Movies and TV Star Trek: Strange New Worlds - Page 22

**Bowser** · 04-03-2022, 06:57 PM

Maybe it's overkill having a thread for this, but meh.

lawrenceRaider · 08-09-2023, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

S2 has been consistently better in quality than S1 as well, that's also a false assertion.

Now it would be accurate to say there's been less of a focus on Pike in general and it's become even more of an ensemble show, but that isn't really a drawback either (the best Trek of all time in DS9 was the same way).

Couldn't disagree with you more. S1 is clearly superior to S2. Even the better episodes at the start of S2, and the fantastic Lower Decks episode, aren't as good as S1.

KC_Connection · 08-09-2023, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawrenceRaider

Couldn't disagree with you more. S1 is clearly superior to S2. Even the better episodes at the start of S2, and the fantastic Lower Decks episode, aren't as good as S1.

S1 had some good to great episodes, but the consistency in quality wasn't there for me. It has been this season (at least for me).

There's no real scientific way to look at it, but S2 has been rated slightly higher by the viewers than S1 with less stinkers: https://www.ratingraph.com/tv-shows/...ratings-97475/

KC_Connection · 08-09-2023, 09:17 AM

Also, the whining about there being some kind of focus on Uhura is bizarre to me and not based in any kind of reality.

The episodes so far this season and their focus:

The Broken Circle (E1)-Spock
Ad Astra per Aspera (E2)-Una
Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow (E3)-La'an and Kirk
Among the Lotus Eaters (E4)-Pike
Charades (E5)-Spock
Lost in Translation (E6)-Uhura
Those Old Scientists (E7)-Boimler/Mariner (LD Crossover)
Under the Cloak of War (E8)-M'Benga and Chapel
Subspace Rhapsody (E9)- Ensemble with more focus on Spock/Chapel and La'an/Kirk

Spock has probably been the character given the most to do this season, followed by La'an.

listopencil · 08-09-2023, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

Also, the whining about there being some kind of focus on Uhura is bizarre to me and not based in any kind of reality.

The episodes so far this season and their focus:

The Broken Circle (E1)-Spock
Ad Astra per Aspera (E2)-Una
Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow (E3)-La'an and Kirk
Among the Lotus Eaters (E4)-Pike
Charades (E5)-Spock
Lost in Translation (E6)-Uhura
Those Old Scientists (E7)-Boimler/Mariner (LD Crossover)
Under the Cloak of War (E8)-M'Benga and Chapel
Subspace Rhapsody (E9)- Ensemble with more focus on Spock/Chapel and La'an/Kirk

Spock has probably been the character given the most to do this season, followed by La'an.

It's not the focus on Uhura, it's the way they've treated the character. She's very obviously a Mary Sue and the way they've handled her makes the show worse rather than better.

KC_Connection · 08-09-2023, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by listopencil

It's not the focus on Uhura, it's the way they've treated the character. She's very obviously a Mary Sue and the way they've handled her makes the show worse rather than better.

How should they treat her? As TOS did? They have to do something with her character and it would certainly make sense that anybody who gets on the Enterprise at her age would be a prodigy of some kind.

In any case, she's had one episode focus on her in each season. There are probably a half dozen other characters who have gotten more to do on this show so far. If the fact that she is some kind is prodigy (which gets shown off once every 10 episodes) is somehow affecting your enjoyment of the show/cast overall, it's probably a 'you' problem, not the show's problem.

Frazod · 08-09-2023, 11:03 AM

But why did she need to be a prodigy in the first place? They could have just made her a regular old ensign. Original Uhura was just a competent officer.

To be fair, they're also doing it with other characters. Chapel was just a nurse who made doe eyes at Spock - not some flighty super nerd applying for high-powered intellectual fellowships. I guess Number One (who didn't even have a name in the original pilot) could have been some genetically engineered alien, but it never came up. And the doctor is a super assassin with PTSD barely keeping his rage in check. Like I said before, they're basically supersizing the characters just like Abrams did. Except for poor George Kirk, who has become the bumbling underachiever comic relief guy, like the moron in the Snoop Dog beer commercials. And while Pike was originally a combination of Kirk and Picard, lately he's more like a combination of Picard and the guy from Orville.

Perhaps they feel like they have to do this to maintain the interest of modern audiences, but it's a far cry from TOS - that had three (perhaps four, if you count Scotty) main characters, and everybody else was fairly interchangeable.

KC_Connection · 08-09-2023, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frazod

But why did she need to be a prodigy in the first place? They could have just made her a regular old ensign. Original Uhura was just a competent officer.

So they could have an ensemble show with a range of interesting characters instead of one focused on Pike, Spock, and Una. For the most part, they've done an effective job at that. They are paying homage to TOS regularly but they very clearly aren't trying to remake TOS here.

Quote:

Perhaps they feel like they have to do this to maintain the interest of modern audiences, but it's a far cry from TOS - that had three (perhaps four, if you count Scotty) main characters, and everybody else was fairly interchangeable.

Why do you want everyone else to be interchangeable? I just finished a rewatch a few months ago of DS9 and the reason that show was so watchable was because they had an entire cast of well developed characters. You could throw in a Worf, O'Brien or Quark episode at any time and it would still be great.

Frazod · 08-09-2023, 12:07 PM

The days of 26 episode seasons are gone. Now we get 10 and have to wait a year for the next ten. I'd rather the show focused on the whole STRANGE NEW WORLDS bit instead of dedicating entire episodes of a very limited run constantly adding super abilities to supporting characters.

listopencil · 08-09-2023, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

How should they treat her? As TOS did? They have to do something with her character and it would certainly make sense that anybody who gets on the Enterprise at her age would be a prodigy of some kind.

In any case, she's had one episode focus on her in each season. There are probably a half dozen other characters who have gotten more to do on this show so far. If the fact that she is some kind is prodigy (which gets shown off once every 10 episodes) is somehow affecting your enjoyment of the show/cast overall, it's probably a 'you' problem, not the show's problem.

No, it's a 'show' problem because - as I said - they've made a Mary Sue out of her. To the point that what could have been a good episode with her as the featured character was flawed and kind of dumb. What they could do with her is show her as a competent officer and a quality human being, which is what ST:TOS did with her. They have a chance to do more along those lines and they're blowing it. I looked at your list of who got the focus in various episodes. Spock should be at the top. He's the most naturally compelling character of the series. Followed closely if not eventually eclipsed by Pike because he should be the central character of this series. After that it's hit or miss depending on the actors involved and how the parts are being written.

KC_Connection · 08-09-2023, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frazod

The days of 26 episode seasons are gone. Now we get 10 and have to wait a year for the next ten. I'd rather the show focused on the whole STRANGE NEW WORLDS bit instead of dedicating entire episodes of a very limited run constantly adding super abilities to supporting characters.

I'd rather the show focus on a variety of strong characters myself instead of having 3 good ones and a bunch of extras.

KC_Connection · 08-09-2023, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by listopencil

No, it's a 'show' problem because - as I said - they've made a Mary Sue out of her. To the point that what could have been a good episode with her as the featured character was flawed and kind of dumb. What they could do with her is show her as a competent officer and a quality human being, which is what ST:TOS did with her. They have a chance to do more along those lines and they're blowing it. I looked at your list of who got the focus in various episodes. Spock should be at the top. He's the most naturally compelling character of the series. Followed closely if not eventually eclipsed by Pike because he should be the central character of this series. After that it's hit or miss depending on the actors involved and how the parts are being written.

Uhura has had two episodes about her in the show's 20 episode run, one was quite good (the 2nd episode of the show's run) and other was bad (E6 this season). If you're letting one episode affect your view of the overall show despite its multitude of other strengths, I'd suggest it's very much a 'you' problem.

I'd also argue there is no "central character" of this series at this point and the writers have made it pretty obvious in S2 they don't intend to have one. I'm also not sure why that is a problem at all (the alternative is something awful like Discovery where the show is all Burnham all the time and you develop literally nobody else as a character at all).

listopencil · 08-09-2023, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

I'd rather the show focus on a variety of strong characters myself instead of having 3 good ones and a bunch of extras.

I'd be good with that. I would appreciate it, even. Just stop taking goofy shortcuts and get back to good storytelling.

KC_Connection · 08-09-2023, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by listopencil

I'd be good with that. I would appreciate it, even. Just stop taking goofy shortcuts and get back to good storytelling.

They had a good/great episode just two weeks ago in E8.

Frazod · 08-09-2023, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

I'd rather the show focus on a variety of strong characters myself instead of having 3 good ones and a bunch of extras.

I guess they should have called it Star Trek - Super New Characters!

listopencil · 08-09-2023, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

Uhura has had two episodes about her in the show's 20 episode run, one was quite good (the 2nd episode of the show's run) and other was bad (E6 this season). If you're letting one episode affect your view of the overall show despite its multitude of other strengths, I'd suggest it's very much a 'you' problem.

I'd also argue there is no "central character" of this series at this point and the writers have made it pretty obvious in S2 they don't intend to have one. I'm also not sure why that is a problem at all (the alternative is something awful like Discovery where the show is all Burnham all the time and you develop literally nobody else as a character at all).

No, a bad episode isn't a 'me' problem. It's a 'show' problem. My opinion of the show is going to be based on...the show.

04-03-2022, 06:57 PM
Bowser sorta mod-ish Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: KC North Casino cash: $-98384	Star Trek: Strange New Worlds Maybe it's overkill having a thread for this, but meh.
Posts: 106,693

08-09-2023, 09:17 AM	#318
KC_Connection Perpetual Mediocrity Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $1662783	Also, the whining about there being some kind of focus on Uhura is bizarre to me and not based in any kind of reality. The episodes so far this season and their focus: The Broken Circle (E1)-Spock Ad Astra per Aspera (E2)-Una Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow (E3)-La'an and Kirk Among the Lotus Eaters (E4)-Pike Charades (E5)-Spock Lost in Translation (E6)-Uhura Those Old Scientists (E7)-Boimler/Mariner (LD Crossover) Under the Cloak of War (E8)-M'Benga and Chapel Subspace Rhapsody (E9)- Ensemble with more focus on Spock/Chapel and La'an/Kirk Spock has probably been the character given the most to do this season, followed by La'an.
Posts: 57,786

08-09-2023, 11:03 AM	#321
Frazod Did you hear what I said? Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $-646615	But why did she need to be a prodigy in the first place? They could have just made her a regular old ensign. Original Uhura was just a competent officer. To be fair, they're also doing it with other characters. Chapel was just a nurse who made doe eyes at Spock - not some flighty super nerd applying for high-powered intellectual fellowships. I guess Number One (who didn't even have a name in the original pilot) could have been some genetically engineered alien, but it never came up. And the doctor is a super assassin with PTSD barely keeping his rage in check. Like I said before, they're basically supersizing the characters just like Abrams did. Except for poor George Kirk, who has become the bumbling underachiever comic relief guy, like the moron in the Snoop Dog beer commercials. And while Pike was originally a combination of Kirk and Picard, lately he's more like a combination of Picard and the guy from Orville. Perhaps they feel like they have to do this to maintain the interest of modern audiences, but it's a far cry from TOS - that had three (perhaps four, if you count Scotty) main characters, and everybody else was fairly interchangeable.
Posts: 121,726	2 0

08-09-2023, 12:07 PM	#323
Frazod Did you hear what I said? Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $-646615	The days of 26 episode seasons are gone. Now we get 10 and have to wait a year for the next ten. I'd rather the show focused on the whole STRANGE NEW WORLDS bit instead of dedicating entire episodes of a very limited run constantly adding super abilities to supporting characters.
Posts: 121,726	2 0