Opinions on Ashcroft? - Page 3

Frazod · 01-15-2001, 10:16 PM

I just watched a piece on the news about the coming battle over Ashcroft's nomination as AG. The Demonrats are breaking out the torches and pitchforks over this one.

Outside of the basics (anti-affirmative action, anti-abortion, etc.), I don't know much about him - I haven't lived in Missouri since '84. The liberal press paints him as a monster, but I'm curious to hear other opinions.

NaptownChief · 01-16-2001, 08:37 PM

Kyle,

I am completely with you on this...Religion has no place in politics whatsoever...In doing so that should completely remove religious stupidity as a legally acceptable excuse for any wrong doing...i.e. allowing a child to suffer because it is against your religious stupidity to receive medical treatment...Or one local example here in Indy is some church is rioting because the IRS confiscated their building cause the lousy SOB's had been cheating the government out of millions on taxes..."That is God's Money"...Whatever, pay your taxes you deadbeats...

Raiderhater · 01-16-2001, 08:42 PM

Kyle, I agree with the last part, but disagree with you somewhat on the first. The Constitution says nothing about keeping religion out of government. It does however state the opposite. I agree that really extreme things, such as the examples you gave, have no right coming into our government. Just out of curiosity, do you label Pro Choice as an extreme religious issue that the government has no right getting involved in? I have no idea how this issue is taken on this board (I can only imagine), and I am not trying to start a discussion (fight) on it. I am merely asking to make a point.

[Edited by raiderhader on 01-16-2001 at 08:52 PM]

NaptownChief · 01-16-2001, 08:46 PM

hader,

abortion is just like going to fight for your country...some people might have opinions that are influenced or driven because of religious beliefs but those are issues that exist with or without religion that have to be dealt with.

Raiderhater · 01-16-2001, 08:51 PM

JL, that is true, but we pro choicers are often refered to as religious zealots. Wich is why I asked the question.

Raiderhater · 01-16-2001, 09:02 PM

Kyle, you say that you shouldn't keep morality out of politics, but you should religion. George Washington belived the two to be inseperable.

"Of all the dispositions and habits, which lead to political prosperity, Religion and Morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of Patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of Men and Citizens. The mere Politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connexions with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked, Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths, which are the instruments of investigation in Courts of Justice? And let us with caution indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect, that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle."
From Washington's Farewell Address

I happen to agree. How do you seperate the two?

Cannibal · 01-16-2001, 09:12 PM

So you don't want the government to "control" people's lives, but you do want them to legislate "morality".

That's a contradiction.

[Edited by Cannibal on 01-16-2001 at 09:14 PM]

Raiderhater · 01-16-2001, 09:46 PM

Cannibal, would not murder be a moral issue? You have to make laws to make it illegal. Government has a role, just not the big one that libs support.

Frazod · 01-16-2001, 10:31 PM

For anyone who cares, Nightline is doing a piece on Ashcroft right now.

47mack · 01-16-2001, 10:42 PM

delete please

[Edited by 47mack on 01-18-2001 at 11:26 AM]

Frazod · 01-16-2001, 10:54 PM

Does anyone what Mrs. Carnahan's stand on this is? I would think it would be pretty shameful on her part to oppose him after the classy way he handled himself after her husband's death.

I think that alktj s;ltkasj;l.

Sorry, I just heard Ted Kennedy ask a question about ethics....

Mi_chief_fan · 01-17-2001, 06:02 AM

If Ashcroft is a 'good guy', then how in the world did he lose to a posthumous Carnahan?

To me, that speaks volumes about the guy. Of course, that's all I know about him.

Mark M · 01-17-2001, 07:10 AM

47--
I never said that I played soccer with his son. Out of curiosity, where did you get that idea? :confused:

For those that are interested in some of his decisions, check this site out. This gives his general record: [url]http://www.opposeashcroft.com/facts/all.phtml[/url].

Here is one on his civil rights record: [url]http://www.opposeashcroft.com/facts/civil.phtml[/url]

And here is his 1st ammendment and religious record: [url]http://www.opposeashcroft.com/facts/first.phtml[/url]

I know this is a leftist site, but it does state the facts.

I'm still not sure about the guy. I watched some footage of his hearing and he seemed like he would do a good job, even saying he would look at the law (my main point). But I ask this: If he is so strong in his religious beliefs, how can he just throw them aside and say he'll support such things as [i]Roe v. Wade[/i]? Either he's full of it, or his convictions aren't that strong.

MM
~~Hoping that, if elected, Ashcroft doesn't start speaking in tongues.

[Edited by Mark M on 01-17-2001 at 07:24 AM]

Gaz · 01-17-2001, 07:53 AM

[quote] Either he's full of it, or his convictions aren't that strong.[/quote]

Or perhaps he takes his oath of office seriously…

xoxo~
gaz
just tossing out another possibility.

Oxford · 01-17-2001, 07:56 AM

(Mark M) Facts according to who? I watched "killer Ted" Kennedy get up on his sanctimonious high horse about the school district mess in StL and StL County. What a distortion of the "facts". Why is it that someone who will stand by his principles is vilified and someone who lies and does the exact opposite is hailed as enlightened? Excuse me, I must go to the bathroom and make another Ted Kennedy. At least I'll be able to flush this one down the commode

Mark M · 01-17-2001, 08:15 AM

Gaz--
I see your point. I just find it hard to believe that someone can just ignore the strong convictions he's held for so long. The guy is a career politician and knows that he needs to say the right things (no pun intended) in order to get accepted for the position. I think he will be accepted, and, if so, I hope you are right (again, no pun intended). I'm just not so sure myself. Of course, I'm not a senator so what I think really doesn't amount to much.

Oxford--
They are the facts according to his voting record and what he did as MO Att. Gen. And I am in 100% agreement with you on Kennedy. The guy has no damn business bringing up anyone's ethics. The guy is a freaking murderer for god's sake. If Clinton would've asked for his advice during the Lewinsky scandal, Ted probably would've told him this:
[quote]Take Monica for a drive on a back country road, make sure she's not wearing a seatbelt and, when you get about halfway over the first bridge you come to, take a right.[/quote]
The guy [i]is[/i] a total piece of shit. Make sure you flush well! :D

Everyone must remember that the Republicans did the same thing to Clinton's appointees: They found everything they saw as wrong with their beliefs and convictions and made those the central issues. What comes around goes around.

MM
~~Not a liberal ... just thinks that the record speaks for itself.

01-16-2001, 08:37 PM	#31
NaptownChief Football Pimp Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Indianapolis,IN Casino cash: $9974900	Kyle, I am completely with you on this...Religion has no place in politics whatsoever...In doing so that should completely remove religious stupidity as a legally acceptable excuse for any wrong doing...i.e. allowing a child to suffer because it is against your religious stupidity to receive medical treatment...Or one local example here in Indy is some church is rioting because the IRS confiscated their building cause the lousy SOB's had been cheating the government out of millions on taxes..."That is God's Money"...Whatever, pay your taxes you deadbeats... __________________ "We weren't worth a damn," the Kansas City Chiefs head coach said, shaking his head. "I'm not worth a damn. No one's worth a damn..." Former President of the Eric Downing Fan Club and Current President of the Kris"Secret Weapon"Wilson Fan Club
Posts: 4,357

01-16-2001, 08:42 PM	#32
Raiderhater Tried it on and it fit Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: A Webb of chaos Casino cash: $-1397979	Kyle, I agree with the last part, but disagree with you somewhat on the first. The Constitution says nothing about keeping religion out of government. It does however state the opposite. I agree that really extreme things, such as the examples you gave, have no right coming into our government. Just out of curiosity, do you label Pro Choice as an extreme religious issue that the government has no right getting involved in? I have no idea how this issue is taken on this board (I can only imagine), and I am not trying to start a discussion (fight) on it. I am merely asking to make a point. [Edited by raiderhader on 01-16-2001 at 08:52 PM] __________________ "Serious sport has nothing to do with fair play. It is bound up with hatred, jealousy, boastfulness, and disregard of all the rules." -- George Orwell, Shooting an Elephant
Posts: 29,531

01-16-2001, 08:46 PM	#33
NaptownChief Football Pimp Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Indianapolis,IN Casino cash: $9974900	hader, abortion is just like going to fight for your country...some people might have opinions that are influenced or driven because of religious beliefs but those are issues that exist with or without religion that have to be dealt with. __________________ "We weren't worth a damn," the Kansas City Chiefs head coach said, shaking his head. "I'm not worth a damn. No one's worth a damn..." Former President of the Eric Downing Fan Club and Current President of the Kris"Secret Weapon"Wilson Fan Club
Posts: 4,357

01-16-2001, 08:51 PM	#34
Raiderhater Tried it on and it fit Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: A Webb of chaos Casino cash: $-1397979	JL, that is true, but we pro choicers are often refered to as religious zealots. Wich is why I asked the question. __________________ "Serious sport has nothing to do with fair play. It is bound up with hatred, jealousy, boastfulness, and disregard of all the rules." -- George Orwell, Shooting an Elephant
Posts: 29,531

01-16-2001, 09:02 PM	#35
Raiderhater Tried it on and it fit Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: A Webb of chaos Casino cash: $-1397979	Kyle, you say that you shouldn't keep morality out of politics, but you should religion. George Washington belived the two to be inseperable. "Of all the dispositions and habits, which lead to political prosperity, Religion and Morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of Patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of Men and Citizens. The mere Politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connexions with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked, Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths, which are the instruments of investigation in Courts of Justice? And let us with caution indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect, that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle." From Washington's Farewell Address I happen to agree. How do you seperate the two? __________________ "Serious sport has nothing to do with fair play. It is bound up with hatred, jealousy, boastfulness, and disregard of all the rules." -- George Orwell, Shooting an Elephant
Posts: 29,531

01-15-2001, 10:16 PM
Frazod Did you hear what I said? Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $-576615	I just watched a piece on the news about the coming battle over Ashcroft's nomination as AG. The Demonrats are breaking out the torches and pitchforks over this one. Outside of the basics (anti-affirmative action, anti-abortion, etc.), I don't know much about him - I haven't lived in Missouri since '84. The liberal press paints him as a monster, but I'm curious to hear other opinions.
Posts: 121,712

01-16-2001, 09:12 PM	#36
Cannibal Better to burn out... Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Bible Thumping Country Casino cash: $10010618	So you don't want the government to "control" people's lives, but you do want them to legislate "morality". That's a contradiction. [Edited by Cannibal on 01-16-2001 at 09:14 PM]
Posts: 9,306

01-16-2001, 09:46 PM	#37
Raiderhater Tried it on and it fit Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: A Webb of chaos Casino cash: $-1397979	Cannibal, would not murder be a moral issue? You have to make laws to make it illegal. Government has a role, just not the big one that libs support. __________________ "Serious sport has nothing to do with fair play. It is bound up with hatred, jealousy, boastfulness, and disregard of all the rules." -- George Orwell, Shooting an Elephant
Posts: 29,531

01-16-2001, 10:31 PM	#38
Frazod Did you hear what I said? Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $-576615	For anyone who cares, Nightline is doing a piece on Ashcroft right now.
Posts: 121,712

01-16-2001, 10:42 PM	#39
47mack Lonestar Chief Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Sugarland, Texas (Houston) Casino cash: $10004900	delete please [Edited by 47mack on 01-18-2001 at 11:26 AM] __________________ TWB "I would never do crack... I would never do a drug named after a part of my own ass, okay?" Denis Leary.
Posts: 899

01-16-2001, 10:54 PM	#40
Frazod Did you hear what I said? Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $-576615	Does anyone what Mrs. Carnahan's stand on this is? I would think it would be pretty shameful on her part to oppose him after the classy way he handled himself after her husband's death. I think that alktj s;ltkasj;l. Sorry, I just heard Ted Kennedy ask a question about ethics....
Posts: 121,712

01-17-2001, 06:02 AM	#41
Mi_chief_fan There was an idea..... Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Murfreesboro,TN Casino cash: $9942966	If Ashcroft is a 'good guy', then how in the world did he lose to a posthumous Carnahan? To me, that speaks volumes about the guy. Of course, that's all I know about him. __________________ Bandwagon Predators Fan!
Posts: 3,518

01-17-2001, 07:10 AM	#42
Mark M What time is it? Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: You tell me ... Casino cash: $9884900	47-- I never said that I played soccer with his son. Out of curiosity, where did you get that idea? :confused: For those that are interested in some of his decisions, check this site out. This gives his general record: [url]http://www.opposeashcroft.com/facts/all.phtml[/url]. Here is one on his civil rights record: [url]http://www.opposeashcroft.com/facts/civil.phtml[/url] And here is his 1st ammendment and religious record: [url]http://www.opposeashcroft.com/facts/first.phtml[/url] I know this is a leftist site, but it does state the facts. I'm still not sure about the guy. I watched some footage of his hearing and he seemed like he would do a good job, even saying he would look at the law (my main point). But I ask this: If he is so strong in his religious beliefs, how can he just throw them aside and say he'll support such things as [i]Roe v. Wade[/i]? Either he's full of it, or his convictions aren't that strong. MM ~~Hoping that, if elected, Ashcroft doesn't start speaking in tongues. [Edited by Mark M on 01-17-2001 at 07:24 AM] __________________ ChiefsPlanet -- n. The place where brilliant minds assemble to willfully pool ignorance with questionable logic in order to reach absurd conclusions.
Posts: 4,687

01-17-2001, 07:53 AM	#43
Gaz Defense Homer Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Rancho Gaz Casino cash: $10010793	[quote] Either he's full of it, or his convictions aren't that strong.[/quote] Or perhaps he takes his oath of office seriously… xoxo~ gaz just tossing out another possibility.
Posts: 5,911

01-17-2001, 07:56 AM	#44
Oxford Regular Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Springfield,MO Casino cash: $9605535	(Mark M) Facts according to who? I watched "killer Ted" Kennedy get up on his sanctimonious high horse about the school district mess in StL and StL County. What a distortion of the "facts". Why is it that someone who will stand by his principles is vilified and someone who lies and does the exact opposite is hailed as enlightened? Excuse me, I must go to the bathroom and make another Ted Kennedy. At least I'll be able to flush this one down the commode
Posts: 1,437

01-17-2001, 08:15 AM	#45
Mark M What time is it? Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: You tell me ... Casino cash: $9884900	Gaz-- I see your point. I just find it hard to believe that someone can just ignore the strong convictions he's held for so long. The guy is a career politician and knows that he needs to say the right things (no pun intended) in order to get accepted for the position. I think he will be accepted, and, if so, I hope you are right (again, no pun intended). I'm just not so sure myself. Of course, I'm not a senator so what I think really doesn't amount to much. Oxford-- They are the facts according to his voting record and what he did as MO Att. Gen. And I am in 100% agreement with you on Kennedy. The guy has no damn business bringing up anyone's ethics. The guy is a freaking murderer for god's sake. If Clinton would've asked for his advice during the Lewinsky scandal, Ted probably would've told him this: [quote]Take Monica for a drive on a back country road, make sure she's not wearing a seatbelt and, when you get about halfway over the first bridge you come to, take a right.[/quote] The guy [i]is[/i] a total piece of shit. Make sure you flush well! :D Everyone must remember that the Republicans did the same thing to Clinton's appointees: They found everything they saw as wrong with their beliefs and convictions and made those the central issues. What comes around goes around. MM ~~Not a liberal ... just thinks that the record speaks for itself. __________________ ChiefsPlanet -- n. The place where brilliant minds assemble to willfully pool ignorance with questionable logic in order to reach absurd conclusions.
Posts: 4,687