It's been a long time coming. Adiós.

[OnTheWarpath15]

It's time for me to bow out. It's been almost 10 years, and I'm tired.

Tired of the false narratives. Tired of people arguing the poster instead of the post. Tired of discussing football with people who favor excuses over evidence. Tired of wasting time talking about an organization that hasn't won a playoff game in the lifetime of a college senior. Tired of watching other great posters leaving entirely or posting less, weakening the Football IQ this place was known for 5-10 years ago.

I know posting a thread instead of just walking away will open the door for many to take their cheap shots - we all know who they are - and if you don't, just wait. They'll show themselves. Those of you that know me privately know this has been building for a long time.

With all that said, I'll say what I've always said: This team has talent, but will continually fall short as long as they keep thinking you can win in the postseason consistently with average QB play. You don't put enough pressure on the opposing defense, and it puts too much pressure on your defense - if they don't have a near-perfect day, you lose.

Peters and Conley were great picks and should make an impact in the years to come. Should be fun to watch. (What? According to some, I NEVER say anything positive - just another false narrative) While I doubt he'll get his shot, I'd like to see if Murray can be that franchise guy, or if he fell for reasons other than what people here assume - namely, his height and injury history. Hopefully they get Houston signed long-term, because if they don't they are in deep, deep shit. The defense tends to carry this team, and Houston is the most important cog in said defense.

I've made a lot of great friends here that are still friends to this day, and will continue to be. This place was awesome when it was more community based - when there would be gatherings, tailgates, etc. Now, it's littered with trolls that take advantage of the anonymity of the internet and would never show their face in public. That attitude has weakened this place considerably, IMHO.

For those of you I call a friend, we'll be in touch. If anyone that isn't already a friend privately or on Facebook/Twitter wants to continue to keep in touch, I'll keep my PM's open for a week or so.

Thanks, Kyle. It was fun for a while. Queue the "well, bye/sour grapes" posts in 3...2...1.

[keg in kc]

If your rebuttal to a comment that a player isn't good enough to turn a team into a contender is saying that the defense might be good enough to carry him to a title, you should probably listen to what you're telling yourself about your confidence in said player.

[BossChief]

I always wonder why some posters say

"Alex Smith can't win without a great team around him."

"He's only as good as the players around him"

He doesn't raise the level of play of those around him"

Well, if that's the case (and I agree it is) then we should be a formidable team going forward because he has a bomb ass defense, a great set of running backs, explosive receivers and the second best TE in football.

All he has to do is distribute the ball consistently to the open man and let his team make plays.

The team around him on offense has ELITE speed everywhere

Maclin is the slowest skill position player we have (outside of Gray and Avant)

Think about that.

Wilson, Conley, Charles, Davis and Thomas all run legit 4.3 40s. Not too many defenses have the team speed to cover all that raw speed.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

I don't think it is absurd. I think he is mostly correct. I think the days of a Trent Dilfer or Brad Johnson being a bystander QB while the D does it all are long gone.

Some of you guys are living in a fantasy world in terms of QB's. The bottom line is that for most NFL teams, defense, special teams and perimeter weapons with a solid, non-turnover prone QB will be their best bet to win a championship.

You know, like Russell Wilson.

College QB's aren't taught to read defenses, so it'll be rare that a QB, regardless of whether he's taken in the Top 5 or not, it ready to play day one. Blake Bortles, who was a "Big Arm" QB, didn't start the first five games of the 2014 season, yet suffered from "Dead Arm" late last year and couldn't push the ball further than 10 yards.

Once Brady, Brees and the Manning brothers retire, there will be even fewer prototypical "Franchise QB's" in the NFL and the pipeline from college will only become smaller.

[DJ's left nut]

How is it categorically false? Players develop, sure, but until it translates into more wins or quantifiable production in terms of stats, it's all speculation. It's not some huge leap to look at how the roster is constructed and come to the conclusion that the team will look no better or worse than the year before.

Evidence ain't results, champ.

You're saying that there's more evidence that we won't improve than there is that we will. That's categorically false, just look at the roster. You have one mark in your camp - Hudson's gone.

What additional evidence is there that we won't improve?

Because yes, there's a SHITLOAD that says we will. No, I can't state with certainty that Maclin/Wilson/Conley will be better than Bowe/Avery/Hemingway but I can say that Maclin's production, skills and fit are all much MUCH better for this O than Bowe's. I can say that Wilson was more productive in his limited run than Avery was last season and I can say that Hemingway has largely proven to be trash and that if Conley isn't an improvement on him, Avery will be. That's evidence. Do you disagree with any thing I said there?

Fasano wasn't good last year. He completely stopped blocking and he was O-Lineman slow. Moreover, he started the first half of the season as the #1 TE. Kelce out of the blocks at #1 will make a large difference on it's own. In order to get to 'no improvement' from the TE group, Kelce has to not get better AND the replacements for Fasano have to fail to clear a pretty damn low bar he set last year. The former is pretty damn unlikely, especially given the increase in Kecle's playing time. At worst, I'll cede the latter in the TE position group breaks even. Aight.

The OL - seriously, if you don't see how markedly improved that line's going to be and claim 'no evidence that it will improve', I'm just not sure what to say. It simply completely disregards what a ****ing abortion McGlynn was last season while simultaneously deciding that Rodney Hudson must be Mike Webster. Yeah, losing Hudson's going to hurt, but there's good reason to believe that adding Grubbs will largely off-set that. So now you have to believe that Fisher won't improve, Fulton/Fanaika can't give us any improvement over where Fulton was last year (or even Morse) and that Kush or Morse will be as bad as McGlynn was. Oh yeah, and that no combination of Allen/Stephenson will be better than Harris. You have to look at that OL with the absolute most dour of lenses to believe that to be the case.

As to your 'improvement over nothing' line, the inconsistent logic that is necessary for that to hold tells me you're just trolling at this point. Yes, we got NOTHING from them last year. So ANYTHING from them is an improvement and a massive one at that. So how again do you say they aren't improvements just by playing to the level they are capable of? Because they weren't actually capable of playing AT ALL last season.

You're creating straw men to attempt to salvage a shitty argument. The D doesn't have to be the '85 bears to have shown improvement. DJ and Devito need to be better than nothing. Peters needs to be better than Cooper. Nelson needs to be better than Owens. Gaines and Ford need to be better their 2nd year in the league (THAT NEVER HAPPENS!).

This gets back to your fatalist bullshit. Improvement in the margins is still improvement. If you want to start the season with the expectations that you either build a 14-2 juggernaut or you've wasted your time, more power to you. Sadly, that's not how the NFL works. This is a parity driven league where wins are ALWAYS found in the margins.

The roster is objectively better than the team that played the vast majority of 2014 and by a significant amount. It's a complete loss to me how you can't find evidence of that.

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

If your rebuttal to a comment that a player isn't good enough to turn a team into a contender is saying that the defense might be good enough to carry him to a title, you should probably listen to what you're telling yourself about your confidence in said player.

Alex was completing 70% of his throws at over 8ypa and a 13-5 td-int ratio when he got his concussion in SF.

Extrapolate that to 500-525 attempts he will get next year and you probably are pretty close to what I expect of him in 2015

[Ebolapox]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Some of you guys are living in a fantasy world in terms of QB's. The bottom line is that for most NFL teams, defense, special teams and perimeter weapons with a solid, non-turnover prone QB will be their best bet to win a championship.

You know, like Russell Wilson.

College QB's aren't taught to read defenses, so it'll be rare that a QB, regardless of whether he's taken in the Top 5 or not, it ready to play day one. Blake Bortles, who was a "Big Arm" QB, didn't start the first five games of the 2014 season, yet suffered from "Dead Arm" late last year and couldn't push the ball further than 10 yards.

Once Brady, Brees and the Manning brothers retire, there will be even fewer prototypical "Franchise QB's" in the NFL and the pipeline from college will only become smaller.

MLB really has been sucking out the arm-talent for quite a while now, and it's not getting any better. I've long held the belief that the chiefs' franchise QB is languishing away on a bus for some team's AA team, never to suit up for us because he chose baseball, and we'll never hear about his baseball career b/c he'll retire after his breaking stuff never improves.

[-King-]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

If your rebuttal to a comment that a player isn't good enough to turn a team into a contender is saying that the defense might be good enough to carry him to a title, you should probably listen to what you're telling yourself about your confidence in said player.

My confidence is in the team overall. I'm not one of those "QB is everying! Everything is QB" posters. I see how hard it is to win playoff games and go to the SB with even Aaron Rodgers. So I understand that QB play isn't the end all be all in the game. I also see Russell Wilson throwing up backup numbers and winning 1 out of 2 superbowls. So far Alex Smith has shown that he can far exceed those numbers and actually play like an elite QB in the playoffs. So if the defense plays like they can and Alex Smith plays anything close to the level he's played in previous playoff games, this is a superbowl contending team.

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Except for in 2013 when Russell Wilson was a bystander to a SB championship.

Wilson developed into a better QB in '14 than he was in '13, no question. And at this point I do think he's a better QB than Smith because he is more aggressive.

But we're literally 18 months removed from the Seahawks D dragging Wilson to a SB championship. The first two rounds of the playoffs were Seattle's D doing serious work while Wilson largely spun his wheels. And against the Broncos are you really going to try to say that the savage beating the D put on Manning and crew isn't why they won that championship?

One. Season. Ago.

That's not ancient history, fellas. If the 2013 Seahawks can win a Super Bowl with Wilson's exceedingly mediocre performance, the Chiefs can absolutely do so in 2015. And if the 2014 Seahawks can lose in the SB despite improved play from their QB in 2014, then perhaps we should stop acting like the QB is the only thing that matters or that failing to win a SB is an indictment on a team at large.

Fair enough. I did go back and compare Brady and RW and they had very very similar stats in their first couple of SB runs. I would feel alot better about AS if he was going into his 4th season instead of his 11th. I think what we have seen is what we are going to get unfortunately.

[DeezNutz]

There's irony in the fact that a decent football discussion breaks out in this thread.

OTWP, come on back; the water is safe. It's still populated with the usual suspects: the good swimmers, the doggy paddlers, the open-water pissers, the mouth breathers who consume more water than they piss, etc. It's called life.

[DeezNutz]

And the 2015 Chiefs should be pretty ****ing good. So there's that, too.

[Chiefnj2]

Originally Posted by -King-

But that doesn't matter. Bottom line is that Russell Wilson has won a superbowl in a post season where he averaged 174 yards per game and had 103 yards in the first game.

Alex Smith shits on both of those numbers in the playoffs. He scored 43 points, had 400+ total yards and 3 TDs in our last playoff game without Jamaal Charles or Knile Davis and people still act like we can't win with him. Wtf?

Because for every half of good play, Alex has several games of playing like a chickenshit. That's why people doubt him. The glass is half full people will say "look at the first half against the Colts". The glass is half empty will say "look at the entire Tennessee game or end of the San Fran game." Whether you want to admit it or not, Wilson tends to step up more often than not and make plays when the team needs it. Alex hasn't.

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Evidence ain't results, champ.

You're saying that there's more evidence that we won't improve than there is that we will. That's categorically false, just look at the roster. You have one mark in your camp - Hudson's gone.

What additional evidence is there that we won't improve?

Because yes, there's a SHITLOAD that says we will. No, I can't state with certainty that Maclin/Wilson/Conley will be better than Bowe/Avery/Hemingway but I can say that Maclin's production, skills and fit are all much MUCH better for this O than Bowe's. I can say that Wilson was more productive in his limited run than Avery was last season and I can say that Hemingway has largely proven to be trash and that if Conley isn't an improvement on him, Avery will be. That's evidence. Do you disagree with any thing I said there?

Fasano wasn't good last year. He completely stopped blocking and he was O-Lineman slow. Moreover, he started the first half of the season as the #1 TE. Kelce out of the blocks at #1 will make a large difference on it's own. In order to get to 'no improvement' from the TE group, Kelce has to not get better AND the replacements for Fasano have to fail to clear a pretty damn low bar he set last year. The former is pretty damn unlikely, especially given the increase in Kecle's playing time. At worst, I'll cede the latter in the TE position group breaks even. Aight.

The OL - seriously, if you don't see how markedly improved that line's going to be and claim 'no evidence that it will improve', I'm just not sure what to say. It simply completely disregards what a ****ing abortion McGlynn was last season while simultaneously deciding that Rodney Hudson must be Mike Webster. Yeah, losing Hudson's going to hurt, but there's good reason to believe that adding Grubbs will largely off-set that. So now you have to believe that Fisher won't improve, Fulton/Fanaika can't give us any improvement over where Fulton was last year (or even Morse) and that Kush or Morse will be as bad as McGlynn was. Oh yeah, and that no combination of Allen/Stephenson will be better than Harris. You have to look at that OL with the absolute most dour of lenses to believe that to be the case.

As to your 'improvement over nothing' line, the inconsistent logic that is necessary for that to hold tells me you're just trolling at this point. Yes, we got NOTHING from them last year. So ANYTHING from them is an improvement and a massive one at that. So how again do you say they aren't improvements just by playing to the level they are capable of? Because they weren't actually capable of playing AT ALL last season.

You're creating straw men to attempt to salvage a shitty argument. The D doesn't have to be the '85 bears to have shown improvement. DJ and Devito need to be better than nothing. Peters needs to be better than Cooper. Nelson needs to be better than Owens. Gaines and Ford need to be better their 2nd year in the league (THAT NEVER HAPPENS!).

This gets back to your fatalist bullshit. Improvement in the margins is still improvement. If you want to start the season with the expectations that you either build a 14-2 juggernaut or you've wasted your time, more power to you. Sadly, that's not how the NFL works. This is a parity driven league where wins are ALWAYS found in the margins.

The roster is objectively better than the team that played the vast majority of 2014 and by a significant amount. It's a complete loss to me how you can't find evidence of that.

I can't even put into words how nice it is to have you back in the mix.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Ebolapox

MLB really has been sucking out the arm-talent for quite a while now, and it's not getting any better. I've long held the belief that the chiefs' franchise QB is languishing away on a bus for some team's AA team, never to suit up for us because he chose baseball, and we'll never hear about his baseball career b/c he'll retire after his breaking stuff never improves.

Yep and I've been saying this for quite a while here on the 'Planet.

I wouldn't hesitate for a second to go to MLB over the NFL. The bodily wear and tear is much less, there's very little risk of concussion and they offer guaranteed contracts.

[ViperVisor]

Pass protection is half the battle.

WRs
Avery play for a month.

48 of the 493 passes went to Hemingway, Jenkins, Hammond. 5.1 yards per attempt.

The garbage upfront and on the WR depth chart made quasi hand-offs to DAT part of the pass attack. Only 5.0 yards per attempt to him on 31 throws.

16% of the total passes right there between that group = a craptastic 5 yards per throw.

A lot of that is going to be absorbed by more passes to the new #1 WR and emerging star TE.

TE is better because Kelce is going to be on the field for 90% of pass plays not 60%.

It is such a low bar to clear is why a full time crew of Avant, Wilson and Conley is an upgrade.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

If your rebuttal to a comment that a player isn't good enough to turn a team into a contender is saying that the defense might be good enough to carry him to a title, you should probably listen to what you're telling yourself about your confidence in said player.

You're projecting.

It would appear that you believe there are people arguing that Alex Smith will be what makes this team a SB contender. It appears that you believe that there are people here arguing that Alex Smith is going to carry us to a championship.

Literally NOBODY believes that. And your statement (after I read it about 7 times to try to figure out what the hell it is you're trying to say), shows just how little nuance you are willing to read into anybody's thoughts if they're contrary to your own.

Nobody's saying that Alex Smith is going to be the reason the Chiefs will win the Super Bowl. Many of us are simply saying that he's not someone you can't win a Super Bowl with.

The defense, the weapons around Alex and the coaching staff will be the reason the Chiefs contend. Smith is a solid NFL QB. He's not a force multiplier. He's not going to make your team better than it is (as opposed to the truly elite). He's not going to make your team worse than it is (as opposed to the horrifically shitty). He'll make your team exactly as good as it is. If the Chiefs are going to contend, it's going to be because the team around Alex Smith is really damn good.

Here's the good news - the team around Alex Smith is really damn good.