Tony Gonzalez opens up on Herm with both barrels - Page 3

Hammock Parties · 12-02-2007, 11:04 PM

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chi...ry/387172.html

Chiefs can’t come back against Chargers
By ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star

The Chiefs lost their ability to make enough plays to win close games some time ago. They ran out of explanations shortly afterward.

Now they’re just plain out of gas. They trailed by a mere touchdown for most of the second half of Sunday’s game against San Diego at Arrowhead Stadium, but they might have played until midnight without getting that elusive tying score.

So they wound up losing 24-10, and the defeat pushed the 4-8 Chiefs to the brink of extinction in what passes for a race in the AFC West. They’re officially done if they lose to the Broncos in Denver next week.

The Chiefs tried their usual formula — keep things close until the fourth quarter and make the plays to win it then. It worked for them earlier in the season but again failed on Sunday when they were shut out in the final quarter for the fourth straight game.

“I’m tired of it and don’t want to play this style of football,” Chiefs tight end Tony Gonzalez said. “It’s not what I’m into. I don’t think Herm (Edwards) wants to. We want to win. Let’s get it over with. I don’t want to keep the game close until the second half because we’re a second-half team. That’s bull. Let’s just go out there and win a football game.

“Let’s get rid of that stress. I’m tired of it. I’m sitting on the sideline thinking, ‘Here we go again.’ You can’t help but let those thoughts creep into your mind.”

That crisis of confidence was evident Sunday. Their seven-point deficit for most of the second half felt to them like a lot more.

Things got so bad for the offense that its only touchdown was scored by defensive end Jared Allen, who played on the goal-line ostensibly for blocking purposes. And Allen had to make a great catch of Damon Huard’s fade pass to do it.

“When you’re desperate,” Edwards said, “you do desperate things.”

Edwards hasn’t been desperate enough to change his philosophy on how to win. He defended it again Sunday, saying it’s the only way the Chiefs have a chance.

“We made plays (to win some early-season games),” Edwards said, referring to wins over Minnesota, San Diego and Oakland, all games the Chiefs salvaged in the fourth quarter. “That’s how we won.

“We have to play a certain way. We try to do that to protect the quarterback and make sure we can throw the ball. You have all of these fancy ideas there at the end and there are certain things we’re stuck with because of how we have to play.

“That’s OK. You can still win games that way. We just can’t get behind like that because that just puts you in a bad, bad way.”

The burden of keeping the game close fell to the defense, which again caved in. LaDainian Tomlinson rushed for 117 yards and two touchdowns in the second half.

“We know they’re going to make plays, realistically,” Allen said. “But to (heck) with that. Our mind-set has to be that they won’t make any plays. When stuff like that becomes acceptable, and all of a sudden you find yourself saying, ‘Oh, here we go again,’ that’s when the same (stuff) happens. That’s what’s been happening.

“We need to change the mind-set around here. The mind-set has got to be that this is not acceptable to lose at home. It’s not acceptable to be 10-10 at halftime and lose 24-10.”

The marvel regarding the Chiefs is not the five-game losing streak, their longest since 2000, or the five Arrowhead losses, most since they also lost five in 2001.

It’s that with this team — even with its numerous and obvious flaws — they won four of five games earlier in the season.

“Even then, we had some issues,” guard Brian Waters said. “When you look at games like Chicago and Houston, we had a couple of opportunities to come back in those games as well.

“We’ve started slowly in some parts of the season and now we’re not finishing the way we were. Really, we’re just trying to find a complete game.”

BigRock · 12-02-2007, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

Uh no, this is Herms offense... Solari is just a martyr...

Then why did Tony specifically exclude Herm from what he was saying?

Eleazar · 12-02-2007, 11:25 PM

What was done today that was so bad?

Was it throwing the ball to a defensive end? Was that too conservative?

Was it the multiple trick plays we called?

Going for it on fourth down after what happened last week and giving it to the kid again? That tells Kolby Smith you believe in him.

Was it Huard throwing the ball 35 times (tied for the most attempts he's ever had in a game in his career) We had 40 attempts total today, and if you add in the 8 sacks we called almost 50 pass plays to ~20 or so running plays. Was that was too conservative?

Or was it the fact that we can't block anyone, that we are playing with a stopgap QB and about 4 stopgap players on the line?

Reerun_KC · 12-02-2007, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRock

Then why did Tony specifically exclude Herm from what he was saying?

Well BigRock I dont know?

Maybe it was directed at Dick Curl and Solari?

At this point I would trust satan himself over anything Herm spewed out of him cock holster.

**dirk digler** · 12-02-2007, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cochise

What was done today that was so bad?

Was it throwing the ball to a defensive end? Was that too conservative?

Was it the multiple trick plays we called?

Going for it on fourth down after what happened last week and giving it to the kid again? That tells Kolby Smith you believe in him.

Was it Huard throwing the ball 35 times (tied for the most attempts he's ever had in a game in his career) We had 40 attempts total today, and if you add in the 8 sacks we called almost 50 pass plays. Was that was too conservative?

Or was it the fact that we can't block anyone, that we are playing with a stopgap QB and about 4 stopgap players on the line?

Only scoring 10pts.

Right now the Chiefs are averaging 14.3 pts a game. On this losing streak they are averaging 14 and 4 of those games were at home. Pathetic.

**cdcox** · 12-02-2007, 11:29 PM

It is really self-fulfilling prophesy. Herm wants to win games in the fourth quarter, so he plays the whole game in order to make that happen. The offense just keeps getting worse and worse as he scales things back more and more. He breeds self-doubt in the offense.

Eleazar · 12-02-2007, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler

Only scoring 10pts.

Right now the Chiefs are averaging 14.3 pts a game. On this losing streak they are averaging 14 and 4 of those games were at home. Pathetic.

I don't see how this game is on Herm. Everyone complained that he wouldn't throw the ball around, and with Croyle, they didn't. But he didn't kill us with playcalling today. Hell Solari's game looked more like Mike Martz today in terms of pass/run.

I don't remember seeing any kind of a call were I was like "That's herm, being conservative."

Reerun_KC · 12-02-2007, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdcox

It is really self-fulfilling prophesy. Herm wants to win games in the fourth quarter, so he plays the whole game in order to make that happen. The offense just keeps getting worse and worse as he scales things back more and more. He breeds self-doubt in the offense.

He has been doing that since day one!

**dirk digler** · 12-02-2007, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdcox

It is really self-fulfilling prophesy. Herm wants to win games in the fourth quarter, so he plays the whole game in order to make that happen. The offense just keeps getting worse and worse as he scales things back more and more. He breeds self-doubt in the offense.

Yep that is exactly what Tony is trying to say.

**cdcox** · 12-02-2007, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cochise

What was done today that was so bad?

It's not one day. It is cummulative since the day he got here and started telling Trent Green he has to quit taking risks with the ball. The effects are cummulative. We just keep getting worse and worse. The things that worked last year don't work this year, even after we supposedly upgraded the OL and recieving corp. That is a sign of a bad coach.

Reerun_KC · 12-02-2007, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cochise

I don't see how this game is on Herm. Everyone complained that he wouldn't throw the ball around, and with Croyle, they didn't. But he didn't kill us with playcalling today. Hell Solari's game looked more like Mike Martz today in terms of pass/run.

I don't remember seeing any kind of a call were I was like "That's herm, being conservative."

But that doesnt mean the players trust the HC and have confidence that he will put them in a position to succeed. Without that, the players wont give 100% for that coach.

Herm is way to negative to be a head coach. He started bashing the prior coaching staff from day one for validation... That right there shows that he is a weak minded individual.

**dirk digler** · 12-02-2007, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cochise

I don't see how this game is on Herm. Everyone complained that he wouldn't throw the ball around, and with Croyle, they didn't. But he didn't kill us with playcalling today. Hell Solari's game looked more like Mike Martz today in terms of pass/run.

I don't remember seeing any kind of a call were I was like "That's herm, being conservative."

I agree. While watching the game I thought wow they really opened up this O since Damon is the QB.

Also I think because the Chargers aren't very good against the pass it was a favorable matchup to throw the ball.

Reerun_KC · 12-02-2007, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdcox

It's not one day. It is cummulative since the day he got here and started telling Trent Green he has to quit taking risks with the ball. The effects are cummulative. We just keep getting worse and worse. The things that worked last year don't work this year, even after we supposedly upgraded the OL and recieving corp. That is a sign of a bad coach.

Your on a roll tonight!

Eleazar · 12-02-2007, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler

I agree. While watching the game I thought wow they really opened up this O since Damon is the QB.

Also I think because the Chargers aren't very good against the pass it was a favorable matchup to throw the ball.

I think they are mistaken to coddle Croyle so much. Definitely. They should let him do what Damon tried to do today.

But I don't buy at all that Herm hates passing and all that. He has a different tolerance for risk than most coaches. Too low for most of our tastes including mine. But why this comment and why today? He didn't kill us today.

Call out the linemen for looking like they've quit, call out Huard for not being able to hit a receiver in the numbers... put the blame where it belongs. JMO

**dirk digler** · 12-02-2007, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdcox

It's not one day. It is cummulative since the day he got here and started telling Trent Green he has to quit taking risks with the ball. The effects are cummulative. We just keep getting worse and worse. The things that worked last year don't work this year, even after we supposedly upgraded the OL and recieving corp. That is a sign of a bad coach.

Yep also a couple of people on the radio today mentioned how they saw the Chiefs run the EXACT same pass play 4 times in the game. Now when AS was here heck he wouldn't run the exact same play in 4-5 games. This team and play calling is way to predictable.

Reerun_KC · 12-02-2007, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cochise

I think they are mistaken to coddle Croyle so much. Definitely. They should let him do what Damon tried to do today.

But I don't buy at all that Herm hates passing and all that. He has a different tolerance for risk than most coaches. Too low for most of our tastes including mine. But why this comment and why today? He didn't kill us today.

Call out the linemen for looking like they've quit, call out Huard for not being able to hit a receiver in the numbers... put the blame where it belongs. JMO

True Cochise, but Herm has shattered everyones confidence in the offense including the players...

To me, the way I see it, the players are losing faith in their Head coach. Not a good thing to happen for the team...

12-02-2007, 11:04 PM
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $1000478	Tony Gonzalez opens up on Herm with both barrels http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chi...ry/387172.html Chiefs can’t come back against Chargers By ADAM TEICHER The Kansas City Star The Chiefs lost their ability to make enough plays to win close games some time ago. They ran out of explanations shortly afterward. Now they’re just plain out of gas. They trailed by a mere touchdown for most of the second half of Sunday’s game against San Diego at Arrowhead Stadium, but they might have played until midnight without getting that elusive tying score. So they wound up losing 24-10, and the defeat pushed the 4-8 Chiefs to the brink of extinction in what passes for a race in the AFC West. They’re officially done if they lose to the Broncos in Denver next week. The Chiefs tried their usual formula — keep things close until the fourth quarter and make the plays to win it then. It worked for them earlier in the season but again failed on Sunday when they were shut out in the final quarter for the fourth straight game. “I’m tired of it and don’t want to play this style of football,” Chiefs tight end Tony Gonzalez said. “It’s not what I’m into. I don’t think Herm (Edwards) wants to. We want to win. Let’s get it over with. I don’t want to keep the game close until the second half because we’re a second-half team. That’s bull. Let’s just go out there and win a football game. “Let’s get rid of that stress. I’m tired of it. I’m sitting on the sideline thinking, ‘Here we go again.’ You can’t help but let those thoughts creep into your mind.” That crisis of confidence was evident Sunday. Their seven-point deficit for most of the second half felt to them like a lot more. Things got so bad for the offense that its only touchdown was scored by defensive end Jared Allen, who played on the goal-line ostensibly for blocking purposes. And Allen had to make a great catch of Damon Huard’s fade pass to do it. “When you’re desperate,” Edwards said, “you do desperate things.” Edwards hasn’t been desperate enough to change his philosophy on how to win. He defended it again Sunday, saying it’s the only way the Chiefs have a chance. “We made plays (to win some early-season games),” Edwards said, referring to wins over Minnesota, San Diego and Oakland, all games the Chiefs salvaged in the fourth quarter. “That’s how we won. “We have to play a certain way. We try to do that to protect the quarterback and make sure we can throw the ball. You have all of these fancy ideas there at the end and there are certain things we’re stuck with because of how we have to play. “That’s OK. You can still win games that way. We just can’t get behind like that because that just puts you in a bad, bad way.” The burden of keeping the game close fell to the defense, which again caved in. LaDainian Tomlinson rushed for 117 yards and two touchdowns in the second half. “We know they’re going to make plays, realistically,” Allen said. “But to (heck) with that. Our mind-set has to be that they won’t make any plays. When stuff like that becomes acceptable, and all of a sudden you find yourself saying, ‘Oh, here we go again,’ that’s when the same (stuff) happens. That’s what’s been happening. “We need to change the mind-set around here. The mind-set has got to be that this is not acceptable to lose at home. It’s not acceptable to be 10-10 at halftime and lose 24-10.” The marvel regarding the Chiefs is not the five-game losing streak, their longest since 2000, or the five Arrowhead losses, most since they also lost five in 2001. It’s that with this team — even with its numerous and obvious flaws — they won four of five games earlier in the season. “Even then, we had some issues,” guard Brian Waters said. “When you look at games like Chicago and Houston, we had a couple of opportunities to come back in those games as well. “We’ve started slowly in some parts of the season and now we’re not finishing the way we were. Really, we’re just trying to find a complete game.”
Posts: 296,770

12-02-2007, 11:25 PM	#32
Eleazar Beyond the Rapids Join Date: May 2003 Location: Langley, VA Casino cash: $-370000	What was done today that was so bad? Was it throwing the ball to a defensive end? Was that too conservative? Was it the multiple trick plays we called? Going for it on fourth down after what happened last week and giving it to the kid again? That tells Kolby Smith you believe in him. Was it Huard throwing the ball 35 times (tied for the most attempts he's ever had in a game in his career) We had 40 attempts total today, and if you add in the 8 sacks we called almost 50 pass plays to ~20 or so running plays. Was that was too conservative? Or was it the fact that we can't block anyone, that we are playing with a stopgap QB and about 4 stopgap players on the line?
Posts: 80,659

12-02-2007, 11:29 PM	#35
cdcox www.nfl-forecast.com Join Date: Sep 2000 Casino cash: $-478231	It is really self-fulfilling prophesy. Herm wants to win games in the fourth quarter, so he plays the whole game in order to make that happen. The offense just keeps getting worse and worse as he scales things back more and more. He breeds self-doubt in the offense.
Posts: 46,032