The age-old saying that "the customer is always right" may soon be put out to pasture - Page 4

|Zach| · 01-20-2007, 04:01 PM

I like this move...some of the actions of people at retail stores is disgusting.

http://www.sixwise.com/newsletters/0..._consumers.htm

The age-old saying that "the customer is always right" may soon be put out to pasture. Why? Increasing numbers of stores are cracking down on what they call "devil" shoppers -- customers whose buying and returning practices, some legit, may actually cause the store to lose money -- and the stores believe they're better off without them.

Best Buy stores have gotten so fed up with their "devil" shoppers -- a group they say makes up 20 percent of their customer base -- that they're actively trying to eliminate them from their stores. These shoppers (see below for a description of some of their tactics) account for as many as one-fifth of Best Buy's 500 million customer visits each year, and according to Best Buy CEO Brad Anderson, "They can wreak enormous economic havoc."

So now Best Buy is fighting back. They've started training their employees to identify "angel" shoppers -- the ones who buy highly priced items like HDTVs or just-released DVDs without waiting for a markdown -- and cater to them while "blacklisting" the devil shoppers. The staff uses a quick interview of sorts to identify the different types, which they internally call:

* Barrys: High-income men who like action movies and cameras
*Jills: Suburban moms who want to help their families
*Buzzes: Male technology fans who want the latest high-tech gadgets

Other practices Best Buy has put into play include adding a 15 percent restocking fee and selling restocked items over the Internet as opposed to in stores.

But Best Buy is not alone. Some stores will go so far as to remove "bad" customers from their promotions mailing list or put them on long holds if they call stores with too many questions and no intent to buy. And stores like Express, KB Toys, the Sports Authority, Staples and Guess have all adopted a new technology called the Return Exchange to monitor customers' buying habits.

When a purchase is made, the device records the consumer's name, address, age and transaction details and sends it to The Return Exchange's database. The company says the device is meant to stop shoplifters and other fraud-doers, but it doesn't stop there. Each store inputs certain criteria, such as a high number of returns or a dollar amount on returns, after which a customer's return can be denied.

Said retail consultant King Rogers, retail stores lose some $16 billion a year because of fraud. "Consumers are going to find more stores with tighter, more restrictive return policies than they found last year. When you look at the economics of it, $16 billion a year in losses, they have to tighten up," he said.

But others are worried that consumers will get the short end of the deal.

"I'm concerned about the 99 percent of consumers who are not abusing the system," said Edgar Dworsky, founder of ConsumerWorld.org, an Internet public service site. "It's the wrong size, the wrong color, the mother bought clothing for kids who didn't want it."

Already the Federal Trade Commission has been asked to investigate the legality of stores monitoring and denying customers' returns, and Sen. Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) proposed legislation to require stores that do limit returns to warn shoppers of the practice.

-Shopper Tactics That Might Send You to the "Blacklist"

The following practices are among the most common and most offensive in the eyes of retailers. If you commonly engage in any of these practices, you may soon find that your next return is denied or your name has been added to a store's "blacklist" of bad customers.

*Buying a product, taking advantage of the product rebate, then returning the product for a refund.
*Buying clothing or another item, wearing it (or using it) once, then returning it (the classic example is the evening gown that's worn with tags on for a night, then returned).
*Buying an item and returning it with the intent of buying it at the reduced "open-box" price
*Buying clothing or another item with the intent of returning it later and re-buying it at a markdown price.
*Buying a product at a discount, such as from the store's selection of "loss leaders," (low-priced products stores lose money on that are designed to attract customers) then reselling it on eBay for a premium price.
*Finding rock-bottom prices on Web sites, then challenging stores to pay up on their lowest price guarantees.
*Taking up an employee's time to ask questions about a significant purchase with the intent to buy it elsewhere.

Most consumers do have good intentions at heart and make returns for legitimate reasons. Retailers are aware of this and wary of portraying a too-tough image to customers. Said Anderson, it's a fine balance to ward of bad customers without turning away the good ones.

"The most dangerous image I can think of is a retailer that wants to fire customers," he says.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 01-20-2007, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by memyselfI

The CS I spoke to on the phone agreed that the manager was completely wrong and told me where to send an email to complain. Within a day they wrote back apologizing and offering to credit my account.

Which directly undermines the first half of your argument, that they won't. If properly interpreted, they do...

'Hamas' Jenkins · 01-20-2007, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

they said that the City just went down a local awards list of the fastest-growing firms and audited them. Way to discourage economic growth, Denver.

I can't say I really blame the city for auditing uber-fast growing companies. Shouldn't we have learned *something* from the Enron scandal?

memyselfI · 01-20-2007, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hummus' Jenkins

Which directly undermines the first half of your argument, that they won't. If properly interpreted, they do...

Actually, my argument was that policies should not be set in stone. I worked retail for over ten years and a few of those in management. When it goes to the corporate level the store manager is usually overriden. What makes the store manager look bad is that he got corporate involved over FIFTEEN DOLLARS. What and idiot. That doesn't make him look effective. It makes him look like a moron. The time it took for two different CSRs to address my concerns cost more than $15.00.

**Lzen** · 01-20-2007, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

If "devil shoppers" are 20 percent of their business, then they need to redefine "devil shoppers". I'm not sure it's feasible to drive off 20 percent of your customers, even if they're the high-maintenance ones.

Heh, good luck driving off that 20% without driving off a significant percentage of the legitimate customers. BB and some of the other retailers they mention are playing with fire, IMO. The first few on that list, I don't do any of the first few items on that list. The last couple are questionable practices, though.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 01-20-2007, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by memyselfI

Actually, my argument was that policies should not be set in stone. I worked retail for over ten years and a few of those in management. When it goes to the corporate level the store manager is usually overriden. What makes the store manager look bad is that he got corporate involved over FIFTEEN DOLLARS. What an idiot. That doesn't make him look effective. It makes him look like a moron. The time it took for two different CSRs to address my concerns cost more than $15.00.

And had he realized that it was defective, he could have exchanged or refunded your money. You are conflating his mistake as empirical evidence of CC's universal policy, and as was later told to you, the manager's interpretation was WRONG.

FringeNC · 01-20-2007, 05:59 PM

"The customer is always right" means higher prices for the rest of the customers.

Regarding Best Buy, here's my take. Comparison shop at Best Buy, buy somewhere else. Best Buy employees aren't on commission, so they don't care. Many other electronic store employees are, and they are on you from the minute you walk in the door, which is irritating if you're not ready to buy, but nice if you are.

**Lzen** · 01-20-2007, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by memyselfI

But even policies should not be set in stone. For instance, Circuit City has a 15% restocking fee on their returns. We purchased a digital camera for Christmas. It was a Polaroid and it was crap. The camera took terrible pictures because something was wrong with the flash. On return, the store did not have the item anymore and wanted to refund me the money at 100% only if I got a CC gift card or purchased something else.

Well the camera was blister packaged and the ONLY way to know it was defective or crap was to OPEN the package. The manager was a complete and total asshole. I explained to him that him keeping my $15.00 was going to cause me to stop shopping there and that he shouldn't treat me that way because over the past year we had spent over $1500 dollars at CC including a computer purchased just weeks before.

He didn't care. I explained to him that I was in the market to purchase a different digital camera, one at least three times as expensive, and that it wouldn't be from CC because of his attitude. He didn't give a shit so I left.

I wrote a letter explaining the situation to their corporate HQs. They refunded me the money. I didn't purchase the camera from them but from Amazon.com for over $130 cheaper than what they were selling it. I don't know if I'll buy from CC ever again because their management was so unprofessional even though their corporate office did correct the problem.

Any company that would fight over $15 with a customer that has spent $1500 in the past year is a company that has a very bad business sense and ultimately is not one I want to do business with.

Sounds like that particular CC needs a better manager. Aren't there like 4 CCs in KC, though? Just go to a different location.

**Rain Man** · 01-20-2007, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hummus' Jenkins

I can't say I really blame the city for auditing uber-fast growing companies. Shouldn't we have learned *something* from the Enron scandal?

I learned that big existing companies don't have to pay the snack tax, but small growing companies do.

FringeNC · 01-20-2007, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by memyselfI

I'm a compulsive review shopper. That doesn't keep one from getting the occasional lemon.

Sheesh, the rockin Pany camera I just bought didn't have the 16mb SD card it's supposed to have. I could send it back as 'defective' but I'm not going to bother. Not for a small problem like that for a card I wouldn't use anyway. I've sent Amazon an email and I suspect they'll issue a credit of some sort.

16mb SD Card? They still make those? You can get a gig for 20 dollars.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 01-20-2007, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

I learned that big existing companies don't have to pay the snack tax, but small growing companies do.

I'm sure flagellation of a concubine would quell your frustration

**Rain Man** · 01-20-2007, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hummus' Jenkins

I'm sure flagellation of a concubine would quell your frustration

Yeah, but I did that last night. Tonight I'm going to hire some illegal aliens to perform the final episode of M*A*S*H.

01-20-2007, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by memyselfI

Actually, my argument was that policies should not be set in stone. I worked retail for over ten years and a few of those in management. When it goes to the corporate level the store manager is usually overriden. What makes the store manager look bad is that he got corporate involved over FIFTEEN DOLLARS. What and idiot. That doesn't make him look effective. It makes him look like a moron. The time it took for two different CSRs to address my concerns cost more than $15.00.

Who looks like a bigger idiot - the store manager who dismissed you with a swipe of the hand or the customer who spent 19.6 hours recovering the $15?

'Hamas' Jenkins · 01-20-2007, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

Yeah, but I did that last night. Tonight I'm going to hire some illegal aliens to perform the final episode of M*A*S*H.

If only Denver had more Koreans.

01-20-2007, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hummus' Jenkins

If only Denver had more Koreans.

They would have fewer dogs, which according to Big_Daddy is part of their master plan anyway.

stevieray · 01-20-2007, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

Yeah, but I did that last night. Tonight I'm going to hire some illegal aliens to perform the final episode of M*A*S*H.

I always knew it stood for benito jiminez.

01-20-2007, 04:01 PM
\|Zach\| For The Glory Of The City Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Kansas City Casino cash: $3176768	The age-old saying that "the customer is always right" may soon be put out to pasture I like this move...some of the actions of people at retail stores is disgusting. http://www.sixwise.com/newsletters/0..._consumers.htm The age-old saying that "the customer is always right" may soon be put out to pasture. Why? Increasing numbers of stores are cracking down on what they call "devil" shoppers -- customers whose buying and returning practices, some legit, may actually cause the store to lose money -- and the stores believe they're better off without them. Best Buy stores have gotten so fed up with their "devil" shoppers -- a group they say makes up 20 percent of their customer base -- that they're actively trying to eliminate them from their stores. These shoppers (see below for a description of some of their tactics) account for as many as one-fifth of Best Buy's 500 million customer visits each year, and according to Best Buy CEO Brad Anderson, "They can wreak enormous economic havoc." So now Best Buy is fighting back. They've started training their employees to identify "angel" shoppers -- the ones who buy highly priced items like HDTVs or just-released DVDs without waiting for a markdown -- and cater to them while "blacklisting" the devil shoppers. The staff uses a quick interview of sorts to identify the different types, which they internally call: * Barrys: High-income men who like action movies and cameras Jills: Suburban moms who want to help their families Buzzes: Male technology fans who want the latest high-tech gadgets Other practices Best Buy has put into play include adding a 15 percent restocking fee and selling restocked items over the Internet as opposed to in stores. But Best Buy is not alone. Some stores will go so far as to remove "bad" customers from their promotions mailing list or put them on long holds if they call stores with too many questions and no intent to buy. And stores like Express, KB Toys, the Sports Authority, Staples and Guess have all adopted a new technology called the Return Exchange to monitor customers' buying habits. When a purchase is made, the device records the consumer's name, address, age and transaction details and sends it to The Return Exchange's database. The company says the device is meant to stop shoplifters and other fraud-doers, but it doesn't stop there. Each store inputs certain criteria, such as a high number of returns or a dollar amount on returns, after which a customer's return can be denied. Said retail consultant King Rogers, retail stores lose some $16 billion a year because of fraud. "Consumers are going to find more stores with tighter, more restrictive return policies than they found last year. When you look at the economics of it, $16 billion a year in losses, they have to tighten up," he said. But others are worried that consumers will get the short end of the deal. "I'm concerned about the 99 percent of consumers who are not abusing the system," said Edgar Dworsky, founder of ConsumerWorld.org, an Internet public service site. "It's the wrong size, the wrong color, the mother bought clothing for kids who didn't want it." Already the Federal Trade Commission has been asked to investigate the legality of stores monitoring and denying customers' returns, and Sen. Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) proposed legislation to require stores that do limit returns to warn shoppers of the practice. -Shopper Tactics That Might Send You to the "Blacklist" The following practices are among the most common and most offensive in the eyes of retailers. If you commonly engage in any of these practices, you may soon find that your next return is denied or your name has been added to a store's "blacklist" of bad customers. Buying a product, taking advantage of the product rebate, then returning the product for a refund. Buying clothing or another item, wearing it (or using it) once, then returning it (the classic example is the evening gown that's worn with tags on for a night, then returned). Buying an item and returning it with the intent of buying it at the reduced "open-box" price Buying clothing or another item with the intent of returning it later and re-buying it at a markdown price. Buying a product at a discount, such as from the store's selection of "loss leaders," (low-priced products stores lose money on that are designed to attract customers) then reselling it on eBay for a premium price. Finding rock-bottom prices on Web sites, then challenging stores to pay up on their lowest price guarantees. *Taking up an employee's time to ask questions about a significant purchase with the intent to buy it elsewhere. Most consumers do have good intentions at heart and make returns for legitimate reasons. Retailers are aware of this and wary of portraying a too-tough image to customers. Said Anderson, it's a fine balance to ward of bad customers without turning away the good ones. "The most dangerous image I can think of is a retailer that wants to fire customers," he says.
Posts: 54,688

01-20-2007, 05:59 PM	#51
FringeNC MVP Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: NC Casino cash: $-1603986	"The customer is always right" means higher prices for the rest of the customers. Regarding Best Buy, here's my take. Comparison shop at Best Buy, buy somewhere else. Best Buy employees aren't on commission, so they don't care. Many other electronic store employees are, and they are on you from the minute you walk in the door, which is irritating if you're not ready to buy, but nice if you are.
Posts: 10,234