Draft Grade - Page 3

kccrow · 04-26-2020, 04:42 PM

Because I know it absolutely pisses people off here.

Overall Grade B

1-32 Clyde Edwards-Helaire, RB, LSU - Grade A

Surrounding Mahomes with weapons is never a bad idea and Clydro will provide him a safety net underneath against zone coverage and he's a solid short-yardage runner that can extend drives. Obviously, I'm not a believer in taking a RB in round 1 but I think returning 20 starters gives the team some form of luxury. I had a higher grade on DE AJ Epenesa who went far later than I expected, so we'll see how that plays out over the next few years. One thing for certain, KC got an immediate contributor at a position that needed added talent.

2-63 Willie Gay, Jr., LB, Mississippi State - Grade D+

If I were grading on effort, the Chiefs would get a solid B but I just don't like the player. Logan Wilson, taken 2 picks later, was widely regarded the better prospect and it wasn't even a debate. Gay, to me personnally, was a guy you take in the late 4th or 5th round as a developmental traits-based guy, but Veach saw the traits and took him much earlier. I think this is a severe reach but if he pans out then Veach will make me look silly. I'm not sure I'm taking that chance this early, especially given the academic fraud and fight with his QB. I think this is a position KC needed an immediate player at and they took a guy I expect to take 2 years to develop, if he ever does. This isn't a F-level bomb job in my opinion but I can't really fathom Gay being the better player over Wilson, who comps favorably to SF stud MLB Fred Warner. Hopefully, I have an A grade on this in 3 years and not the D+ I have today. I'd rather look stupid than smart on this one.

3-96 Lucas Niang, OT, TCU - Grade A

Let me preface with saying Niang is a first-round caliber offensive tackle, no doubt about it. The fact he was a day 2 pick was because of his injury. The fact KC got him at 96 is almost mind-blowing. This is a player I thought KC would have to take at 63 if he even made it that far. This certainly offsets my feelings about the reach for Gay and the draft as a whole. If you told me post draft that it went 1 Niang, 2 Edwards-Helaire, and 3 Gay, I wouldn't have flinched, so that's a plus from a personal angle.

4-138 L'Jarius Sneed, CB/S, Louisiana Tech - Grade A

I really, really like Sneed's tape as a CB. I'm not super high on him as a safety though so the confirmation that KC was looking to play him at CB made me feel really good about this pick. He has speed for days, he's a guy that plays the ball, and he's physical through the route. He doesn't have the hips or the feet you want right out the gate but I think he's really similar to Charvarious Ward and will improve there. The Chiefs had to address defensive backs in this draft and they had me nervous waiting this long. I thought they'd take one early on, especially with Trevon Diggs sitting there as another long and physical guy in round 1.

5-177 Michael Danna, DE, Michigan - Grade C-

This wasn't a guy I was unfamiliar with. I live in Michigan plus I'm an Ohio State fan. I've seen the product at both Central and the U. I think there's some excitement as a physical specimen there but it's more power/explosion based. I think he's a tenancious player that's going to give you everything he can. I think if you leave him out on the edge and let him just do his thing, he's a better player than bumping him down inside at times. Certainly, he doesn't have much length and I don't know if he has enough athleticism to overcome what he lacks there. I think you always look at an initial grade on a player and then you look at what you would have taken instead, because that really backs it up. For me, there were three players sitting there I would have taken long before Danna in Wake Forest LB Justin Strnad to hedge my bets on Willie Gay and provide more on special teams, Michigan WR Donovan Peoples-Jones to plan for DRob and Sammy leaving after 2020, or Kansas OT Hakeem Adeniji who is a guy you plan to kick inside. With Niang on board, Adeniji has less appeal. Honestly, I think I would have opted for Peoples-Jones. I think that if you can unlock that potential he's going to be a really special player. He has the juice to be a Sammy Watkins.

7-237 Thakarius Keyes, CB, Tulane - Grade B+

Count me among those that were thrilled KC gave up a 2021 6th to jump back in and take this guy. He was on my list of late round favorites and I certainly think he has a future if he can prove that he can stay in phase with NFL receivers. I don't like his deep speed, I don't like his hips and feet right now, and I don't like that he opens up to routes too early, allowing receivers to get underneath him. That said, I like his length and his physicality and how he fits with Spags. I think he has some correctable aspects to his game. Pitt CB Dane Jackson went a couple picks later to Buffalo and I think he's just a tad better prospect, but I'm hopeful this kid turns out.

kccrow · 05-20-2020, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26

Also, this team is usually going to gamble on the HR as opposed to the safe pick. It’s our identity as a front office.

And I don’t see how anybody care argue with that approach given how well it’s worked out for them.

Who have they really gambled on that was a huge risk versus reward type?

I'd argue the other athletics traits guys they've went for haven't really worked out. Kpass and Ford are the big ones that come to mind for me.

Reek was a 5th rounder, so not exactly a big risk there.

DJ's left nut · 05-20-2020, 08:33 PM

I'd caution against tossing the 'combine warrior' tag on Gay for one reason only - in this case I think the combine did what it is supposed to do - send teams back to the tape.

Very few guys really explode up real team's draft boards because of the combine anymore. Oh sure, media guys fall in love with them, but that means precisely dick. I know how much you read about this shit and you know as well as I do, the overwhelming majority of teams use the combine to give them a chance to re-consider a guy's tape. Even if they crush the combine, a team's just gonna go back to the tape because of that and if the guy can't play, the combine performance won't do anything other than turn them into a 3rd day flyer when they may have otherwise gone undrafted. It rarely moves you into day 2.

Gay - admittedly for reasons of his own making - just didn't have that much tape. He had less of an opportunity to show out on film and that made him a little more prone to falling under some radars. Then when he went out there and torched the combine, teams went back and made a concerted effort to see what he put on tape.

And yes, he showed those wasted steps, occasional over-aggressiveness and tendency towards being a little raw in his reads. But man, he also showed fantastic coverage tools. Not just on a stopwatch but on a football field. He showed a downhill, hitters mentality. When you made a point to watch him, sure you noticed some flaws, but you also noticed some MAJOR strengths.

I don't think the Chiefs drafted him in the 2nd because of his combine. I think they drafted him because his combine got them to give his tape a 2nd (and 3rd, and probably 4th) look.

I think time will tell us that the Chiefs used the combine exactly as it SHOULD be used in honing in on Gay.

staylor26 · 05-20-2020, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow

Who have they really gambled on that was a huge risk versus reward type?

I'd argue the other athletics traits guys they've went for haven't really worked out. Kpass and Ford are the big ones that come to mind for me.

Reek was a 5th rounder, so not exactly a big risk there.

I’m not talking just about athleticism and I’m also not necessarily talking about risk/reward. I’m talking about upside in general.

Gay, Jones, Kpass, Mahomes, Kelce, Tyreek, Thornhill, Peters, Ford, Hardman, Sneed, Saunders, etc.

All of those guys were/are upside picks, for one reason or another. Some based purely on athleticism, some based on traits, etc.

How can you argue that this team doesn’t clearly draft for upside (not saying you are)?

**The Franchise** · 05-21-2020, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow

Douchebag response as expected knowing original boards were altered 97 times in the process. I'll appease your douchebagedness (yes that's a new CP word now), however and this is at the END of the process.

But here's one that still had Gay below Wilson...
http://www.thehuddlereport.com/valueboard.shtml

Another with Gay as the 11th ranked OLB and slightly lower round range
http://www.draftscout.com/players.ph...XPos&order=ASC
than Wilson as 3rd ranked ILB
http://www.draftscout.com/players.ph...XPos&order=ASC

Or NFL.com with a 6.33 rating on Wilson and a 6.13 on Gay
https://www.nfl.com/draft/tracker/pr...=ALL&year=2020

So what you’re telling me is that you have no clue how teams actually rated these two.

Chris Meck · 05-23-2020, 10:36 AM

I think it's one thing to armchair GM if you have a shit team, or a demonstrably shit GM.

It's another thing when you're kind of a middle of the pack-almost there type team, which we've been for years.

And it's yet another thing when your young GM has built a Super Bowl winner, completely remaking the defensive side of the ball on the fly.

I'll say there are some picks there that I don't understand, like Danna. I'm not sure what they're thinking there. They're thinking something, and I assume at some point I'll see it.

But I wouldn't even try at this point to assume that I know more about it than Veach, Spags, or Daly.

They have earned the right to show me without my second-guessing.

My favorite picks of the draft: Clyde and Niang. I expect both to be studs.

Biggest HR swing: Gay. If he refines his game, he'll be a force.

kccrow · 05-23-2020, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Franchise

So what you’re telling me is that you have no clue how teams actually rated these two.

What the **** does that have to do with anything you reeruned ****wit?

I'm going to shit all over this place the entire ****ing offseason next year as you reeruns prognosticate and then prance around your little half-baked mock draft.

kccrow · 05-23-2020, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

I think it's one thing to armchair GM if you have a shit team, or a demonstrably shit GM.

It's another thing when you're kind of a middle of the pack-almost there type team, which we've been for years.

And it's yet another thing when your young GM has built a Super Bowl winner, completely remaking the defensive side of the ball on the fly.

I'll say there are some picks there that I don't understand, like Danna. I'm not sure what they're thinking there. They're thinking something, and I assume at some point I'll see it.

But I wouldn't even try at this point to assume that I know more about it than Veach, Spags, or Daly.

They have earned the right to show me without my second-guessing.

My favorite picks of the draft: Clyde and Niang. I expect both to be studs.

Biggest HR swing: Gay. If he refines his game, he'll be a force.

****ing stupid statement. That's what this entire forum is based upon.

**The Franchise** · 05-23-2020, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow

What the **** does that have to do with anything you reeruned ****wit?

I'm going to shit all over this place the entire ****ing offseason next year as you reeruns prognosticate and then prance around your little half-baked mock draft.

And then I’ll just ban your dumbass from the draft forum.

TRR · 05-24-2020, 07:02 AM

Loved the Edwards-Helaire pick. Having your pick of the RB litter while filling a large hole is tremendous value. Veach played it well as Swift, Taylor, Akers, Dobbins, and Dillon all went before KC’s pick in round 2.

Gay was a bit of surprise in round 2 with such limited play in college. I’m not worried about the cheating scandal. More worried about punching his starting QB going into a Bowl game. That brings red flags for me. However, when on the field, you can see what Veach loves. He’s athletic, physical, nasty. He’ll play early.

Niang looks like a steal in round 3. Could be the future at RT. Could play early at Guard. Provides great depth in the meantime.

This is where the draft went a little sideways for me. I would have loved Bryce Hall in the 4th. Maybe there is more to his injury than we know. But the idea of he and Thornhill would have been fun. Instead, they take Sneed who was arguably the second best CB on a LA Tech team that moved him to safety. Not sold. Danna is a head-scratcher. Small school guy who didn’t get a ton of playing time after transferring to Michigan. Also doesn’t look the part of a Spags DE. Took a late flyer on Keyes...neither high or low on him.

Really impressed with their UDFA haul. I think Lavert Hill could not only make the team, but play before Sneed or Keyes. They scored their new punter/holder in Townsend, and added a few WR’s that had draftable grades. Add Williams and Jarvaris Davis, and it makes the back of the draft look even better.

JohnnyHammersticks · 05-24-2020, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow

I'll repeat that absolutely nobody had Gay anywhere near Wilson before the Combine. I said this the first and second time. Some boards he wasn't on, most he was in the 5th to 7th range. He shot up boards because of the combine. Combine warriors are dangerous and you know that.

Is he a legit top 20 talent? We'll find out won't we, because he wasn't available to be that in college and he made plenty of mistakes on the field when he was. He needs coaching, good coaching. He needs to finally commit to being available.

If you want to quote Jeremiah, here's what he said about Wilson when he was picked: "I think you're gonna look back five years from now and we're gonna talk about this being one of the best picks in this year's draft class," NFL Network's Daniel Jeremiah said during ESPN's draft broadcast. "This kid reminds me so much of (San Francisco 49ers linebacker) Fred Warner. ... He's just got phenomenal cover-ability - his ability to be an athlete, move in space, match up, range sideline to sideline. ... There's no hesitation to his game whatsoever. And when you're in a division with Lamar Jackson and company, you better be able to play sideline to sideline and make plays. That's what Logan Wilson does. I love this pick for the Cincinnati Bengals."

Do I trust Matt House? No, not especially. Not yet. He's never been anywhere to show a continuous trend of development of players at the position. I think he's always gone to situations where he inherited some talent. You look at his one year he got to spend in Carolina with Thomas Davis and Landon Johnson. He went to be a piece at the beginning of James Laurinaitis' career in St. Louis, the best LB perhaps to ever play at Ohio State. Then he bounced around in the college game with a year or two here and there. His 3 years in Kentucky, he had Josh Allen, which helps a ton. Did he develop Allen? Hard to say because he stepped in Allen's Sophomore year. He certainly put Allen in a position to succeed along with Mike Edwards. In any event, I'll give House credit when I see the development of LBs here in KC. He has a GOLDEN opportunity with Gay and O'Daniel to do that. I didn't see much change or improvement in Hitchens last year, so pardon me if I come off a bit jaded when it comes to House's abilities so far.

Overall, I'm as intrigued as I am worried about the pick. The potential with Gay is obviously higher but the floor is also incredibly lower. I'd have went the "safer" avenue, and that safer avenue is pretty highly touted.

JohnnyHammersticks · 05-24-2020, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Franchise

And then I’ll just ban your dumbass from the draft forum.

Do it. Put him out of his misery once and for all.

Halfcan · 05-25-2020, 01:57 PM

Willie Gay looks like what we needed for this defense. I think some on here get tunnel vision for certain players in the draft, and when the Chiefs pick someone different- they take it out on the drafted player.

We saw this with the Watson crowd. And now with CEH and Gay.

**RealSNR** · 05-25-2020, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halfcan

Willie Gay looks like what we needed for this defense. I think some on here get tunnel vision for certain players in the draft, and when the Chiefs pick someone different- they take it out on the drafted player.

We saw this with the Watson crowd. And now with CEH and Gay.

I'm fine with anybody who liked Watson or even wanted to draft him, but once we took Mahomes, if people said, "We drafted the wrong QB!" they're butt****ing morons.

Halfcan · 05-25-2020, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RealSNR

I'm fine with anybody who liked Watson or even wanted to draft him, but once we took Mahomes, if people said, "We drafted the wrong QB!" they're butt****ing morons.

We got a C- for the Mahomes draft, but I think it has worked out pretty well so far.

My optimism for this draft is rooted in seeing Andy, and Veech giddy over getting CEH.

They seemed pretty pumped to be able to plug Gay in the middle of this defense as well. Hard to believe that they are so far off the mark that these guys will be bust. It looks like they addressed two major weaknesses with this team.

We are better on paper than last year- looking forward to see if it is real.

kccrow · 05-26-2020, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Franchise

And then I’ll just ban your dumbass from the draft forum.

Oh, bow down before he who waves the mighty stick undeservedly.

04-26-2020, 04:42 PM
kccrow MVP Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Michigan Casino cash: $-1070000	Draft Grade Because I know it absolutely pisses people off here. Overall Grade B 1-32 Clyde Edwards-Helaire, RB, LSU - Grade A Surrounding Mahomes with weapons is never a bad idea and Clydro will provide him a safety net underneath against zone coverage and he's a solid short-yardage runner that can extend drives. Obviously, I'm not a believer in taking a RB in round 1 but I think returning 20 starters gives the team some form of luxury. I had a higher grade on DE AJ Epenesa who went far later than I expected, so we'll see how that plays out over the next few years. One thing for certain, KC got an immediate contributor at a position that needed added talent. 2-63 Willie Gay, Jr., LB, Mississippi State - Grade D+ If I were grading on effort, the Chiefs would get a solid B but I just don't like the player. Logan Wilson, taken 2 picks later, was widely regarded the better prospect and it wasn't even a debate. Gay, to me personnally, was a guy you take in the late 4th or 5th round as a developmental traits-based guy, but Veach saw the traits and took him much earlier. I think this is a severe reach but if he pans out then Veach will make me look silly. I'm not sure I'm taking that chance this early, especially given the academic fraud and fight with his QB. I think this is a position KC needed an immediate player at and they took a guy I expect to take 2 years to develop, if he ever does. This isn't a F-level bomb job in my opinion but I can't really fathom Gay being the better player over Wilson, who comps favorably to SF stud MLB Fred Warner. Hopefully, I have an A grade on this in 3 years and not the D+ I have today. I'd rather look stupid than smart on this one. 3-96 Lucas Niang, OT, TCU - Grade A Let me preface with saying Niang is a first-round caliber offensive tackle, no doubt about it. The fact he was a day 2 pick was because of his injury. The fact KC got him at 96 is almost mind-blowing. This is a player I thought KC would have to take at 63 if he even made it that far. This certainly offsets my feelings about the reach for Gay and the draft as a whole. If you told me post draft that it went 1 Niang, 2 Edwards-Helaire, and 3 Gay, I wouldn't have flinched, so that's a plus from a personal angle. 4-138 L'Jarius Sneed, CB/S, Louisiana Tech - Grade A I really, really like Sneed's tape as a CB. I'm not super high on him as a safety though so the confirmation that KC was looking to play him at CB made me feel really good about this pick. He has speed for days, he's a guy that plays the ball, and he's physical through the route. He doesn't have the hips or the feet you want right out the gate but I think he's really similar to Charvarious Ward and will improve there. The Chiefs had to address defensive backs in this draft and they had me nervous waiting this long. I thought they'd take one early on, especially with Trevon Diggs sitting there as another long and physical guy in round 1. 5-177 Michael Danna, DE, Michigan - Grade C- This wasn't a guy I was unfamiliar with. I live in Michigan plus I'm an Ohio State fan. I've seen the product at both Central and the U. I think there's some excitement as a physical specimen there but it's more power/explosion based. I think he's a tenancious player that's going to give you everything he can. I think if you leave him out on the edge and let him just do his thing, he's a better player than bumping him down inside at times. Certainly, he doesn't have much length and I don't know if he has enough athleticism to overcome what he lacks there. I think you always look at an initial grade on a player and then you look at what you would have taken instead, because that really backs it up. For me, there were three players sitting there I would have taken long before Danna in Wake Forest LB Justin Strnad to hedge my bets on Willie Gay and provide more on special teams, Michigan WR Donovan Peoples-Jones to plan for DRob and Sammy leaving after 2020, or Kansas OT Hakeem Adeniji who is a guy you plan to kick inside. With Niang on board, Adeniji has less appeal. Honestly, I think I would have opted for Peoples-Jones. I think that if you can unlock that potential he's going to be a really special player. He has the juice to be a Sammy Watkins. 7-237 Thakarius Keyes, CB, Tulane - Grade B+ Count me among those that were thrilled KC gave up a 2021 6th to jump back in and take this guy. He was on my list of late round favorites and I certainly think he has a future if he can prove that he can stay in phase with NFL receivers. I don't like his deep speed, I don't like his hips and feet right now, and I don't like that he opens up to routes too early, allowing receivers to get underneath him. That said, I like his length and his physicality and how he fits with Spags. I think he has some correctable aspects to his game. Pitt CB Dane Jackson went a couple picks later to Buffalo and I think he's just a tad better prospect, but I'm hopeful this kid turns out.
Posts: 14,012

05-20-2020, 08:33 PM	#32
DJ's left nut Sauntering Vaguely Downwards Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Columbia, Mo Casino cash: $-640901	I'd caution against tossing the 'combine warrior' tag on Gay for one reason only - in this case I think the combine did what it is supposed to do - send teams back to the tape. Very few guys really explode up real team's draft boards because of the combine anymore. Oh sure, media guys fall in love with them, but that means precisely dick. I know how much you read about this shit and you know as well as I do, the overwhelming majority of teams use the combine to give them a chance to re-consider a guy's tape. Even if they crush the combine, a team's just gonna go back to the tape because of that and if the guy can't play, the combine performance won't do anything other than turn them into a 3rd day flyer when they may have otherwise gone undrafted. It rarely moves you into day 2. Gay - admittedly for reasons of his own making - just didn't have that much tape. He had less of an opportunity to show out on film and that made him a little more prone to falling under some radars. Then when he went out there and torched the combine, teams went back and made a concerted effort to see what he put on tape. And yes, he showed those wasted steps, occasional over-aggressiveness and tendency towards being a little raw in his reads. But man, he also showed fantastic coverage tools. Not just on a stopwatch but on a football field. He showed a downhill, hitters mentality. When you made a point to watch him, sure you noticed some flaws, but you also noticed some MAJOR strengths. I don't think the Chiefs drafted him in the 2nd because of his combine. I think they drafted him because his combine got them to give his tape a 2nd (and 3rd, and probably 4th) look. I think time will tell us that the Chiefs used the combine exactly as it SHOULD be used in honing in on Gay. __________________ "If there's a god, he's laughing at us.....and our football team..." "When you look at something through rose colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags."
Posts: 66,722

05-23-2020, 10:36 AM	#35
Chris Meck MVP Join Date: May 2001 Location: midtown KC Casino cash: $-1155090	I think it's one thing to armchair GM if you have a shit team, or a demonstrably shit GM. It's another thing when you're kind of a middle of the pack-almost there type team, which we've been for years. And it's yet another thing when your young GM has built a Super Bowl winner, completely remaking the defensive side of the ball on the fly. I'll say there are some picks there that I don't understand, like Danna. I'm not sure what they're thinking there. They're thinking something, and I assume at some point I'll see it. But I wouldn't even try at this point to assume that I know more about it than Veach, Spags, or Daly. They have earned the right to show me without my second-guessing. My favorite picks of the draft: Clyde and Niang. I expect both to be studs. Biggest HR swing: Gay. If he refines his game, he'll be a force.
Posts: 19,379

05-24-2020, 07:02 AM	#39
TRR The Priest and I Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: CO Casino cash: $9480185	Loved the Edwards-Helaire pick. Having your pick of the RB litter while filling a large hole is tremendous value. Veach played it well as Swift, Taylor, Akers, Dobbins, and Dillon all went before KC’s pick in round 2. Gay was a bit of surprise in round 2 with such limited play in college. I’m not worried about the cheating scandal. More worried about punching his starting QB going into a Bowl game. That brings red flags for me. However, when on the field, you can see what Veach loves. He’s athletic, physical, nasty. He’ll play early. Niang looks like a steal in round 3. Could be the future at RT. Could play early at Guard. Provides great depth in the meantime. This is where the draft went a little sideways for me. I would have loved Bryce Hall in the 4th. Maybe there is more to his injury than we know. But the idea of he and Thornhill would have been fun. Instead, they take Sneed who was arguably the second best CB on a LA Tech team that moved him to safety. Not sold. Danna is a head-scratcher. Small school guy who didn’t get a ton of playing time after transferring to Michigan. Also doesn’t look the part of a Spags DE. Took a late flyer on Keyes...neither high or low on him. Really impressed with their UDFA haul. I think Lavert Hill could not only make the team, but play before Sneed or Keyes. They scored their new punter/holder in Townsend, and added a few WR’s that had draftable grades. Add Williams and Jarvaris Davis, and it makes the back of the draft look even better. Last edited by TRR; 05-24-2020 at 07:20 AM..
Posts: 7,348

05-25-2020, 01:57 PM	#42
Halfcan In Search of a Life Join Date: Aug 2005 Casino cash: $7327995	Willie Gay looks like what we needed for this defense. I think some on here get tunnel vision for certain players in the draft, and when the Chiefs pick someone different- they take it out on the drafted player. We saw this with the Watson crowd. And now with CEH and Gay.
Posts: 43,200