Football Brady v. NFL: No Settlement; Judge Berman to Decide - Page 39

Amnorix · 08-31-2015, 01:45 PM

Can't find the old thread. Brady and Goodell were back in NYC today for settlement talks. No progress.

Judge Berman said he would likely decide "in the next day or two" and definitely before September 4th.

Interesting how the narrative among the national writers has evolved.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/roger-g...180816187.html

NEW YORK – They arrived surrounded by lawyers, each wearing a blue suit and displeased expression. Here was Roger Goodell and here was Tom Brady back in federal court in a fight over power, ego and legacy, as much as whether the footballs were deflated in January's AFC championship game.

New York Giants owner John Mara came in an attempt to soften the face of the league's side a bit. Jay Feely, a long-time NFL kicker and friend of Brady's from back at the University of Michigan, arrived to stand by his side.

Once again, nothing worked. A private meeting in front of Judge Richard M. Berman yielded nothing. No one budged. No one backed down. No settlement was reached.
And now both sides roll the dice and sit and wait for a ruling.

"Tomorrow or the day after," Berman said of when he would likely announce whether to vacate Brady's four-game suspension. He assured it would come before Sept. 4, when both sides requested an answer so the New England Patriots can begin preparing for the season opener with or without their star quarterback.

So that's that, all or nothing, all or everything, all eyes on the court docket here.

For Brady it's either a quarter of the season lost or a measure of redemption gained. For Goodell it's either a reaffirmation of the totality of his authority or another humiliating public defeat.

There may be appeals and requests for stays and thus months still to go, what will be won, what may not be done. None of that minimized the tension and drama inside Berman's 17th-floor courtroom here on Monday, when a case that started as a curiosity on that playoff night boiled toward a milestone, if not a conclusion.

Berman clearly knows how he is going to rule and likely has much of the decision already written. He's read and heard it all over the past month. There were no new arguments on Monday. The chief attorneys, Daniel Nash of the NFL and Jeffrey Kessler of the NFL Players Association, both merely stood and praised the efforts of all sides even though, as sometimes happens, they just couldn't reach a settlement.

"This is a time Mr. Nash and I are going to agree," Kessler joked.

The inability to find common ground is not a surprise. Tom Brady was simply never going to admit he had any role in the tampering of those footballs, or even that the footballs were ever tampered with in the first place.

First off, after he said as much under oath and then introduced the transcript into federal court, doing so would risk a perjury charge. More importantly though, it would be a complete reversal, making him a liar and a cheat, crushing his image among not just fans but, most importantly according to those that know him best, his own children.

He also very well may be innocent. The NFL never produced much of a case against him, let alone that the footballs were even unnaturally deflated.

So the only way a settlement could go down was for Goodell to drop any demands for an admission of guilt. He'd have to settle for Brady merely acknowledging a failure to fully cooperate with the investigation. That, however, would be a serious concession from a commissioner who's built his career on cracking heads among misbehaving players.

So there was the irresistible force clashing with the unmovable object, each willing to lose in court as long as he could still save face.
It has been, if nothing else, a remarkable showdown of oversized personalities.

In court Monday, the two men, rich and famous and atop their chosen professions, refused to even look at each other.

When the session was adjourned, both were forced to awkwardly wait for the galley to clear out of media and observers, leaving them within a few feet of each other a couple table rows apart.

Brady stood first and wandered over to one wood-paneled wall of the ornate courtroom. He stuffed his hands in his pocket, looking as intense as any tight fourth-quarter drive. Feely stood by his side and the two eventually hugged.

Goodell, seated in front, stood slowly and also put his hands in his pocket, looking down and then turning in the opposite direction of Brady, trying to wear a face of nonchalance.

Eight months into this scandal, after swings of allegations and misrepresentations, of false media leaks and broadside-legal attacks, the distrust and disgust were clear: Two men known for their ability to smoothly glide through life, with fashion and fabulous hair, looked strangely uncomfortable.

No one ever wants to sit in this position, leaving it to another man, federal judge or not, to declare whether he or she is a cheat or a fraud or a bully or a bum.

Here these two are though, going down that awkward path together. Their lives are seemingly too charmed for this, yet they were like a couple of rivals on opposite sides of the schoolyard, unwilling to even acknowledge the other's presence in front of onlookers.

The stakes seem higher for Goodell, if only because his legal argument here is based on the 1981 Supreme Court decision MLBPA v. Garvey, which essentially prohibits judges from interfering with the decision of arbitrators even if they are horrendously flawed or based on inaccurate facts. Arguing you have the right to be a dictator isn't ideal in public relations terms.

As such, Goodell and the NFL could certainly prevail in front of Berman but do so via a ruling full of the same kind of harsh verbiage that the judge used during two prior public sessions.

It's clear that no matter which way Berman goes, he looked upon the NFL's judicial system in general, and the league's conduct in this case specifically, as lacking any semblance of fairness or competency. He could unload in the ruling and leave Goodell laid out, even if he's technically victorious.

That's the risk Goodell was willing to take. And one Brady is willing to go with, essentially entering the verdict stage with a two-pronged chance at redemption – either total or at least in the court of public opinion. A loss and a four-game suspension would hurt, but he could at least point to an impartial federal judge down in New York agreeing that Goodell is out of line.

It's certainly reasonable that the NFL initially erred when it failed to comprehend Ideal Gas Law and thus initially thought any Patriots football that measured below 12.5 pounds per square inch of inflation was a sign of nefarious conduct. It immediately went after a speeding ticket like a homicide case.

But by the time the league should've have dialed it back, it had already leaked prejudicial stories and begun building a case against Brady and two Patriots locker room attendants. The NFL never was able to find a smoking gun or much more than suspicions, but that didn't matter.

The NFL not only never backed down, it just kept doubling down, believing the full force of the league's power – both in the CBA and in its ability to manipulate national reporters – would overwhelm Brady.

The league may be correct and on the verge of a show-of-force victory. It may be wrong and headed for a comeuppance.

It's all up to Judge Berman now. Who knows what he thinks and who knows what he'll rule. On Monday he seemed eager to make it known though as he sent the two men in fancy blue suits off into the Manhattan morning, Goodell via a black Escalade, Brady in a Chevy Suburban. Each is left awaiting his word.

The QB v. the Commissioner, it's all or everything now.

GloryDayz · 09-04-2015, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

Originally Posted by GloryDayz

I think almost any QB can be successful in the "Patriot Way" system... It's like the average man who's allowed to bring a gun to a knife fight, you'd need a pretty big idiot to not be successful.

There's no mystery here..

Where can the Chiefs sign up to have that kind of success over that long of a period?

If Clark would commission a group to study and find ways to cheat/exploit the rules, we'd be there. Code name "BB"... But alas, the Chiefs will be the last to do it, unfortunately.

That being said, I'm sure teams like Denver will ramp-up their efforts to improve on things like Pam (body spray) and pick-plays in an effort to "keep up with the Krafts"!

GloryDayz · 09-04-2015, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

Can we just ban these threads already? Good God shut the **** up ... Go to a ****ing patriots board

Lick my unwiped diarrhea taint Hootie. If you're too big a pussy to be in in this thread unsubscribe from it.

TEX · 09-04-2015, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryDayz

If Clark would commission a group to study and find ways to cheat/exploit the rules, we'd be there. Code name "BB"... But alas, the Chiefs will be the last to do it, unfortunately.

That being said, I'm sure teams like Denver will ramp-up their efforts to improve on things like Pam (body spray) and pick-plays in an effort to "keep up with the Krafts"!

You mean "legal ointment" and "legal rubs." Oh - and "Legal blocks" when the chop blocks come back this season under Kubes.

Amnorix · 09-04-2015, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryDayz

I think almost any QB can be successful in the "Patriot Way" system... It's like the average man who's allowed to bring a gun to a knife fight, you'd need a pretty big idiot to not be successful.

There's no mystery here..

Let's accept for a second that the Patriots cheated. Let's use the gauge that the ref says he DIDN'T use pre-game (the one that "proved" the cheating).

That gauge establishes that the Patriots balls were 0.21 pounds under pressure compared to what the ideal gas law states it should be. Two-TENTHS of a pound of pressure.

Not TWO Pounds (as the NFL falsely rumored). Two-TENTHS of a pound.

You think ANYONE can detect that small of a difference? Going from 11.3 pounds to 11.1?

And that's why this whole thing ultimately makes NO sense at all.

GloryDayz · 09-04-2015, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Let's accept for a second that the Patriots cheated.

Welcome to the continent, the rest of us have been here since the needle plunged into the ball.

Have a great season, I'm sure RK, BB, TB, and the "creative committee" are hard at work to make sure it's awesome. And enjoy opening day and the 18 hours of "Tom this and Tom that" coverage.

Amnorix · 09-04-2015, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryDayz

Welcome to the continent, the rest of us have been here since the needle plunged into the ball.

Have a great season, I'm sure RK, BB, TB, and the "creative committee" are hard at work to make sure it's awesome. And enjoy opening day and the 18 hours of "Tom this and Tom that" coverage.

0.21 PSI. 0.21. PLS.

chiefzilla1501 · 09-04-2015, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Let's accept for a second that the Patriots cheated. Let's use the gauge that the ref says he DIDN'T use pre-game (the one that "proved" the cheating).

That gauge establishes that the Patriots balls were 0.21 pounds under pressure compared to what the ideal gas law states it should be. Two-TENTHS of a pound of pressure.

Not TWO Pounds (as the NFL falsely rumored). Two-TENTHS of a pound.

You think ANYONE can detect that small of a difference? Going from 11.3 pounds to 11.1?

And that's why this whole thing ultimately makes NO sense at all.

The story right now is that the equipment manager went completely rogue and decided to deflate the balls himself. The Pats basically threw these guys under the bus so even they know this was entirely possible.

So we are to assume that Tom Brady, a control freak and a guy who understands PSIs so well that he was 1 of 2 of the architects of the rule in the first place, had no idea that the balls seemed to have a little less air than usual. And Brady and Bellichick, two control freaks, didn't ream out the equipment manager when they realized the balls seemed more deflated than usual?

And it's not like the Pats even tried to ignore calling this guy the deflator. They could have said "deflator? I've never heard anyone call him that. He's lying." Instead, they gave some totally ridiculous explanation about how he needed to lose weight. Did we forget that already?

I get if you're outraged about the process. But the fact that people are actually buying what these liars are selling is beyond me. The ridiculous "deflator" explanation. Brady's ridiculous claim about cell phone destruction habits. Brady's complete denial that he even realized the bal he was throwing was off. Geez.

GloryDayz · 09-04-2015, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

0.21 PSI. 0.21. PLS.

Maybe you've not come all the way ashore, you're still spewing the propaganda they circulated as talking points.

By the way, invite to two "evidently innocent" ball boys to the island, they might enjoy a place where they can explain why, exactly, they got fired. We have room for them too...

Have a great season. Play within the rules please, you'll still enjoy a 1:32 chance of winning it all...

jonzie04 · 09-04-2015, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryDayz

Welcome to the continent, the rest of us have been here since the needle plunged into the ball.

Have a great season, I'm sure RK, BB, TB, and the "creative committee" are hard at work to make sure it's awesome. And enjoy opening day and the 18 hours of "Tom this and Tom that" coverage.

GloryDayz · 09-04-2015, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

The story right now is that the equipment manager went completely rogue and decided to deflate the balls himself. The Pats basically threw these guys under the bus so even they know this was entirely possible.

So we are to assume that Tom Brady, a control freak and a guy who understands PSIs so well that he was 1 of 2 of the architects of the rule in the first place, had no idea that the balls seemed to have a little less air than usual. And Brady and Bellichick, two control freaks, didn't ream out the equipment manager when they realized the balls seemed more deflated than usual?

And it's not like the Pats even tried to ignore calling this guy the deflator. They could have said "deflator? I've never heard anyone call him that. He's lying." Instead, they gave some totally ridiculous explanation about how he needed to lose weight. Did we forget that already?

I get if you're outraged about the process. But the fact that people are actually buying what these liars are selling is beyond me. The ridiculous "deflator" explanation. Brady's ridiculous claim about cell phone destruction habits. Brady's complete denial that he even realized the bal he was throwing was off. Geez.

It'll be nice to track how the deflators live in the coming years. Perhaps they'll win the lottery (a $5M one that's only open to former/fired employees). It's possible, especially in Whoresville. If not, perhaps seeing if the people around them come across a lot of luck, well that might be interesting too. But I'm not suggesting anything (and I just broke my phone, so don't ask!!)...

As for Tom, c'mon man, he's new to the game! Not only is he new, he hardly ever handled a football given that he was a QB... How could he possibly have a sense of what a football would feel like? You need to ask people live DBs about that, they know...

Oh, and have a great season... I'm sure there will be many things under the Xmas tree as y'all make your run for 8...

Amnorix · 09-04-2015, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryDayz

Maybe you've not come all the way ashore, you're still spewing the propaganda they circulated as talking points.

By the way, invite to two "evidently innocent" ball boys to the island, they might enjoy a place where they can explain why, exactly, they got fired. We have room for them too...

Have a great season. Play within the rules please, you'll still enjoy a 1:32 chance of winning it all...

Basic facts-- you're getting many of them wrong.

Employees weren't fired.

chiefzilla1501 · 09-04-2015, 02:38 PM

What Patriots fans believe:

The guy was nicknamed "the deflator" because he was fat (Pats didn't deny knowledge of the nickname. They actually gave an explanation)
Brady accidentally destroyed his phone coincidentally at the wrong time
Brady never knew that the footballs he was throwing were deflated

I'm not even embellishing. These are things you have to actually believe to deny the Pats/Brady had any knowledge this was going on. That doesn't even get into the fact that a controlling organization like New England never once caught on that there was a guy sneaking footballs into the bathroom. Scott Pioli flips out over gum wrappers (Patriot Way), but doctoring footballs....

Amnorix · 09-04-2015, 02:38 PM

Amusing that you don't even realize that NFL propaganda war that was raged here. You say I'm spouting the Patriots talking points, but you're spewing the NFL's, many fo which turned out to be inaccurate when the light shone on the process.

Whatever, let the hate flow. It's all good. And trust me when I say I will definitely enjoy the NFL season, as I have enjoyed the many years of great football that I have been privileged to watch since Belichick's arrival.

GloryDayz · 09-04-2015, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Basic facts-- you're getting many of them wrong.

Employees weren't fired.

OK, you might need to get back on the boat, you might not be as ready for the island as I thought...

But have a great season. By this time next year y'all will be sporting, prolly, another tarnished tin cup, but it'll be special to y'all. And Tom will bet another sweater. All's right in Kraft's world.

Amnorix · 09-04-2015, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

What Patriots fans believe:

The guy was nicknamed "the deflator" because he was fat (Pats didn't deny knowledge of the nickname. They actually gave an explanation)
Brady accidentally destroyed his phone coincidentally at the wrong time
Brady never knew that the footballs he was throwing were deflated

I'm not even embellishing. These are things you have to actually believe to deny the Pats/Brady had any knowledge this was going on. That doesn't even get into the fact that a controlling organization like New England never once caught on that there was a guy sneaking footballs into the bathroom. Scott Pioli flips out over gum wrappers (Patriot Way), but doctoring footballs....

You think any human can discern the difference between 11.3 PSI and 11.1 PSI?

And that's if you believe the ref was WRONG about which gauge he used. If his memory was right, then the PSI was within the ideal gas law.

But forget that, more fun to call them cheaters and hang meaningless asterisks. Have fun, it's all good.

<---- Avatar bitches.

08-31-2015, 01:45 PM
Amnorix In BB I trust Join Date: May 2003 Location: Boston, Mass. Casino cash: $10029808	Brady v. NFL: No Settlement; Judge Berman to Decide Can't find the old thread. Brady and Goodell were back in NYC today for settlement talks. No progress. Judge Berman said he would likely decide "in the next day or two" and definitely before September 4th. Interesting how the narrative among the national writers has evolved. http://sports.yahoo.com/news/roger-g...180816187.html NEW YORK – They arrived surrounded by lawyers, each wearing a blue suit and displeased expression. Here was Roger Goodell and here was Tom Brady back in federal court in a fight over power, ego and legacy, as much as whether the footballs were deflated in January's AFC championship game. New York Giants owner John Mara came in an attempt to soften the face of the league's side a bit. Jay Feely, a long-time NFL kicker and friend of Brady's from back at the University of Michigan, arrived to stand by his side. Once again, nothing worked. A private meeting in front of Judge Richard M. Berman yielded nothing. No one budged. No one backed down. No settlement was reached. And now both sides roll the dice and sit and wait for a ruling. "Tomorrow or the day after," Berman said of when he would likely announce whether to vacate Brady's four-game suspension. He assured it would come before Sept. 4, when both sides requested an answer so the New England Patriots can begin preparing for the season opener with or without their star quarterback. So that's that, all or nothing, all or everything, all eyes on the court docket here. For Brady it's either a quarter of the season lost or a measure of redemption gained. For Goodell it's either a reaffirmation of the totality of his authority or another humiliating public defeat. There may be appeals and requests for stays and thus months still to go, what will be won, what may not be done. None of that minimized the tension and drama inside Berman's 17th-floor courtroom here on Monday, when a case that started as a curiosity on that playoff night boiled toward a milestone, if not a conclusion. Berman clearly knows how he is going to rule and likely has much of the decision already written. He's read and heard it all over the past month. There were no new arguments on Monday. The chief attorneys, Daniel Nash of the NFL and Jeffrey Kessler of the NFL Players Association, both merely stood and praised the efforts of all sides even though, as sometimes happens, they just couldn't reach a settlement. "This is a time Mr. Nash and I are going to agree," Kessler joked. The inability to find common ground is not a surprise. Tom Brady was simply never going to admit he had any role in the tampering of those footballs, or even that the footballs were ever tampered with in the first place. First off, after he said as much under oath and then introduced the transcript into federal court, doing so would risk a perjury charge. More importantly though, it would be a complete reversal, making him a liar and a cheat, crushing his image among not just fans but, most importantly according to those that know him best, his own children. He also very well may be innocent. The NFL never produced much of a case against him, let alone that the footballs were even unnaturally deflated. So the only way a settlement could go down was for Goodell to drop any demands for an admission of guilt. He'd have to settle for Brady merely acknowledging a failure to fully cooperate with the investigation. That, however, would be a serious concession from a commissioner who's built his career on cracking heads among misbehaving players. So there was the irresistible force clashing with the unmovable object, each willing to lose in court as long as he could still save face. It has been, if nothing else, a remarkable showdown of oversized personalities. In court Monday, the two men, rich and famous and atop their chosen professions, refused to even look at each other. When the session was adjourned, both were forced to awkwardly wait for the galley to clear out of media and observers, leaving them within a few feet of each other a couple table rows apart. Brady stood first and wandered over to one wood-paneled wall of the ornate courtroom. He stuffed his hands in his pocket, looking as intense as any tight fourth-quarter drive. Feely stood by his side and the two eventually hugged. Goodell, seated in front, stood slowly and also put his hands in his pocket, looking down and then turning in the opposite direction of Brady, trying to wear a face of nonchalance. Eight months into this scandal, after swings of allegations and misrepresentations, of false media leaks and broadside-legal attacks, the distrust and disgust were clear: Two men known for their ability to smoothly glide through life, with fashion and fabulous hair, looked strangely uncomfortable. No one ever wants to sit in this position, leaving it to another man, federal judge or not, to declare whether he or she is a cheat or a fraud or a bully or a bum. Here these two are though, going down that awkward path together. Their lives are seemingly too charmed for this, yet they were like a couple of rivals on opposite sides of the schoolyard, unwilling to even acknowledge the other's presence in front of onlookers. The stakes seem higher for Goodell, if only because his legal argument here is based on the 1981 Supreme Court decision MLBPA v. Garvey, which essentially prohibits judges from interfering with the decision of arbitrators even if they are horrendously flawed or based on inaccurate facts. Arguing you have the right to be a dictator isn't ideal in public relations terms. As such, Goodell and the NFL could certainly prevail in front of Berman but do so via a ruling full of the same kind of harsh verbiage that the judge used during two prior public sessions. It's clear that no matter which way Berman goes, he looked upon the NFL's judicial system in general, and the league's conduct in this case specifically, as lacking any semblance of fairness or competency. He could unload in the ruling and leave Goodell laid out, even if he's technically victorious. That's the risk Goodell was willing to take. And one Brady is willing to go with, essentially entering the verdict stage with a two-pronged chance at redemption – either total or at least in the court of public opinion. A loss and a four-game suspension would hurt, but he could at least point to an impartial federal judge down in New York agreeing that Goodell is out of line. It's certainly reasonable that the NFL initially erred when it failed to comprehend Ideal Gas Law and thus initially thought any Patriots football that measured below 12.5 pounds per square inch of inflation was a sign of nefarious conduct. It immediately went after a speeding ticket like a homicide case. But by the time the league should've have dialed it back, it had already leaked prejudicial stories and begun building a case against Brady and two Patriots locker room attendants. The NFL never was able to find a smoking gun or much more than suspicions, but that didn't matter. The NFL not only never backed down, it just kept doubling down, believing the full force of the league's power – both in the CBA and in its ability to manipulate national reporters – would overwhelm Brady. The league may be correct and on the verge of a show-of-force victory. It may be wrong and headed for a comeuppance. It's all up to Judge Berman now. Who knows what he thinks and who knows what he'll rule. On Monday he seemed eager to make it known though as he sent the two men in fancy blue suits off into the Manhattan morning, Goodell via a black Escalade, Brady in a Chevy Suburban. Each is left awaiting his word. The QB v. the Commissioner, it's all or everything now.
Posts: 43,125

09-04-2015, 02:38 PM	#582
chiefzilla1501 In Search of a Life Join Date: Aug 2008 Casino cash: $-1635503	What Patriots fans believe: The guy was nicknamed "the deflator" because he was fat (Pats didn't deny knowledge of the nickname. They actually gave an explanation) Brady accidentally destroyed his phone coincidentally at the wrong time Brady never knew that the footballs he was throwing were deflated I'm not even embellishing. These are things you have to actually believe to deny the Pats/Brady had any knowledge this was going on. That doesn't even get into the fact that a controlling organization like New England never once caught on that there was a guy sneaking footballs into the bathroom. Scott Pioli flips out over gum wrappers (Patriot Way), but doctoring footballs....
Posts: 51,599

09-04-2015, 02:38 PM	#583
Amnorix In BB I trust Join Date: May 2003 Location: Boston, Mass. Casino cash: $10029808	Amusing that you don't even realize that NFL propaganda war that was raged here. You say I'm spouting the Patriots talking points, but you're spewing the NFL's, many fo which turned out to be inaccurate when the light shone on the process. Whatever, let the hate flow. It's all good. And trust me when I say I will definitely enjoy the NFL season, as I have enjoyed the many years of great football that I have been privileged to watch since Belichick's arrival. __________________ "I love signature blocks on the Internet. I get to put whatever the hell I want in quotes, pick a pretend author, and bang, it's like he really said it." George Washington
Posts: 43,125