I don't have faith any Clark Hunt

[RedThat]

I really don't.

I know we all blame Carl, Herm, Gunther, and the rest of the Crew..but really it boils down to ownership. That is the root of the problem and the reason to why the Chiefs suck badly. I don't see any passion or desire for winning? The biggest controversy in Kansas City is a difference of perspectives from the fans and ownership. Fans care and are passionate about football, ownership on the other hand doesn't seem like it.

Why are these FO guys here? Because Clark is allowing them to be here. Which is a joke. I can't think of any team in professional sports that retains the services of an "underachieving GM"..I can't think of one.

I know their is loyalty, and an establishment of relationships between the people you work with blah, blah...but what about winning and results? Why have the Chiefs had more losing seasons throughout the history of their franchise then winning? I think this ownership either needs to change, or shift their thinking to please the fanbase. Because that it is all about. The fans and ownership need to be on the same page and it doesn't seem like its happening.

*So really Im not going to blame Carl, or Herm, or Gunther for this atrocious disaster for this embarrasment that is going on, bad embarrasments that this franchise might be on pace for setting embarassing records on defense...And why no comments from the owner?!? its ridiculous..its joke and it speaks high volumes about what this franchise really is

[Fish]

Originally Posted by RedBull

FA is good and can work to a teams favor. Im not one of those that thinks it's all draft or nothing. You build your team through the draft yes, but also FA and trades. The problem I have with this franchise is they think it's all draft. And thats just nonsense. Talk about building your team with a closed mind?

It's all about being smart. It's working within the markets demands and seeing if the market has the BPA that can satisfy positions of need on your team. Of course that FA has to be the right fit for your team. One year the market will be full of LB's for example, next year it may be full of DB's?

Obviously if your team is stacked with LB's your not gonna go and sign an expensive FA LB?

If you need a LBer on other hand, you may want to make that splash? Take this year for example. Vilma is out there, MLB is a position of need for the Chiefs. Would it be wise to take a chance on a guy like Vilma? Maybe? Maybe not? But we do know the Chiefs could use a stud at MLB? And it is a position of need. Now will they go after Vilma? I highly doubt it. Because thats not how this franchise operates. I swear there were numerous times where I seen BPA out there that would satisfy positions of need on the Chiefs and the Chiefs just let these players pass them by.

*I also want to comment, FA is like anything else though? Even the draft, if you don't draft well it hurts your franchise and can be a major setback. It's all about making the right moves. Everything is hit or miss my friend. The draft, FA, trades are all the same way. Hit or miss.

I agree. But why are you criticizing Clark then? Do you expect him to be perfect despite admitting yourself that the entire process is hit or miss?

I'm not defending Clark here, but you've stated yourself how difficult the process can be.

[RedThat]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

I agree. But why are you criticizing Clark then? Do you expect him to be perfect despite admitting yourself that the entire process is hit or miss?

I'm not defending Clark here, but you've stated yourself how difficult the process can be.

We don't live in a perfect world, so I don't expect Clark to be perfect.

But I expect a different approach more of an aggresive approach, more effort towards FA.

Dude, look at the moves he's made in FA the last 2 years. thats should speak high volumes about him and his franchise. A lot of these guys are journeyman, and really thats all they are. You're not gonna improve your team by adding journeyman type players. The odd time you may luck out on signing a backup who can excel playing on a starting role on your team?
But how often does that happen? Very seldomly.

And the Chiefs always do this. They'll always sign a backup player throw him into a starting role and pray and hope that player excells on the team. That's not a correct approach. And thats where the criticism comes in. More often then not, the Chiefs will sign a journeyman player out there, rather then taking a chance on a superstar player?

It happens always. And thats my problem I have with this franchise and why it is a joke. of course then it can be vice versa? You sign a superstar, and he may not be worth what you paid him? He may flop, may not. Its a chance you take like everything else. The Chiefs for some reason don't ever take chances on high priced superstar FA's.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by RedBull

We don't live in a perfect world, so I don't expect Clark to be perfect.

But I expect a different approach more of an aggresive approach, more effort towards FA.

Dude, look at the moves he's made in FA the last 2 years. thats should speak high volumes about him and his franchise. A lot of these guys are journeyman, and really thats all they are. You're not gonna improve your team by adding journeyman type players. The odd time you may luck out on signing a backup who can excel playing on a starting role on your team?
But how often does that happen? Very seldomly.

And the Chiefs always do this. They'll always sign a backup player throw him into a starting role and pray and hope that player excells on the team. That's not a correct approach. And thats where the criticism comes in. More often then not, the Chiefs will sign a journeyman player out there, rather then taking a chance on a superstar player?

It happens always. And thats my problem I have with this franchise and why it is a joke. of course then it can be vice versa? You sign a superstar, and he may not be worth what you paid him? He may flop, may not. Its a chance you take like everything else. The Chiefs for some reason don't ever take chances on high priced superstar FA's.

Well, you've already said yourself how risky the approach you're suggesting can be. Some teams are more conservative with superstar FAs. That's just the way it is. And it's not like the approach you're suggesting has been proven to be a much better approach. In fact, in most cases it's been the opposite. Teams like Washington, Oakland, etc have been known to throw money at every superstar FA possible despite the current state of the team, and it's backfired for them. You can't really say Clark has been a failure because he hasn't taken that risky approach. He deserves his criticism, but his FA approach doesn't prove him to be a failure. You may not agree with it, but that doesn't make it a failure.

[Mr. Laz]

Clark took over years ago

i believe it was really Clark who gave Carl he's last contract extension.


i fully expect Herm and Carl to both be back next year.

[RedThat]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

Well, you've already said yourself how risky the approach you're suggesting can be. Some teams are more conservative with superstar FAs. That's just the way it is. And it's not like the approach you're suggesting has been proven to be a much better approach. In fact, in most cases it's been the opposite. Teams like Washington, Oakland, etc have been known to throw money at every superstar FA possible despite the current state of the team, and it's backfired for them. You can't really say Clark has been a failure because he hasn't taken that risky approach. He deserves his criticism, but his FA approach doesn't prove him to be a failure. You may not agree with it, but that doesn't make it a failure.

You know what I do? I always look at the results. Because that's the bottomline!

you said Clarks FA approach doesn't prove him to be a failure? well, my friend, honestly, I disagree with you. Because it has made him a failure.

When I look at the Chiefs signings in FA I see journeyman type players.

Honestly, Devard darling was supposed to the Chiefs #2 WR. As we all know, that signing hasn't made an impact at all.

Alphonso Boone who was a backup in Chicago, a good depth guy for your defensive front, but you know something? thats all he is? According to the Chiefs, they thought he could start?

Damion McIntosh who probably wouldn't start on most teams is a starter on the Chiefs and a very bad one.

Adrian Jones is another guy who was waived by the jets. And is also a very bad starter on the Chiefs offensive line. Why is the offensive line bad? Gee, look at the signings? Jones, and McIntosh. yay! And we all know having a good offensive line is an intergral part of success in football. To see the Chiefs just patchwork the line as a fan makes me sick to my stomach.

How about Pat Thomas and Demmorrio Williams? 2 starters on the linebacking core. Who are backups. thomas was cut by Jacksonville for a reason? hes not good. And hes a starter on the Chiefs. An important position once again just being patched up by the Chiefs.

Just look at these guys the Chiefs sign? Did any of these guys improve Clark Hunts team? I think we all know the answer to that question. Its definately part of the reason clark is a failure.

[BigVE]

"I don't have faith any Clark Hunt"


Title thread sense makes no.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by BigVE

"I don't have faith any Clark Hunt"


Title thread sense makes no.

[RedThat]

Originally Posted by BigVE

"I don't have faith any Clark Hunt"


Title thread sense makes no.

Title thread make sense any?

[chiefzilla1501]

I agree, but there are two things to keep in mind: #1) Carl Peterson left this team a mess, which left us with little cap space to deal with and a lot of dead contract guys like Wesley and Bell who were just sucking up cap space; #2) Carl Peterson has never been good at bringing in free agents--he's such a stubborn prick that high-priced free agents won't touch him. So instead, Peterson takes the cream of the 2nd-rate crop and overpays them.

Point being... I don't think Hunt can ever build a legacy until he gets rid of Carl Peterson. I'm just trying to be optimistic here. It doesn't matter who owns this team, nothing will change or improve until Peterson is gone, and I would be shocked if he was extended past 2009. I doubt he'll be fired next season, but I highly doubt that will happen when hunt has the option to let Peterson leave gracefully in 2009.

But I have no argument against the rebuild. We all knew we'd have to lose some games before we won some. The goal this season was not to find 22 starters, but to fill in as many holes as we can. We've done a real good job with that, even if some of the guys we have starting today will only serve as quality depth in the future--that's still important to have.

Originally Posted by RedBull

And thats the problem? The Chiefs sign "average" guys...Very rarely do you ever see them take chances on real impact players? Never seems to happen and thats the reason this franchise is what it is?

I've seen plenty of "impact" players out there sign with other teams and make a difference. I can name so many? Look at Chris Hope and what hes doing in Tennessee? Signed as a FA there and making a difference in their defense. Arguably one of the most underrated Safeties in the league. Drew Brees is a world of a difference in NO...Joey Porter is racking up sacks in Miami. Turns out Michael Turner was a great pickup for Atlanta. Burress made a difference with the Giants and so did Antonio Pierce. Key contributors to helping that team win a bowl. And how about Kurt Warner? Awesome pickup by the Cards!

To say FA isnt the answer, chiefzilla1501 that is nonsense and totally incorrect sir. The Chiefs just dont make a strong enough effort to make a splash and sign guys thatll make a difference on their team like other teams do. thats the problem. Its another way to improve your football team.

Either they're too cheap or have an assessment, evaluation problem?

What do you expect from FA when you sign guys like Devard Darling, Demorrio Williams, Alphonso Boone, an "old" Donnie Edwards, Damion Mcintosh, heck who else? Am I missing anybody? Oh yeah Adrian Jones wow great pickup there? And Ron Edwards?

All Junk players. Scrapes from the bottom of the pile that no other teams want. Therefore you get a sh*t team as a result.

*Id like to see this team go after Julius Peppers, or Haynesworth...see what adifference those guys make because their Probowl impact players. Of course that would be too good to be true. They'll feed the fanbase the excuse "how we gotta go young", we want to build this team through the draft yada yada...If they suck, "were rebuilding"...Meanwhile Clark is being a cheap SOB.

[Skip Towne]

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990

Clark has a HUGE opputunity after this season to make a statement about what he wants for this team.


Fire Peterson and the fanbase will rejoice. Heck, he could bring in Matt Millen to replace him and the fans would still rejoice.


Or stand pat and risk losing an even more sizable chunk of his fanbase.


This offseason will tell me all i need to know about Clark Hunt.

"And the villagers rejoiced"

[chiefsngop]

When you have Gunther Cunningham putting such a miserable product on the field and then calling it "his best coaching job ever".

It becomes his boss's job to force accountability on him since he will not do it himself.

Obviously CP isn't doing his job if these guys aren't scared to say sh*t like that in the media, so Clark must do it.

I look at it from a business model standpoint.

What should a CEO of a corporation do, if one of his regional sales managers just posted the absolute worst quarterly numbers in the history of the company, and then turned around and called it the "best job he's ever done." ?

It'd be time for that CEO to force a little accountability on the guy, same thing for Clark and these coaches.

If these coaches are really as happy with themselves as they claim to be in the media, it becomes Hunt's job to steal their happiness and welcome them back to reality.

[ChiefsCountry]

Originally Posted by RedBull

You know what I do? I always look at the results. Because that's the bottomline!

you said Clarks FA approach doesn't prove him to be a failure? well, my friend, honestly, I disagree with you. Because it has made him a failure.

When I look at the Chiefs signings in FA I see journeyman type players.

Honestly, Devard darling was supposed to the Chiefs #2 WR. As we all know, that signing hasn't made an impact at all.

Alphonso Boone who was a backup in Chicago, a good depth guy for your defensive front, but you know something? thats all he is? According to the Chiefs, they thought he could start?

Damion McIntosh who probably wouldn't start on most teams is a starter on the Chiefs and a very bad one.

Adrian Jones is another guy who was waived by the jets. And is also a very bad starter on the Chiefs offensive line. Why is the offensive line bad? Gee, look at the signings? Jones, and McIntosh. yay! And we all know having a good offensive line is an intergral part of success in football. To see the Chiefs just patchwork the line as a fan makes me sick to my stomach.

How about Pat Thomas and Demmorrio Williams? 2 starters on the linebacking core. Who are backups. thomas was cut by Jacksonville for a reason? hes not good. And hes a starter on the Chiefs. An important position once again just being patched up by the Chiefs.

Just look at these guys the Chiefs sign? Did any of these guys improve Clark Hunts team? I think we all know the answer to that question. Its definately part of the reason clark is a failure.

And when they signed big name free agents those sucked ass too. Does McGlockton, Derrick Alexander, Kendrell Bell, Vonnie Holliday ring a bell?

Shit I think some of you just bitch to bitch. For the first time in a long time the team is actually building the team right away. Going out signing a ton of free agents isnt the way to do it. You sign a free agent to fill a whole when you are close to get you over the top. We arent close enough. Now around 2010 or so then we should be bitching about not signing free agents.

[Cormac]

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990

Heck, he could bring in Matt Millen to replace him and the fans would still rejoice.

DEAR GOD.....speak for yourself!

[Cormac]

Originally Posted by RedBull

And thats the problem? The Chiefs sign "average" guys...Very rarely do you ever see them take chances on real impact players? Never seems to happen and thats the reason this franchise is what it is?

No offense but this argument always makes me laugh. Look at a few of the names we signed in recent offseasons.....

Ty Law
Johnnie Morton
Shawn Barber
Kendrell Bell
Vonnie Holliday
etc.

Now I KNOW these all sucked when they got here. But they were BIG signings at the time. KC was one of the most active teams signing FAs during a few recent offseasons. It didn't work. That's for damn sure. But they tried.

Final disclaimer: I am not defending CP in any way shape or form, but this sort of selective memory is annoying.

[chiefsngop]

Originally Posted by Cormac

No offense but this argument always makes me laugh. Look at a few of the names we signed in recent offseasons.....

Ty Law
Johnnie Morton
Shawn Barber
Kendrell Bell
Vonnie Holliday
etc.

Now I KNOW these all sucked when they got here. But they were BIG signings at the time. KC was one of the most active teams signing FAs during a few recent offseasons. It didn't work. That's for damn sure. But they tried.

Final disclaimer: I am not defending CP in any way shape or form, but this sort of selective memory is annoying.

Proving that the key to free agent signing is usually (not always, but usually) to sign a guy coming off his FIRST NFL contract, and avoid guys that have already played out 2 or 3 contracts.

Even though it's the most productive way, it's also the most expensive. The #2 NFL contract that players sign is usually the top dollar one as they've established themselves as real NFL players, but are still young and ascending.

IMO that's why Carl has avoided by and large this type of Free Agent, (the 2nd contract guys) as they're the most expensive, and as we all know King Carl is a penny pincher.