LET GUN FINISH WHAT HE STARTED - Page 3

sedated · 01:43 PM

In the final 8 games,

against 4 playoff teams:
NE - 7th in total Offense,
DEN - 5th in total Offense,
@ NYG - 4th in total Offense,
CIN - 6th in total Ofense

and 2 that were in the playoff race:
SD - 10th in total Offense,
@ DAL - 13th in total Offense

our Defense ranked 12th in NFL.

"First you take their heart, then you take their soul"

Isn't this what we all wished for in '02, '03, and '04?

Why doesn't anyone blame the offense for the eggs they laid against Buffalo, Denver (1st game) and Giants?

milkman · 01-12-2006, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philfree

I figured a half hour would be plenty of time for my statement to be rebutted. Go ahead it ain't gonna hurt my feelings. Really I can take it

PhilFree

I've been busy.

Stats on Gunther.
You'll have to ask Parker for the link.

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

100% false. He's had ONE season where his defense finished top 10 in both yards and point allowed. ONE.

Year - Points Allowed - Yards Allowed
Chiefs
2005 - 16th - 25th
2004 - 29th - 31st

Chiefs
1998 - 22nd - 9th
1997 - 1st - 15th
1996 - 11th - 17th
1955 - 1st - 4th

Raiders
1994 - 17th - 12th
1993 - 21st - 10th
1992 - 11th - 8th

philfree · 01-12-2006, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SideWinder

I've been busy.

Stats on Gunther.
You'll have to ask Parker for the link.

Just looking at his tenure with the Chiefs Guns D was 1st in points allowed twice and both times his D didn't improve in that catagory the following year. With yards allowed one year it got worse but the other time it improved. I don't think Parkers argument is even close to water proof.

PhilFree

milkman · 01-12-2006, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philfree

Just looking at his tenure with the Chiefs Guns D was 1st in points allowed twice and both times his D didn't improve in that catagory the following year. With yards allowed one year it got worse but the other time it improved. I don't think Parkers argument is even close to water proof.

PhilFree

His overall record is one of inconsistency.

He hasn't consistently fielded the top 10 defense in any category.

His lack of consistency is, and has always been, my problem with Gun.

But the fact that there is such a disparity from year to year in points allowed is "glaring".

JohnnyV13 · 01-12-2006, 07:21 PM

Gunther's D DID make a big improvement from last season:

110 points less (27 per game down to 20) and gives up 50 fewer yards per game. The ranking didn't improve much because we were so far down toward the bottom.

To put this improvement in perspective, if Gunther does it again....we become an elite defense giving up 278 yards per game and 13 points per game.

milkman · 01-12-2006, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyV13

Gunther's D DID make a big improvement from last season:

110 points less (27 per game down to 20) and gives up 50 fewer yards per game. The ranking didn't improve much because we were so far down toward the bottom.

To put this improvement in perspective, if Gunther does it again....we become an elite defense giving up 278 yards per game and 13 points per game.

And if his history is indication of how next season's defense will fare, then we could very well end up from 25th to dead last in points allowed.

philfree · 01-12-2006, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SideWinder

His overall record is one of inconsistency.

He hasn't consistently fielded the top 10 defense in any category.

His lack of consistency is, and has always been, my problem with Gun.

But the fact that there is such a disparity from year to year in points allowed is "glaring".

I can agree with him being inconsistent but to say it's a glaring negative for keeping him this year I can't. And to say that his D won't improve this year from last year with that argument is stretching IMO. He never had to start with a D as bad as ours before. I got a $Fiver that says our D improves under Gun for a second year in a row.

PhilFree

philfree · 01-12-2006, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philfree

I can agree with him being inconsistent but to say it's a glaring negative for keeping him this year I can't. And to say that his D won't improve this year from last year with that argument is stretching IMO. He never had to start with a D as bad as ours before. I got a $Fiver that says our D improves under Gun for a second year in a row.

PhilFree

I'm going to go drive my cyber nascar for a bit but i'll be back later to read the posts.

Peace Out,

PhilFree

sedated · 01-12-2006, 07:50 PM

How many top 10 offenses did we play vs. IND?

Do you think they would have been so highly ranked if we switched schedules?

sedated · 01-12-2006, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SideWinder

And if his history is indication of how next season's defense will fare, then we could very well end up from 25th to dead last in points allowed.

did you read my topic starter?

we had an ABOVE-AVERAGE defense the last half of the season, against the top offenses in the NFL.

the improvement is obvious.

Isn't that what we all wished for?

now we trash the guy for not improving enough, only because we didn't go to the playoffs, which is Grandpa Dick's fault

milkman · 01-12-2006, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philfree

I can agree with him being inconsistent but to say it's a glaring negative for keeping him this year I can't. And to say that his D won't improve this year from last year with that argument is stretching IMO. He never had to start with a D as bad as ours before. I got a $Fiver that says our D improves under Gun for a second year in a row.

PhilFree

I'm not one that usually puts a lot of stock into stats, alone.

I've always based my opinions based on what I see on the field of play, moreso than in any stats.

I've always argued that Gun is inconsistent, before I ever saw any stats. and that has always been my problem with him.
And this was what I was saying when he was hired after Spinner resigned.

In this particular case, I think there is a likelyhood that the Chiefs D would be improved next season.

But what would we base it on?

Points scored?
Overall defensive ranking?

It's possible that the defense could improve in overall rank, but fall in scoring.
It's also possible that the defense could improve in scoring rank, and fall in overall rank.

Is it a better D if they finish 19th in overall defense, but 18th is scoring?

Is it a better defense if they finish 15th in scoring, but 28th in overall defense?

I've always thought that numbers can be too arbitrary in determining an individual's, or team's, performance.

milkman · 01-12-2006, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sedated

How many top 10 offenses did we play vs. IND?

Do you think they would have been so highly ranked if we switched schedules?

This only supports my belief that numbers are too arbitrary.

sedated · 01-12-2006, 07:59 PM

We will be improved next year because our schedule is easy as hell, like this year's dolts.

and numbers aren't arbitrarary, they are a measuring stick for those that can't watch every game of every team in the season.

milkman · 01-12-2006, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sedated

We will be improved next year because our schedule is easy as hell, like this year's dolts.

and numbers aren't arbitrarary, they are a measuring stick for those that can't watch every game of every team in the season.

So did you watch every Colt game?

sedated · 01-12-2006, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SideWinder

So did you watch every Colt game?

shit, they showed every one of their games on TV, of course I did.

milkman · 01-12-2006, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sedated

shit, they showed every one of their games on TV, of course I did.

So, then, according to you after having watched every one of their games, their defense isn't as good as their numbers?

01-12-2006, 01:31 PM
sedated Like I woke up in Wonderland.. Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: KCMO Casino cash: $896558	LET GUN FINISH WHAT HE STARTED In the final 8 games, against 4 playoff teams: NE - 7th in total Offense, DEN - 5th in total Offense, @ NYG - 4th in total Offense, CIN - 6th in total Ofense and 2 that were in the playoff race: SD - 10th in total Offense, @ DAL - 13th in total Offense our Defense ranked 12th in NFL. "First you take their heart, then you take their soul" Isn't this what we all wished for in '02, '03, and '04? Why doesn't anyone blame the offense for the eggs they laid against Buffalo, Denver (1st game) and Giants? Last edited by sedated; 01-12-2006 at 01:43 PM..
Posts: 18,762

01-12-2006, 07:21 PM	#34
JohnnyV13 Veteran Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tucson AZ Casino cash: $5385200	Gunther's D DID make a big improvement from last season: 110 points less (27 per game down to 20) and gives up 50 fewer yards per game. The ranking didn't improve much because we were so far down toward the bottom. To put this improvement in perspective, if Gunther does it again....we become an elite defense giving up 278 yards per game and 13 points per game.
Posts: 4,222