***Official 2015 STL Cardinals Thread II***

[BigRedChief]

2011 World Series Championship
2012 NLCS. One win from another WS appearance.
2013 World Series. Two wins from another World Series Championship
2014 NLCS. Three wins from another WS appearance
2015 Clinched Central Division title and Home Field advantage in the playoffs. First team in MLB to win 100 games since 2011.

• Made the postseason 11 times in the last 15 seasons.
• Only 1 losing season since 2000.
• Reached the World Series 4 times since 2004 and won as many championships (two) the past eight seasons as it did from 1965 to 2005.
• Made the NLCS 9 times including the last 4 years 2011-2014
• Three million attendance? Take it to the bank.
• 65 post season wins since 2004. 22+ wins more than any other team.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Can someone who cares enough to report Hootie give me some quotes to back up asking him from being banned from this thread? I don't feel like reading all of it.

[Hootie]

Originally Posted by Swanman

Good, it will lead to you being banned that much faster.

You actually talk baseball in Royals threads. If you did that here, you would get along a whole lot better. But nope, you basically litter the thread with name-calling and telling Cardinal fans how to be better fans, all in a very passive-aggressive and trollish way.

I cannot be banned for mocking cardinals fans. It's simply not a bannable offense. Don't blame me that tapatalk is a workaround for the individual thread ban nonsense. This isn't Chiefs Coalition ... I can mock cardinals fans however and whenever I want. In short, s on my d, guy

[Swanman]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

I'm teaching a valuable lesson. If you want someone to go away, don't needle said person. Simply ignore said person and eventually said person will go away. Very tough, I agree.

[Hootie]

Originally Posted by Mr. Flopnuts

Can someone who cares enough to report Hootie give me some quotes to back up asking him from being banned from this thread? I don't feel like reading all of it.

They won't find any. I'll sum it up for you:

Hootie: "Gee, the Cardinals are the best team in baseball. Why are their fans so angry? Lol. Best fans in baseball!"

Bdj/swanman: "omg now we know why you were banned omg stop it BRC please ban him he's mocking us!"

In short, cardinals fans on this board, for the most part, seem like gaping ****ing vaginas. I constantly compliment their team, I just point out how insanely ridiculous their fans are.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

I disagree there is some skill involved. He could have caught that ball and he would tell you that. Its reflex and its skill.

It's really not, and you're going to have to trust me a bit on this. The tip would have to be so minor as not to influence the trajectory of the ball. In other words, it has to end up in, roughly, the same spot as where the pitch would have been had no contact happened. In these instances, catchers hang on to foul tips.

Catchers cannot react to foul tips to "catch" them. It doesn't/cannot happen.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

They won't find any. I'll sum it up for you:

Hootie: "Gee, the Cardinals are the best team in baseball. Why are their fans so angry? Lol. Best fans in baseball!"

Bdj/swanman: "omg now we know why you were banned omg stop it BRC please ban him he's mocking us!"

In short, cardinals fans on this board, for the most part, seem like gaping ****ing vaginas. I constantly compliment their team, I just point out how insanely ridiculous their fans are.

Well, my experience in life tells me there are 3 sides to every story. Your side, my side, and the truth. That said, if this is really all it is, that's not good enough to ban you from the thread. Being an asshole is something embraced around here, not something punished.

That said, I'm not trying to stamp my foot, and go all mod badass on you, but please be aware that if someone tells you that you've been banned from a thread and you use tapatalk to circumvent it, that's a reason to be banned from the site period. So please don't put me in that spot if I ever ask you to not post in a thread.

[Hootie]

Ok but if I'm banned from this thread I expect any time a cardinals fan posts anything in a Royals thread I feel to be insulting you'll ban them from all future Royals threads because I simply cannot take any needling from the best fans in baseball as it hurts my feelings

[Hootie]

I do, however, challenge someone to find flop a ban worthy post I've made in this thread. Please. First person to find one gets some posirep

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

It's not. In fact, this was specifically addressed during the Mets debacle on Sunday. The broadcasters referenced Tim McCarver who said that catching foul tips was nothing but luck.

I feel like it's a little like playing goalie though, is it not?

If you're a goalie and you're playing with perfect technique, it doesn't guarantee that you'll stop a deflection but if you're over on time with your stick on the ice and you're pretty upright through your shoulders then you're probably going to be in the right position to at least greatly increase your odds.

So if you're Tony Cruz and you're flinchy and you 'jab' at balls when you receive them rather than smoothly slide over to catch them, you're going to be a little less likely to catch that tip. And where Yadi does do some slight of hand to pitch frame, I also wonder if that same 'slide' movement that he does isn't going to help because he's tracking with the flight of the ball and that's generally the same direction the ball will deflect.

No, there's nobody that's ever been quick enough to actively move to catch a foul tip and claim credit for it. But I would think that the sounder you are from a technique standpoint and the quieter you are as a receiver, the more likely you are to catch that foul tip. At that point, it isn't pure luck - it's still a skill or at the very least a moment where skill and luck interact.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I feel like it's a little like playing goalie though, is it not?

If you're a goalie and you're playing with perfect technique, it doesn't guarantee that you'll stop a deflection but if you're over on time with your stick on the ice and you're pretty upright through your shoulders then you're probably going to be in the right position to at least greatly increase your odds.

So if you're Tony Cruz and you're flinchy and you 'jab' at balls when you receive them rather than smoothly slide over to catch them, you're going to be a little less likely to catch that tip. And where Yadi does do some slight of hand to pitch frame, I also wonder if that same 'slide' movement that he does isn't going to help because he's tracking with the flight of the ball and that's generally the same direction the ball will deflect.

No, there's nobody that's ever been quick enough to actively move to catch a foul tip and claim credit for it. But I would think that the sounder you are from a technique standpoint and the quieter you are as a receiver, the more likely you are to catch that foul tip. At that point, it isn't pure luck - it's still a skill or at the very least a moment where skill and luck interact.

No. This all reads nicely and applies logic, but no.

If you struggle to receive a pitch in general, I guess your odds of catching a foul tip are lesser, but this fits the overall narrative; the player cannot ****ing catch.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

No. This all reads nicely and applies logic, but no.

If you struggle to receive a pitch in general, I guess your odds of catching a foul tip are lesser, but this fits the overall narrative; the player cannot ****ing catch.

Well Tony Cruz cannot ****ing catch.

I guess I just disagree with the idea that all foul tips are truly random. If you're righty throwing a changeup to a lefty on the outer third, the odds are pretty good that any foul tip is going to go down because the ball is going to tail that way and the hitter's probably going to be coming up and out on his swing plane (if he's ahead of a the pitch, as is the point with the change). As a good pitch framer you're going to smoothly be going with the ball and you should probably in a slightly better position to catch that ball than a bad pitch framer. If it's a fastball up and in, that ball is probably going to be tipped up and back.

It doesn't mean you saw the tip and moved your glove up to catch it (because that's not possible) but if you're a catcher like Molina that's done this for 20 years now, there's no way you don't develop an instinct for how certain pitches tend to be fought off.

You're not seeing and reacting to it, but by being smarter about tendencies you're simply slightly increasing your odds of being in the right place at the right time.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

Ok but if I'm banned from this thread I expect any time a cardinals fan posts anything in a Royals thread I feel to be insulting you'll ban them from all future Royals threads because I simply cannot take any needling from the best fans in baseball as it hurts my feelings

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

I do, however, challenge someone to find flop a ban worthy post I've made in this thread. Please. First person to find one gets some posirep

Heh, if it's literally just you giving some guys the business about bitching about their team even though they're the best in baseball this is a moot point. Let's see who comes up with what before talking hypotheticals. I'm still too lazy to read 400 posts, but no one is leading a charge yet.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Well Tony Cruz cannot ****ing catch.

I guess I just disagree with the idea that all foul tips are truly random. If you're righty throwing a changeup to a lefty on the outer third, the odds are pretty good that any foul tip is going to go down because the ball is going to tail that way and the hitter's probably going to be coming up and out on his swing plane (if he's ahead of a the pitch, as is the point with the change). As a good pitch framer you're going to smoothly be going with the ball and you should probably in a slightly better position to catch that ball than a bad pitch framer. If it's a fastball up and in, that ball is probably going to be tipped up and back.

It doesn't mean you saw the tip and moved your glove up to catch it (because that's not possible) but if you're a catcher like Molina that's done this for 20 years now, there's no way you don't develop an instinct for how certain pitches tend to be fought off.

You're not seeing and reacting to it, but by being smarter about tendencies you're simply slightly increasing your odds of being in the right place at the right time.

Then we will simply disagree, then. I can tell you with confidence that from the level of major college +, there isn't a single discussion of this, and I believe conversations of foul tips underestimate, on some level, the difficulty of receiving a pitch.

Molina, or any catcher for that matter, is working to call, receive, and frame. These are three really ****ing difficult things to do and do well. There isn't the slightest conscious thought about where or how pitches are fought off.

On your example above of the change down, a good pitch framer (while always smooth with their hands) isn't going down. In fact, to frame that pitch the catcher has to have stiff wrists and work to prevent the pitch from taking your glove down. So you're trying to be firm when you're catching it so the momentum doesn't make the pitch look worse than it really was/is.

Therefore, what you have to do to frame that pitch successfully contradicts the notion of where you believe the ball will "typically" end up. So by your example, a good pitch framer would actually be at a disadvantage, and the **** nut who doesn't have a clue would actually be in a better position for the foul tip because he's letting the pitch take him where it wants.

Furthermore, I completely disagree with the notion that pitches are generally fouled off in any specific direction. At times, hitters simply have an emergency hack, and balls end up going in directions that damn near defy the laws of physics.

Nah, lots of words are being spilled to try to account for something that is dumb-ass luck or the byproduct of the ball "barely" being touched.

The timing involved doesn't allow for anything else.

[DJ's left nut]

Fair 'nuff. The extent of my catching 'background' was 2 years of it I did when I was 10ish. I hated it, didn't care about the nuances of it and mostly just wanted to go back to the infield where baseball was fun again. That's a good point regarding the pitch framing.

I guess when I think about it I've never noticed a difference between one catcher and another when it comes to how often they secure those.

Tony Cruz still sucks though. I'll be he sucks at catching foul tips as well.

[Swanman]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Fair 'nuff. The extent of my catching 'background' was 2 years of it I did when I was 10ish. I hated it, didn't care about the nuances of it and mostly just wanted to go back to the infield where baseball was fun again. That's a good point regarding the pitch framing.

I guess when I think about it I've never noticed a difference between one catcher and another when it comes to how often they secure those.

Tony Cruz still sucks though. I'll be he sucks at catching foul tips as well.

It can be a study for the hardcore sabermetricians out there, the correlation between OPS/War/whatever and percentages of foul tips caught. Every other damn thing is analyzed, this might as well be too.