to facilitate a championship team.

Even a distracted child can realize, just by watching games, that the NFL is a passing league. But when you look at some plain and simple numbers, you will dismiss any notion that the Chiefs are making chicken salad out of something much less appetizing.
Actually, they’re giving their fans the same old meal.
The numbers are clear, and they’re not encouraging.

________________________________________
The forward pass got a late start in American football, banned for the sport’s first few decades, and in a lot of ways has been playing catch-up ever since. Even now, when the NFL’s three most expensive positions are the quarterback, the left tackle who protects the quarterback and the defensive end who sacks the quarterback, our clichés are stuck in the days of black-and-white television.

Do a quick Google search on all the coaches who say they have to establish the run and stop the run.

And then digest some statistics that say they’re all full of hooey.
“Everybody says you gotta stop the run, stop the run,” Chiefs linebacker Derrick Johnson says. “But you gotta stop the pass, too.”

Last year, the 10 teams that ran the ball most effectively (by yards per carry) went a combined 82-78. The 10 teams that threw the ball most effectively (by passer rating) went a combined 113-47.

The 10 teams that stopped the run most effectively went a combined 83-77. The 10 teams that stopped the pass most effectively went a combined 96-64.
Put another way: The teams that excelled in the running game won as many times as they lost, while the teams that excelled in the passing game won enough to make the playoffs. That’s the whole thing right there: mediocre or successful, fired or given a raise.
This is more than the anecdotal evidence often used about the Giants winning the Super Bowl last year with the league’s worst running game. And it is particularly timely this week, because the Saints and Chiefs rank fifth and sixth in yards per carry, respectively, and have yet to win a game.

Turnovers have been a particular problem for both teams, but again, the biggest chunk of that problem is coming through the air: Matt Cassel has thrown three interceptions and fumbled twice, while Drew Brees has thrown four interceptions and fumbled once.
Nearly 70 percent of the yards gained in the NFL this season have come through the air, which would be the highest rate in league history.

Perhaps the new maxim should be, “We need to establish the pass and stop the pass.”
“Kind of, because you need to make plays in the passing game,” Charles says. “When you throw the ball down the field, more often those are bigger plays than running plays.”
This is all particularly discouraging when studied through the prism of the Chiefs, and not just as it pertains to the health of defensive backs Eric Berry, Brandon Flowers and Kendrick Lewis. Over the offseason, the Chiefs downgraded at cornerback, going from Brandon Carr to Stanford Routt, while improving at running back, by signing Peyton Hillis to pair with Charles. On top of that, so much of the Chiefs’ focus through recent drafts has been on finding defensive linemen to stop the run.

Meanwhile, if you allow for improvement from young players like Jacksonville’s Blaine Gabbert and Cleveland’s Brandon Weeden, it’s not a stretch to say the Chiefs have one of the three worst quarterback situations in football.

The NFL world is zigging right, and the Chiefs are zagging left.
Increasingly, it looks like they’re being left behind.
________________________________________
One of Pioli’s biggest successes in Kansas City has been surrounding Cassel with one of the league’s better groups of skills players. There just aren’t many teams that can match the Chiefs’ crop of receivers, running backs and tight ends.

So it’s not that they’re ignoring the pass. Bowe is making close to $10 million this year, and new tight end Kevin Boss made a remarkable touchdown catch against the Falcons — and then was injured in Buffalo. It’s just that they are increasingly emphasizing the run, which by definition increasingly de-emphasizes the pass.

When Todd Haley was hired as head coach, he went from designing a pass-first offense with Kurt Warner and Larry Fitzgerald to a power running game featuring Charles. Cassel’s success in 2010 is often credited to former offensive coordinator Charlie Weis, but it’s just as likely that Haley benefitted from defenses having to focus so much on the run (as well as string of would-be interceptions dropped by defenders). Crennel is now the head coach, his reputation in large part anchored by coordinating defenses that stopped the run in New England.

There is a bit of a chicken-and-egg aspect to all of this — of course the Chiefs would love to have an elite quarterback; but since they lack one, they are trying to create and emphasize other strengths.

But it’s hard to find a team anywhere else in the NFL that’s stressing the run as hard as the Chiefs. And it’s impossible to find another time in the league’s history where doing so is less important.

suds79 · 09-20-2012, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoMoChief

Our 2 best LB's are going to be on the downside of their careers by the time our offense is ever worth a crap...whenever we get a real QB.

I can understand the concern here because I think there is pressure to get a real QB while this core, who is suppose to be good (take that for what you will), is still young.

However when I think you take a step back and realize that all these other guys just don't matter as much in today's game, it's not a big deal.

Once we finally get that QB, we then become eligible to be good again. And hopefully the new GM will have brought in some players to compliment the QB.

Essentially who cares about these guys? All you should care about is us getting a franchise QB. The rest will take care of itself.

**the Talking Can** · 09-20-2012, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

WRs - being honest, McCluster MIGHT be the best WR on the team. Best route runner and better hands than Bowe.

Black Bob · 09-20-2012, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2
WRs - being honest, McCluster MIGHT be the best WR on the team. Best route runner and better hands than Bowe.

I think he has proven he can be successful in a Welker type role if we go that route. He does have better hands and run better routes than Bowe. I could see him putting up better numbers than Bowe soon.... maybe?

Chiefshrink · 09-20-2012, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackBob

We need leadership in a bad way.

Here is the main problem. Romeo is not a babysitter rah rah type and you can't look at this Chiefs team and pick out that main offensive or defensive leader on either side of the ball like a Drew Brees or Ray Lewis type of player that will lead or motivate. I'm not trying to compare the talent here, just leadership in general.

It looks like everyone is waiting on everyone else to take the lead and Romeo sure isn't going to do it. He will teach and give you the game plan but he isn't going to motivate and lead that's for sure.

Who will step up ???

BoneKrusher · 09-20-2012, 07:48 AM

setting this Martyball style team up in today's pass happy league would be like setting your kid up with an 8 track instead of an ipod.

Black Bob · 09-20-2012, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefshrink

Here is the main problem. Romeo is not a babysitter rah rah type and you can't look at this Chiefs team and pick out that main offensive or defensive leader on either side of the ball like a Drew Brees or Ray Lewis type of player that will lead or motivate. I'm not trying to compare the talent here, just leadership in general.

It looks like everyone is waiting on everyone else to take the lead and Romeo sure isn't going to do it. He will teach and give you the game plan but he isn't going to motivate and lead that's for sure.

Who will step up ???

I think Berry can do it. They just need to put him in a normal SS roles rather than use him as a hybrid LBer. They are asking him to do too much right now. On offense, we have no one this year imo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoneKrusher

setting this Martyball style team up in today's pass happy league would be like setting your kid up with an 8 track instead of an ipod.

Yep and it's really sad. Everything the owners did geared the league to be a passing game only. It was all about money as it brought more interest and made the game more exciting. The DBs have to back off and the quarterbacks can't be touched.

kcxiv · 09-20-2012, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackBob

I think he has proven he can be successful in a Welker type role if we go that route. He does have better hands and run better routes than Bowe. I could see him putting up better numbers than Bowe soon.... maybe?

No way he puts up numbers like Bowe. I don't think his body can handle the pounding. Plus There Kano way this team has 2 1000 yard recievers not with mark throwing the ball.

Molitoth · 09-20-2012, 07:54 AM

This article is spot on.

Black Bob · 09-20-2012, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fruit Ninja

No way he puts up numbers like Bowe. I don't think his body can handle the pounding. Plus There Kano way this team has 2 1000 yard recievers not with mark throwing the ball.

I think it's alot easier to put up big numbers in the Welker sort of way than the Bowe sort of way. It's two completely different sort of styles. I could see it happening. Especially if we keep losing. They might start phasing Bowe out and preparing for the future. Kind of like the way New England is phasing Welker out.

Deberg_1990 · 09-20-2012, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackBob

I think he has proven he can be successful in a Welker type role if we go that route. He does have better hands and run better routes than Bowe. I could see him putting up better numbers than Bowe soon.... maybe?

Well, obviously McCluster is smaller, quicker and faster than Bowe…so hes quicker in and out of cuts. Bowe has always had seperation problems. Don’t know why they don’t just run more of a West Coast short passing offense with Bowe and Baldwin? If I remember right, Bowe got most of his biggest gains in 2010 by catching short slants and using his strength to breakaway from defenders for long gains. Hes done that a lot throughout his career.

Dragonocho · 09-20-2012, 08:01 AM

Pioli seems to forget that the Chiefs of 2012 will never play the Chiefs of 2011. He's not looking external to counter what other teams are doing or to follow emerging trends like the forward pass - nicely played Sam.
This is the same crap the Royals do next door - improve the roster annually, sell tickets on the hope that this will produce a winner but it never does because they do so at a slower rate than competitors are improving theirs.

Black Bob · 09-20-2012, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990

Well, obviously McCluster is smaller, quicker and faster than Bowe…so hes quicker in and out of cuts. Bowe has always had seperation problems. Don’t know why they don’t just run more of a West Coast short passing offense with Bowe and Baldwin? If I remember right, Bowe got most of his biggest gains in 2010 by catching short slants and using his strength to breakaway from defenders for long gains. Hes done that a lot throughout his career.

I agree. Weis had it going on with the short passing game.

Chiefnj2 · 09-20-2012, 08:04 AM

Pioli is probably thinking that in the last 3 years the Jets (2x), San Fran, and to a lesser degree Baltimore have all had run first, strong D teams that made it far in the playoffs (and in some cases should have won the conference championship games). Yes, it isn't as popular and there is a much smaller window for error, but it can still be effective at times.

KC_Lee · 09-20-2012, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Pioli is probably thinking that in the last 3 years the Jets (2x), San Fran, and to a lesser degree Baltimore have all had run first, strong D teams that made it far in the playoffs (and in some cases should have won the conference championship games). Yes, it isn't as popular and there is a much smaller window for error, but it can still be effective at times.

I agree with one caveat; this only works if you have a strong coaching staff that can prepare a team for Sunday and then make in game adjustments as needed.

Right now this HC and staff seem to be lacking either of those qualifications.

**notorious** · 09-20-2012, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackBob

I am fine with that. Aside from Berry, we need better stars imo. I see alot of role players. We need leadership in a bad way. Hopefully, we can get a QB and a MLB that are real leaders. That has got to be where we start.

That's what I don't understand. Pioli drafted team captains, and the right 53. Where the hell are the leaders?

09-20-2012, 06:51 AM
Deberg_1990 In Search of a Life Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Antonio Tx. Casino cash: $294454	Mellinger: Chiefs are built for an era thats past..... Babb and Mellinger, just killin it this week. http://www.kansascity.com/2012/09/19...is-on-the.html The talk this week is about Scott Pioli’s competence, Clark Hunt’s commitment and Romeo Crennel’s laid-back leadership, and that’s all good and relevant in many ways, but it also misses a very important point that can be summed up something like this: Even at full strength, the Chiefs are metaphorically not only running a race on a tightrope but doing it directly into the wind. Matt Cassel’s limitations have been exaggerated and dramatized, a topic as omnipresent around here as potholes, but the argument for him being anything better than a bottom-quarter passer in the NFL is difficult to make. That’s frustrating enough on its own, but it becomes a game-changer when you put context to the bigger plan on which Pioli is essentially betting his career in Kansas City. The organizational hope — or foundation, because the whole thing crumbles if they’re wrong here — is that Cassel is good enough to facilitate a championship team. Even a distracted child can realize, just by watching games, that the NFL is a passing league. But when you look at some plain and simple numbers, you will dismiss any notion that the Chiefs are making chicken salad out of something much less appetizing. Actually, they’re giving their fans the same old meal. The numbers are clear, and they’re not encouraging. ________________________________________ The forward pass got a late start in American football, banned for the sport’s first few decades, and in a lot of ways has been playing catch-up ever since. Even now, when the NFL’s three most expensive positions are the quarterback, the left tackle who protects the quarterback and the defensive end who sacks the quarterback, our clichés are stuck in the days of black-and-white television. Do a quick Google search on all the coaches who say they have to establish the run and stop the run. And then digest some statistics that say they’re all full of hooey. “Everybody says you gotta stop the run, stop the run,” Chiefs linebacker Derrick Johnson says. “But you gotta stop the pass, too.” Last year, the 10 teams that ran the ball most effectively (by yards per carry) went a combined 82-78. The 10 teams that threw the ball most effectively (by passer rating) went a combined 113-47. The 10 teams that stopped the run most effectively went a combined 83-77. The 10 teams that stopped the pass most effectively went a combined 96-64. Put another way: The teams that excelled in the running game won as many times as they lost, while the teams that excelled in the passing game won enough to make the playoffs. That’s the whole thing right there: mediocre or successful, fired or given a raise. This is more than the anecdotal evidence often used about the Giants winning the Super Bowl last year with the league’s worst running game. And it is particularly timely this week, because the Saints and Chiefs rank fifth and sixth in yards per carry, respectively, and have yet to win a game. Turnovers have been a particular problem for both teams, but again, the biggest chunk of that problem is coming through the air: Matt Cassel has thrown three interceptions and fumbled twice, while Drew Brees has thrown four interceptions and fumbled once. Nearly 70 percent of the yards gained in the NFL this season have come through the air, which would be the highest rate in league history. Perhaps the new maxim should be, “We need to establish the pass and stop the pass.” “Kind of, because you need to make plays in the passing game,” Charles says. “When you throw the ball down the field, more often those are bigger plays than running plays.” This is all particularly discouraging when studied through the prism of the Chiefs, and not just as it pertains to the health of defensive backs Eric Berry, Brandon Flowers and Kendrick Lewis. Over the offseason, the Chiefs downgraded at cornerback, going from Brandon Carr to Stanford Routt, while improving at running back, by signing Peyton Hillis to pair with Charles. On top of that, so much of the Chiefs’ focus through recent drafts has been on finding defensive linemen to stop the run. Meanwhile, if you allow for improvement from young players like Jacksonville’s Blaine Gabbert and Cleveland’s Brandon Weeden, it’s not a stretch to say the Chiefs have one of the three worst quarterback situations in football. The NFL world is zigging right, and the Chiefs are zagging left. Increasingly, it looks like they’re being left behind. ________________________________________ One of Pioli’s biggest successes in Kansas City has been surrounding Cassel with one of the league’s better groups of skills players. There just aren’t many teams that can match the Chiefs’ crop of receivers, running backs and tight ends. So it’s not that they’re ignoring the pass. Bowe is making close to $10 million this year, and new tight end Kevin Boss made a remarkable touchdown catch against the Falcons — and then was injured in Buffalo. It’s just that they are increasingly emphasizing the run, which by definition increasingly de-emphasizes the pass. When Todd Haley was hired as head coach, he went from designing a pass-first offense with Kurt Warner and Larry Fitzgerald to a power running game featuring Charles. Cassel’s success in 2010 is often credited to former offensive coordinator Charlie Weis, but it’s just as likely that Haley benefitted from defenses having to focus so much on the run (as well as string of would-be interceptions dropped by defenders). Crennel is now the head coach, his reputation in large part anchored by coordinating defenses that stopped the run in New England. There is a bit of a chicken-and-egg aspect to all of this — of course the Chiefs would love to have an elite quarterback; but since they lack one, they are trying to create and emphasize other strengths. But it’s hard to find a team anywhere else in the NFL that’s stressing the run as hard as the Chiefs. And it’s impossible to find another time in the league’s history where doing so is less important.
Posts: 68,458

09-20-2012, 07:48 AM	#20
BoneKrusher That's Right Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Bluefield, Virginia Casino cash: $9976645	setting this Martyball style team up in today's pass happy league would be like setting your kid up with an 8 track instead of an ipod. __________________ "MaHomes/MaAuto"
Posts: 7,333

09-20-2012, 07:54 AM	#23
Molitoth Mahomes Fanboi Join Date: Apr 2004 Casino cash: $244969	This article is spot on.
Posts: 20,293

09-20-2012, 08:01 AM	#26
Dragonocho Artist of the Bob Ross School Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Lansing Casino cash: $10000533	Pioli seems to forget that the Chiefs of 2012 will never play the Chiefs of 2011. He's not looking external to counter what other teams are doing or to follow emerging trends like the forward pass - nicely played Sam. This is the same crap the Royals do next door - improve the roster annually, sell tickets on the hope that this will produce a winner but it never does because they do so at a slower rate than competitors are improving theirs.
Posts: 884

09-20-2012, 08:04 AM	#28
Chiefnj2 In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Casino cash: $6674388	Pioli is probably thinking that in the last 3 years the Jets (2x), San Fran, and to a lesser degree Baltimore have all had run first, strong D teams that made it far in the playoffs (and in some cases should have won the conference championship games). Yes, it isn't as popular and there is a much smaller window for error, but it can still be effective at times. __________________ Mismanaging the clock.
Posts: 22,540