Would you pay Bowe $120-130M for 8 years?

[jAZ]

According to...

Originally Posted by ChiefsandO'sfan

Evan Silva ‏@evansilva

RT @ChiefsOrioles12 Do the Chiefs get Bowe signed long term before the 16th? ... Doubt it. Believed to be seeking big-time money.

Which means...
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...act-with-lions

Johnson is scheduled to earn close to $130 million over the next eight seasons, including $113.5 million over the final seven years of the deal, league sources told NFL Network insider Jason La Canfora.

The contract includes $4.5 million in an existing roster bonus that's due on the final year of his rookie deal.


The deal also includes $53 million in guaranteed money, with Johnson's $1.25 million base salary in 2012 guaranteed, and $36 million due in signing and option bonuses. According to La Canfora, $11.5 million in future salary is guaranteed for injury only.

The contract makes Johnson -- who scorched the NFL with 96 catches for 1,681 yards and 16 touchdowns in 2011 -- the highest-paid wide receiver in league history, surpassing the eight-year, $120 million deal that Larry Fitzgerald signed with the Arizona Cardinals before last season.

[BossChief]

Freeman has better tools and I'd move Cassel and a first for him based on potential alone, but some of you guys overrate the blue hell out of the kid.

He lost the last 12 games last year, even though he had weapons to use and an average defense, talentwise.

That was in his third season, the one most franchise guys separate themselves from the average qbs.

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

If you're blind to the differences in those two seasons - age, supporting cast, completion percentage, etc - I can't help you.

For a 22 year old kid to do that - including a 61+% completion rate and a 7.3 YPA - with limited talent around him - is phenomenal.

For a 28 year old to do it with the benefit of a near-historic running game and a YAC-machine at WR1 - and still only complete 58% and be under 7 YPA - BFD.

Ask any football fan outside KC and Tampa three questions:

Which QB had the better season?

Which QB is more likely to become a franchise QB?

Which QB would you rather have on your team?


Who the hell is going to vote for Cassel?

Clay was pointing to 25/6. I noted 27/7. Perfectly reasonable.

The rest of your argument is irrelevant to the post.

BTW, for all the crying about Cassel last year, and since you've decided to make this about Cassel v. Freeman, Cassel's numbers were better than Freeman's last year. That's the guy you're pointing to as a lost opportunity.

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

I just know that if we cut Cassel today I would feel better about this team.
Posted via Mobile Device

It would probably feel like getting out of jail after being in for 3 years.

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Jason, I saw you deleted your post before I read it. Sorry if that was for my use of the "R" word.

Rape? That's not a bad word.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

So far, none of the QBs they've passed on has shown themselves as a franchise QB, so there wasn't some failure just because non-franchise QBs were allowed to slide by. If Freeman becomes another Aaron Rodgers (falling QB who turns out to be franchise level), your point will have merit. Right now, it doesn't.

This is like arguing with Terri Schaivo.

That's the problem. You're too busy looking at the here and now, and not considering the huge advantage Freeman has in terms of talent, and the time he has to realize that talent.

In the last three years with their respective teams, Freeman's statistics are better than Cassel's in every category except TD's (-2) and INT's (+14)

More yardage, better completion percentage, better YPA.

One fewer win. Young guy, thrown straight into the fire to learn on the job, with no talent around him, and his numbers are either flat-out better, or very comparable to Cassel, who had the benefit of 7 years in the league, a historic running game and weapons to throw (5 yard passes) to.

Holding every disadvantage, Freeman still trumps Cassel.

So what exactly would be different had we chosen Freeman?

At worst, we'd have many more years for the kid to realize his full potential. To learn, and to get better.

You can scream that Freeman isn't a franchise QB right now until you're blue in the face. That's not the point. He has the potential and time to be one, and the QB we currently have does not.

Again, you'll never find a franchise QB if you never try.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by BossChief

Freeman has better tools and I'd move Cassel and a first for him based on potential alone, but some of you guys overrate the blue hell out of the kid.

He lost the last 12 games last year, even though he had weapons to use and an average defense, talentwise.

That was in his third season, the one most franchise guys separate themselves from the average qbs.

What the **** are you talking about?

TB's defense ranked 30th in yards and 32nd in points.

Which is why he had to chuck the ball all over the yard, trying to get them back into games.

And where is the talent you speak of?

They didn't have a 1000 yard rusher. Mike Williams was his only true target.

Put Cassel out there with the 32nd ranked defense, no rushing game and Mike Williams as your biggest threat, and tell me how he does.

You claim we're overrating him, and I think some of you expect 22-23 year old QB's to be Aaron Rodgers immediately.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

I just know that if we cut Cassel today I would feel better about this team.
Posted via Mobile Device

You're going to make Mrs. Pioli cry.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

Lol. No.

I don't mind asking someone if they are reeruned, they can't help it.
Posted via Mobile Device

Seriously, I've tried really hard to limit my use of that word after our discussion, but sometimes it's just necessary.

[SAUTO]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

You're going to make Mrs. Pioli cry.

They can have him back.

I think everyone knows how I felt about Cassel, but it's clear he is just a pussy. He runs scared.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

This is like arguing with Terri Schaivo.

That's the problem. You're too busy looking at the here and now, and not considering the huge advantage Freeman has in terms of talent, and the time he has to realize that talent.

In the last three years with their respective teams, Freeman's statistics are better than Cassel's in every category except TD's (-2) and INT's (+14)

More yardage, better completion percentage, better YPA.

One fewer win. Young guy, thrown straight into the fire to learn on the job, with no talent around him, and his numbers are either flat-out better, or very comparable to Cassel, who had the benefit of 7 years in the league, a historic running game and weapons to throw (5 yard passes) to.

Holding every disadvantage, Freeman still trumps Cassel.

So what exactly would be different had we chosen Freeman?

At worst, we'd have many more years for the kid to realize his full potential. To learn, and to get better.

You can scream that Freeman isn't a franchise QB right now until you're blue in the face. That's not the point. He has the potential and time to be one, and the QB we currently have does not.

Again, you'll never find a franchise QB if you never try.

You'll never find a franchise QB if you never try would be a perfectly good argument if they'd missed on a franchise QB. They haven't, so your argument is idiotic.

And Cassel's been better than Freeman in QB rating, TD% and INT%, as well.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

They can have him back.

I think everyone knows how I felt about Cassel, but it's clear he is just a pussy. He runs scared.
Posted via Mobile Device

That's the thing. There were plenty of folks dead wrong about him from the get-go. You and some others have said, "you know, I was wrong."

A handful continue to defend this guy at all cost, as if he was a relative or something.

Mind blowing.

[SAUTO]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Seriously, I've tried really hard to limit my use of that word after our discussion, but sometimes it's just necessary.

I appreciate it too.

to me asking is different than calling someone that. Not derogatory. IMO at least.
Posted via Mobile Device

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

I appreciate it too.

to me asking is different than calling someone that. Not derogatory. IMO at least.
Posted via Mobile Device

You gonna hit Nzoner's this year? That might be the only game I make (if any) and I still owe you a beer.

[RealSNR]

I think back to the Keitzman interview Pioli did after the draft this year. Where he had nothing. He had no genius Parcellsian logic to present for the first time to fans about Matt Cassel. He had no "it's part of the top secret plan" tidbits to share. He didn't have any apologies, or even over-defensive rhetoric to spit back at Keitzman. All Pioli did was sit there like a hunk of shit and spew the same safe-worded garbage about competition, patience, and false virtues like hard work, loving football, and smart players. It showed that Pioli has done absolutely ZERO thinking on the issue of the QB.

And to me what that says is that he has a personal relationship with Cassel that is irrationally clouding his judgment about building a franchise. This great friend/son/whatever the hell you want to call him is with the team as the incumbent starter, so why would you, as the loving mentor, actively SEEK OUT a better answer?

I can't think of any other reason why Cassel is still the proclaimed starter. I really can't. That's gotta be it. It just has to be.

And that's pretty ****ing sad. What a great, results-focused GM we have here!

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by SNR

I think back to the Keitzman interview Pioli did after the draft this year. Where he had nothing. He had no genius Parcellsian logic to present for the first time to fans about Matt Cassel. He had no "it's part of the top secret plan" tidbits to share. He didn't have any apologies, or even over-defensive rhetoric to spit back at Keitzman. All Pioli did was sit there like a hunk of shit and spew the same safe-worded garbage about competition, patience, and false virtues like hard work, loving football, and smart players. It showed that Pioli has done absolutely ZERO thinking on the issue of the QB.

And to me what that says is that he has a personal relationship with Cassel that is irrationally clouding his judgment about building a franchise. This great friend/son/whatever the hell you want to call him is with the team as the incumbent starter, so why would you, as the loving mentor, actively SEEK OUT a better answer?

I can't think of any other reason why Cassel is still the proclaimed starter. I really can't. That's gotta be it. It just has to be.

And that's pretty ****ing sad. What a great, results-focused GM we have here!

Reptastic.