***Official 2015 STL Cardinals Thread II***

[BigRedChief]

2011 World Series Championship
2012 NLCS. One win from another WS appearance.
2013 World Series. Two wins from another World Series Championship
2014 NLCS. Three wins from another WS appearance
2015 Clinched Central Division title and Home Field advantage in the playoffs. First team in MLB to win 100 games since 2011.

• Made the postseason 11 times in the last 15 seasons.
• Only 1 losing season since 2000.
• Reached the World Series 4 times since 2004 and won as many championships (two) the past eight seasons as it did from 1965 to 2005.
• Made the NLCS 9 times including the last 4 years 2011-2014
• Three million attendance? Take it to the bank.
• 65 post season wins since 2004. 22+ wins more than any other team.

[O.city]

So we've moved further along in the season, what's the plan with heywards at this point?

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

So we've moved further along in the season, what's the plan with heywards at this point?

Pay him whatever you'd be willing to pay a gold glove RFer with an .800 OPS and 20 HR pop. Ultimately that's probably what you'll get in a good year.

He's just too loud at the dish and he always will be. He's not a comfortable offensive player. I've said it for awhile but he's just not cocky enough and I don't expect that's going to change. If you're cocky, you go up there expecting to get a hit. If you're Heyward, every time you get an out you see it as an indictment on your swing and you go back to the drawing board. He'll spend most of his career feeling for the ball and he'll have streaks of 4-6 weeks where he's in sync. Then he'll fall to shit again because you can't hope to maintain a consistent stroke when every part of your swing is quivering like a scared chihuahua.

I honestly have no idea what that number is. Truth be told, I think I'd rather have Jay Bruce. If we can go to the Reds and get Jay Bruce for Luke Weaver and Tim Cooney, I'd do it with the expectation that the comp pick I get for Heyward replaces Weaver and Cooney pays for the extra year of control I get for Bruce. Granted, the Reds probably wouldn't pull the trigger on that deal because of how far away Weaver is, but I'd probably consider subbing Kaminsky in there instead.

I don't know - I'm glad it's not my decision. Jason Heyward is probably going to get his next boss fired. If he re-signs here we'll have gone into it with eyes wide open so I don't expect anything will be held against Mo but if a new team signs him it will be because someone thinks they're getting a potential franchise cornerstone. He's not that. He's not going to be that. He's probably going to get paid like that though.

He reminds me a little of David Wright - he's a guy that can be a great GREAT #2 player on a championship team but he's simply not cut out to be the lynchpin. Like I said, he may just be too enigmatic to be worth the headache. If they extend him, I won't be upset. If they let him walk, I won't be upset about that either. This is one of those times where I'm damn glad it's not my decision to make.

[DJ's left nut]

And I'm going to try to do this without overselling him, but do you guys see what I was talking about 4 starts ago with Cooney now?

I said during that Padres start that he threw probably one curveball that I actually liked but that curve was enough to show me that he actually has one that's pretty decent. Tonight he actually demonstrated a major league curve. Not a good major league curve, but one that would absolutely play as a 3rd pitch. Moreover, his good curve was a good major league curve - the problem is that it's inconsistent and inconsistent is good; time and reps can fix inconsistent. I said his change could use just a little more drop and tonight he had it. He still kept hitters off balance by getting inside on them with his fastball.

Obviously it wasn't against a great offense, but you can just see his stuff sharpening up. This is the kid I saw in spring 2 years ago. This is the kid I was so impressed by in that May minor league start that I saw on MLB network last year where he damn near threw a no hitter against the Cubs high minors squad (with many of their top end prospects).

He's absolutely a major league caliber pitcher. He's not necessarily a guy that is going to win you champsionships, but he's a guy that can give save you $10 million a season by keeping you out of the market for back of the rotation starters, money that can then be spent on higher impact players. He's going to get his ass kicked some and there will be nights where he can't find his off-speed stuff and he doesn't have the filth to gut through an outing - he'll just get beat up. That's the nature of back of the rotation pitchers. But he's also not a throw-in. He's better than what many teams are running out there as a 4 and better than some 3s.

[Rams Fan]

On an unrelated note, Miklasz is leaving the Post-Dispatch to return to 101ESPN. Full time. That's a shame. Strauss is a POS. Bernie is a great columnist when he doesn't lead the witch hunt.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

And I'm going to try to do this without overselling him, but do you guys see what I was talking about 4 starts ago with Cooney now?

I said during that Padres start that he threw probably one curveball that I actually liked but that curve was enough to show me that he actually has one that's pretty decent. Tonight he actually demonstrated a major league curve. Not a good major league curve, but one that would absolutely play as a 3rd pitch. Moreover, his good curve was a good major league curve - the problem is that it's inconsistent and inconsistent is good; time and reps can fix inconsistent. I said his change could use just a little more drop and tonight he had it. He still kept hitters off balance by getting inside on them with his fastball.

Obviously it wasn't against a great offense, but you can just see his stuff sharpening up. This is the kid I saw in spring 2 years ago. This is the kid I was so impressed by in that May minor league start that I saw on MLB network last year where he damn near threw a no hitter against the Cubs high minors squad (with many of their top end prospects).

He's absolutely a major league caliber pitcher. He's not necessarily a guy that is going to win you champsionships, but he's a guy that can give save you $10 million a season by keeping you out of the market for back of the rotation starters, money that can then be spent on higher impact players. He's going to get his ass kicked some and there will be nights where he can't find his off-speed stuff and he doesn't have the filth to gut through an outing - he'll just get beat up. That's the nature of back of the rotation pitchers. But he's also not a throw-in. He's better than what many teams are running out there as a 4 and better than some 3s.

Well that makes me feel better about him. That curve was fantastic last night. If he can hit his spots regularly we may have something here.

Supposedly the Cardinals have a projected 25 man roster, pitching rotation and a starting line up 5 years out.

What do you think about this rotations. Baring trades and injury. I think we let Lynn go via FA and take the comp pick and spend the money on offense.

2016
Wacha
Martinez
Lynn
Waino
Gonzalez/Cooney

2017
Wacha
Martinez
Lynn
Waino
Gonzalez/Cooney/Reyes

2018
Wacha
Martinez
Reyes
Kaminsky
Gonzalez/Cooney

[George Liquor]

Cooney was optioned back to Memphis, does that mean Garcia is on his way back?

[Miles]

Originally Posted by BDj23

Cooney was optioned back to Memphis, does that mean Garcia is on his way back?

Yep. Garcia expected to start early next week.

Wouldn't mind seeing Cooney staying and going with a 6 man rotation at some point to help limit the innings on the other young guys.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by Miles

Yep. Garcia expected to start early next week.

Wouldn't mind seeing Cooney staying and going with a 6 man rotation at some point to help limit the innings on the other young guys.

Absolutely. I thought they should do it at the beginning of the year. Fifteen-twenty percent fewer innings on Martinez and Wacha would be huge.

[jd1020]

Hamels just no hit the Cubs. Let the bidding begin.

[Miles]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Absolutely. I thought they should do it at the beginning of the year. Fifteen-twenty percent fewer innings on Martinez and Wacha would be huge.

Cooney pitching well should make it an easier option but instead sent down. Lynn and Lackey are the only ones in the rotation that should get usual big innings totals.

[Miles]

Originally Posted by jd1020

Hamels just no hit the Cubs. Let the bidding begin.

He also got lit up recently and gets paid a ton. Would obviously be a great addition but not a huge fan of giving up the price they seem to be asking for one of the highest paid pitchers in the game.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by Miles

He also got lit up recently and gets paid a ton. Would obviously be a great addition but not a huge fan of giving up the price they seem to be asking for one of the highest paid pitchers in the game.

Hamels gets paid a ton? Do you even know what the price is for a SP of his caliber these days?

How much do you figure Price is going to get? Now take that price and compare it to Hamels. Now load up their numbers and look at them side by side and tell me Hamels gets paid a ton.

[Miles]

Originally Posted by jd1020

Hamels gets paid a ton? Do you even know what the price is for a SP of his caliber these days?

How much do you figure Price is going to get? Now take that price and compare it to Hamels. Now load up their numbers and look at them side by side and tell me Hamels gets paid a ton.

The is mostly relative to the amount Philly seems to be asking in return. There is around 100M left on his deal which is fine (would be the Cards highest paid) but giving up multiple to prospects to pay him that is a little less interesting. This is all assuming they want at least 2 of Gonzales, Reyes and Piscotti.

[Miles]

Also, while adding an ace to fill the loss of Wainwright would be very nice, adding a bat would seem more helpful. Something to fix the 1B void would be one of those.

['Hamas' Jenkins]