News Video of Police shooting man 30+ times - Page 3

Mr. Laz · 08-17-2012, 01:06 PM

Video captures Michigan man's shooting by police
http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/16/us/mic...ing/index.html

From Jason Carroll and Sheila Steffen, CNN
updated 10:12 AM EDT, Fri August 17, 2012

Man killed by cops, shot multiple times

STORY HIGHLIGHTS

Milton Hall was killed in a confrontation with police in Saginaw, Michigan
"It appeared to be a firing squad dressed in police uniforms," his mother says
Prosecutors and state police are investigating Hall's killing
His family says he was mentally ill and questions why the probe is taking so long

Saginaw, Michigan (CNN) -- Three days before Independence Day, Milton Hall died in a fusillade of police gunfire outside a strip mall.
He had been arguing with officers in a parking lot next to a shuttered Chinese restaurant when he was shot, in full view of passing motorists and while he was holding some sort of knife. Saginaw County Prosecutor Michael Thomas said later that the squad of police confronting him opened fire "because apparently, at this point in time, he was threatening to assault police."

Thomas' office and the Michigan State Police are investigating Hall's death. Saginaw Police Chief Gerald Cliff said Hall was "known to be an assaultive person" with "a long history" of contacts with law enforcement, "not only with police from our department but with the county."
Hall's cousin, Mike Washington, acknowledged Hall had been jailed for minor offenses like vagrancy in the past, but, "He was not violent." And Hall's mother is growing impatient with the probe and questions why police opened fire so furiously on her son, whom she said was mentally ill.

The chart blog: Mental health

"It appeared to be a firing squad dressed in police uniforms," Jewel Hall told CNN from her hometown of Albuquerque, New Mexico. "There was another way. They did not have to kill him. He had not done anything. He was not violent. He was not a murderer. He was not a criminal."
Jewel Hall said her son had once trained as a civil right activist, been an avid reader and played football. He had lived in Saginaw for 35 years and received Social Security disability payments for a mental illness, but, "He knew his rights."

"Everybody knew him. The police knew him well," she said. "So that's another question: they knew him, so why? Why did they kill him?"

WJRT: Community questions police shooting

The July 1 shooting happened in a parking lot on West Genessee Avenue, a busy commercial strip on the north side of Saginaw. In a video purchased by CNN, shot by a motorist from across the street, the 49-year-old Hall is seen arguing with a half-dozen officers. For more than three minutes, he walks back and forth, and at one time appears to crouch in a "karate stance," according to the man who captured the scene.

Police said Hall had just had a run-in with a convenience store clerk. On the video, he tells police, "My name is Milton Hall, I just called 911. My name is Milton, and I'm p---ed off." When an officer tells him to put the knife down, he responds, "I ain't putting s--t down." He appears unimpressed by a police dog, telling officers, "Let him go. Let the motherf---ing dog go."

Finally, he turns to the left of the frame, where another officer had moved out of view a short time earlier. It's then that the police open fire with a reported 46 shots in a five-second hail of bullets.
"I'm stunned that six human beings would stand in front of one human being and fire 46 shots," Jewel Hall said. "I just don't understand that. It's a lot of pain in that because it only takes one shot, so the question is why?"

She questioned why none of the cameras in the police cars at the scene recorded the shooting -- "none of them work."

"So that's the question I have and the community has is, what's taking so long?" she said. "Why is not being transparent?"

Lou Palumbo, a former Long Island police officer, told CNN's "Anderson Cooper 360" that the video is "a perceptive nightmare" for a police department and could reflect a lack of training by the officers.

"This wasn't a scenario where he was discharging a weapon in their direction," he said.

But Palumbo added that the shooting may yet be determined to be justifiable. "One of the things the public has to understand, an individual wielding a knife at you at about 20 feet can be on top of you in a split second," he said. "The public doesn't know this because they don't do this for a living."

Neither state police nor the prosecutor's office would comment on the investigation. In a written statement to CNN, the state police said, "Our focus is on conducting a complete and thorough investigation, rather than a hasty one."

But Saginaw City Councilman Norman Braddock, who also has criticized the pace of the investigation, said the probe should be a "top priority."
When CNN showed Braddock the video, which he hadn't seen before, he said, "This is disturbing."

"I can see what people are traumatized at, looking at something like that," Braddock said. "We need answers."

Jewel Hall said her family is conducting its own investigation into the shooting, "and at the end of that investigation we will decide what next steps to take with our legal advisors."

ghak99 · 08-17-2012, 01:53 PM

....

I'm not sure what I was expecting to see in the video, but that wasn't it!

I must have missed what he did to set them off, but I don't see any way to defend that amount of force. Assuming there was a threatening move to an officer to the left I missed, 1 shot could have put him down and two could have taken him out.

Not using the dog?.. no voltage?.. no crowd control chemical?.. Maybe the budget cuts in the county jail kitchen have them implementing a whole new game plan.

Chiefnj2 · 08-17-2012, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

That dog costs more than the 30 bullets spent on him. They aren't going to release a dog on a guy with a deadly weapon threatening to use it if they release the dog.

Only 1 conclusion can be made from this... If you have a knife in your hand with 5+ officers with weapons drawn, drop the ****ing knife.

The dogs going to cost a lot less than the legal fees and jury award that goes to the man's family.

**Donger** · 08-17-2012, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

At the 1:58 mark or so the cops are moving in on their victim and you see two cops come out of the bushes.

I'm supremely unconvinced that they were either close enough to be sufficiently threatened to open fire, and that they had exhausted other reasonable means to diffuse the situation.

Seriously, WTF do you spend thousands of dollars training police dogs to do if you're just going to throw a hail of lead at a guy with a KNIFE. Not an Uzi, not even a ****ing pistol. A KNIFE!

Like I said, he has a knife (a deadly weapon), is refusing to drop it, and moves toward a cop.

Chief Gump · 08-17-2012, 01:54 PM

Aren't the police trained to just unload their clip when they open fire?

BIG_DADDY · 08-17-2012, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donger

Like I said, he has a knife (a deadly weapon), is refusing to drop it, and moves toward a cop.

jd1020 · 08-17-2012, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

The dogs going to cost a lot less than the legal fees and jury award that goes to the man's family.

The guy had a deadly weapon in his hand and moved towards officers. What possible money are they going to receive? At most a couple of cops will get suspended for a couple weeks for excessive force.

Mr. Laz · 08-17-2012, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

That dog costs more than the 30 bullets spent on him. They aren't going to release a dog on a guy with a deadly weapon threatening to use it if they release the dog.

Only 1 conclusion can be made from this... If you have a knife in your hand with 5+ officers with weapons drawn, drop the ****ing knife.

absolutely no reason to shoot a guy 30+ times after he dropped like a stone after the 1st shot. None.

I didn't see the guy make any significant move towards anyone.

a single shot the the leg would of be enough, if not a single shot to the kneecap.

The fact that they ALL shot in unison should be enough to prove intent and get them fired.

complete bullshit

jd1020 · 08-17-2012, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laz

absolutely no reason to shoot a guy 30+ times after he dropped like a stone after the 1st shot. None.

I didn't see the guy make any significant move towards anyone.

a single shot the the leg would of be enough, if not a single shot to the kneecap.

complete bullshit

Single shot to the leg. This aint Hollywood.

Brock · 08-17-2012, 01:58 PM

Same old murdering cop enabling idiots.

tooge · 08-17-2012, 02:00 PM

Meh, I was more bummed about the dog. BTW, is, or should I say was he a midget or was he on his knees that entire time?

BIG_DADDY · 08-17-2012, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock

Same old murdering cop enabling idiots.

It gets more over the top every time.

ReynardMuldrake · 08-17-2012, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laz

kinda my 1st impression too

1. no gun
2. not within 5 feet of another living being

I would think AT MOST it would take a single shot to the leg.

where are all the tazers they use on little old ladies?

The guy was clearly wrong but 30+ shots?

The danger zone for a knife-wielding attacker is more like 20 feet.

And the cops never, ever shoot for the legs. That's silly. It's called lethal force for a reason.

The only point of contention really is the number of rounds fired. I would have to defer to the cops on that one.

Chiefnj2 · 08-17-2012, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

The guy had a deadly weapon in his hand and moved towards officers. What possible money are they going to receive? At most a couple of cops will get suspended for a couple weeks for excessive force.

I'm thinking a jury will award about $200k per bullet fired.

qabbaan · 08-17-2012, 02:01 PM

Deadly force is deadly force. If someone decides to use it, there is no "amount" of deadly force that is justified. It's either justified or it isn't. One shot or a hundred are the same.

My question is just, why didn't they tase him instead. Tasers are for this situation, where it's too dangerous to subdue some violent nut job without using deadly force.

Mr. Laz · 08-17-2012, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

Single shot to the leg. This aint Hollywood.

You're right because unlike Hollywood a single shot will make most people curl up on the ground and cry.

I know because i have been shot.

have you?

08-17-2012, 01:06 PM
Mr. Laz Don't Tease Me Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: KS Casino cash: $11047037	Video of Police shooting man 30+ times Video captures Michigan man's shooting by police http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/16/us/mic...ing/index.html From Jason Carroll and Sheila Steffen, CNN updated 10:12 AM EDT, Fri August 17, 2012 Man killed by cops, shot multiple times STORY HIGHLIGHTS Milton Hall was killed in a confrontation with police in Saginaw, Michigan "It appeared to be a firing squad dressed in police uniforms," his mother says Prosecutors and state police are investigating Hall's killing His family says he was mentally ill and questions why the probe is taking so long Saginaw, Michigan (CNN) -- Three days before Independence Day, Milton Hall died in a fusillade of police gunfire outside a strip mall. He had been arguing with officers in a parking lot next to a shuttered Chinese restaurant when he was shot, in full view of passing motorists and while he was holding some sort of knife. Saginaw County Prosecutor Michael Thomas said later that the squad of police confronting him opened fire "because apparently, at this point in time, he was threatening to assault police." Thomas' office and the Michigan State Police are investigating Hall's death. Saginaw Police Chief Gerald Cliff said Hall was "known to be an assaultive person" with "a long history" of contacts with law enforcement, "not only with police from our department but with the county." Hall's cousin, Mike Washington, acknowledged Hall had been jailed for minor offenses like vagrancy in the past, but, "He was not violent." And Hall's mother is growing impatient with the probe and questions why police opened fire so furiously on her son, whom she said was mentally ill. The chart blog: Mental health "It appeared to be a firing squad dressed in police uniforms," Jewel Hall told CNN from her hometown of Albuquerque, New Mexico. "There was another way. They did not have to kill him. He had not done anything. He was not violent. He was not a murderer. He was not a criminal." Jewel Hall said her son had once trained as a civil right activist, been an avid reader and played football. He had lived in Saginaw for 35 years and received Social Security disability payments for a mental illness, but, "He knew his rights." "Everybody knew him. The police knew him well," she said. "So that's another question: they knew him, so why? Why did they kill him?" WJRT: Community questions police shooting The July 1 shooting happened in a parking lot on West Genessee Avenue, a busy commercial strip on the north side of Saginaw. In a video purchased by CNN, shot by a motorist from across the street, the 49-year-old Hall is seen arguing with a half-dozen officers. For more than three minutes, he walks back and forth, and at one time appears to crouch in a "karate stance," according to the man who captured the scene. Police said Hall had just had a run-in with a convenience store clerk. On the video, he tells police, "My name is Milton Hall, I just called 911. My name is Milton, and I'm p---ed off." When an officer tells him to put the knife down, he responds, "I ain't putting s--t down." He appears unimpressed by a police dog, telling officers, "Let him go. Let the motherf---ing dog go." Finally, he turns to the left of the frame, where another officer had moved out of view a short time earlier. It's then that the police open fire with a reported 46 shots in a five-second hail of bullets. "I'm stunned that six human beings would stand in front of one human being and fire 46 shots," Jewel Hall said. "I just don't understand that. It's a lot of pain in that because it only takes one shot, so the question is why?" She questioned why none of the cameras in the police cars at the scene recorded the shooting -- "none of them work." "So that's the question I have and the community has is, what's taking so long?" she said. "Why is not being transparent?" Lou Palumbo, a former Long Island police officer, told CNN's "Anderson Cooper 360" that the video is "a perceptive nightmare" for a police department and could reflect a lack of training by the officers. "This wasn't a scenario where he was discharging a weapon in their direction," he said. But Palumbo added that the shooting may yet be determined to be justifiable. "One of the things the public has to understand, an individual wielding a knife at you at about 20 feet can be on top of you in a split second," he said. "The public doesn't know this because they don't do this for a living." Neither state police nor the prosecutor's office would comment on the investigation. In a written statement to CNN, the state police said, "Our focus is on conducting a complete and thorough investigation, rather than a hasty one." But Saginaw City Councilman Norman Braddock, who also has criticized the pace of the investigation, said the probe should be a "top priority." When CNN showed Braddock the video, which he hadn't seen before, he said, "This is disturbing." "I can see what people are traumatized at, looking at something like that," Braddock said. "We need answers." Jewel Hall said her family is conducting its own investigation into the shooting, "and at the end of that investigation we will decide what next steps to take with our legal advisors."
Posts: 95,626

08-17-2012, 01:53 PM	#31
ghak99 MVP Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Missouri Casino cash: $-1817750	.... I'm not sure what I was expecting to see in the video, but that wasn't it! I must have missed what he did to set them off, but I don't see any way to defend that amount of force. Assuming there was a threatening move to an officer to the left I missed, 1 shot could have put him down and two could have taken him out. Not using the dog?.. no voltage?.. no crowd control chemical?.. Maybe the budget cuts in the county jail kitchen have them implementing a whole new game plan.
Posts: 9,042

08-17-2012, 01:54 PM	#34
Chief Gump Run dumb ass run Join Date: Jun 2012 Casino cash: $10004900	Aren't the police trained to just unload their clip when they open fire?
Posts: 437

08-17-2012, 01:58 PM	#39
Brock Say hello to my little friend Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Larryville Casino cash: $9598422	Same old murdering cop enabling idiots.
Posts: 47,314

08-17-2012, 02:00 PM	#40
tooge MVP Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Liberty, MO Casino cash: $734112	Meh, I was more bummed about the dog. BTW, is, or should I say was he a midget or was he on his knees that entire time?
Posts: 17,153

08-17-2012, 02:01 PM	#44
qabbaan Veteran Join Date: Jan 2012 Casino cash: $10004900	Deadly force is deadly force. If someone decides to use it, there is no "amount" of deadly force that is justified. It's either justified or it isn't. One shot or a hundred are the same. My question is just, why didn't they tase him instead. Tasers are for this situation, where it's too dangerous to subdue some violent nut job without using deadly force.
Posts: 2,973