Justifying Day Care - Page 4

C-Mac · 03-26-2007, 06:50 PM

http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune....justify_d.html
Justifying day care
"As if I don’t already feel guilty for putting my son in day care at the tender age of three months, a new study shows that the more time children spend in center-based care before kindergarten, the more likely they’ll fight, disobey and argue, according to their 6th grade teachers.

The increase in problem behavior was slight, but studies like this inspire me to look for the silver lining. And I always return to the same thing: "the hygiene hypothesis," or the belief that early exposure to germs helps the immune system develop properly.

While most children get six to eight infections a year, children in day care bring home twice that number, or about one a month. Day-care settings --or petri dishes, as my pediatrician calls them-- have high levels of indoor allergens and have been shown to incubate and spread antibiotic resistant bacteria.

This sounds like a no-brainer: Keep your children at home! But since most of us don't have that option--63 percent of U.S. children under the age of five spend 37 hours a week in child care--I manage to get through the work day by reminding myself my kids might turn out healthier in the long run.

Some research bears this out. A 2005 study in the British Medical Journal showed that children who attended day care in the first few months of life are less likely to develop leukemia than children who do not, most likely because they were protected from exposure to common infections. Similar associations have been reported for Type 1diabetes and allergies and asthma in children.

Still, even if they have stronger immune systems, is it worth sending them to day care if they’re going to have behavioral issues that persist at least until 6th grade? That, according to the research, published in the March/April issue of "Child Development," is up to the parents.

The researchers involved with the longest and most comprehensive study of child care in the U.S. cautioned that parenting quality was a much more important predictor of child development than the type, quantity or quality of child care.

Ultimately, while quality day care is important, a quality home environment matters more."

We had to do without some things obviuosly but the wife and I both agreed that her being at home while the children were young, was far more important than her having a career or us having a new car or house. We now get compliments all the time about our kids and their behavior and I truly feel that this is one of the main reasons why. I do understand that not everyone's situation allows mom to stay home(especially single moms), but I do think that there are many cases that if they just tried to live a little simpler, they could pull it off.

KC Kings · 03-27-2007, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saulbadguy

It's nowhere near 90%. If I had a child right now, it would be around %35 of my wifes income to send the child to daycare. That is a much nicer figure than 100%, IMO.

That is if your wife has a good paying skillset and expereince in that skill set. We got married when my wife was 22 and she didn't go to college. My coworker sitting right next to me said he pays $1200 a month for child care for 2 kids. For my wife with no skills, ( at least none that I want her using on other people

), no degree, and no experience, she isn't going to get a great job. Just to cover the $1200 in daycare ($300 a week), is $7.50 an hour. Add in taxes, work clothes, work shoes, extra gas money, etc... and a good portion of what she would be making would be nullified.

That being said, it would be easy for somebody to reply that she stays at home because we have no other choice, which would be completely incorrect. We had another choice in 2000, and we are in this situation because we made the decision to have my wife quit her $15 an hour job when she got pregnant.

JBucc · 03-27-2007, 08:00 AM

So on average, how much does a Daycare cost a week these days? I mean, in the Midwest not in Cali or something where everything's a bazillion dollars.

KC Kings · 03-27-2007, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eazyb81

So in your world, it's either:

Also, i'm sure your wife will have a scintillating career once the kids grow up. Her 5+ years of cleaning diapers would surely trump the professional experience her peers will have on their resume.

Your exactly right. It is called priorities. Some make the highest priority doing what is best for the kids, and others put personal goals and making more money to buy more stuff on on what is more important.

**Saulbadguy** · 03-27-2007, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC Kings

That is if your wife has a good paying skillset and expereince in that skill set. We got married when my wife was 22 and she didn't go to college. My coworker sitting right next to me said he pays $1200 a month for child care for 2 kids. For my wife with no skills, ( at least none that I want her using on other people

), no degree, and no experience, she isn't going to get a great job. Just to cover the $1200 in daycare ($300 a week), is $7.50 an hour. Add in taxes, work clothes, work shoes, extra gas money, etc... and a good portion of what she would be making would be nullified.

That being said, it would be easy for somebody to reply that she stays at home because we have no other choice, which would be completely incorrect. We had another choice in 2000, and we are in this situation because we made the decision to have my wife quit her $15 an hour job when she got pregnant.

That is why you wait to have children.

**Saulbadguy** · 03-27-2007, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBucc

So on average, how much does a Daycare cost a week these days? I mean, in the Midwest not in Cali or something where everything's a bazillion dollars.

It scales on the age of the child. When I worked at the daycare Infants were $120 a week.

**Saulbadguy** · 03-27-2007, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hydrae

Sorry, I know that 90% number seems to have bothered a lot of people from the reaction. I come from a more blue collar type background and have seen mothers working fast food jobs while the kids are in day care. At that point, yes 90% of their income is needed to pay for the child care. Like I said, that makes no sense to me.

That would make no sense to me either. If my wife were working fast food and had a child, she would stay home. Since she does not work fast food, it would make little sense for her to stay home.

vailpass · 03-27-2007, 08:14 AM

I can't imagine someone other than my wife or me being there to see our kids' first step, laugh, new word or any of the thousand and one other things that make being a parent worth while.
I've seen a lot of professional associates, mostly women, try to act like they don't wish they were at home with their kids instead of working all day. Not one of them convinced me they really felt that way.
How sad to have someone else raise your kids.

KC Kings · 03-27-2007, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saulbadguy

That 65% will come in very handy when saving for my childs college. It would be tough to do both (stay at home AND save for a childs college).

Daycare does not raise children, parents do. I don't know why that is such a tough concept to comprehend.

My wife stays at home. We have our kids in educational play groups. I read to them every night. I coach every sports team. We do homework together. Each kid had 2 years of preschool, (a couple hours a day 3 times a week). We get 50 different parenting magazines and take advice from all of them to raise our kids the best that we can.

However, we are not licensed teachers or trained coaches, and my kids have learned a great deal from the other teachers, assistant coaches, etc... that they come into contact with. I worked with my son for 3 weeks trying to teach him how to tie his shoe. The first day of pre-school he tells his teacher that, and in 5 minutes she taught him how. I play with my kids all of the time, and was struggling to find the right way to explain to my daughter how to throw a baseball. Another kids dad shows her the "bird" technique and she instantly gets it and is making good throws. Daycare might not raise a child, but it has take a significant part of raising them?

**Saulbadguy** · 03-27-2007, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC Kings

Your exactly right. It is called priorities. Some make the highest priority doing what is best for the kids, and others put personal goals and making more money to buy more stuff on on what is more important.

You have to do what is best your family, I agree. Some families can not afford to have a stay at home mom. Some families would rather pay for their child's college rather than have their child work through school. I wouldn't fault anyone for sending their child to daycare, nor would I fault anyone for having a stay at home mom (or dad). It's all about priorities, I wouldn't call either right or wrong.

Simplex3 · 03-27-2007, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eazyb81

So in your world, it's either:

1. Mom must stay home, give up career, and raise children, or

2. Not have kids.

Are you one of the Geico cavemen?

Also, i'm sure your wife will have a scintillating career once the kids grow up. Her 5+ years of cleaning diapers would surely trump the professional experience her peers will have on their resume.

Nobody said it had to be the mom. I worked out of the house and was the kids' in-home parent for a while.

And just to be clear, my wife was offered a CFO position with a growing insurance company just last month, despite the fact that "all" she's done is clean diapers for 5+ years. She turned it down because her primary focus is raising our kids.

I guess some of us are more concerned with things not related to money, power, and status. I'm pretty sure when my wife and I are lying on our death beds we won't be wondering "Hmmm, did I work enough hours?" or "I think I probably should have worked more...". I can assure you I won't be thinking "Damnit. I really wanted that Mercedes before I died." To each their own, though.

crazycoffey · 03-27-2007, 08:33 AM

As with many major life decisions the key word is balance. I agree mostly with Saulbadguy (crap, the world must be ending) you do have to do whats best for you and your family with what you have.

My first wife stayed home for a few years with the kids then daycare came in a year for one and two years for the second - before they were set to start elementry school.

The second wife, we are trying now, believes in daycare and if the decision is up to her we would put the kid in daycare only a few weeks to a few months after birth. So I will probably end up the stay at home parent....

I personally believe the kids need to go to learn social skills before class officially starts, you can do half days for a few months to a year and then full time for a few more prior to starting official school, plus I want to make more money and get ready for their college..... However I think the kids need to be old enough to communicate to you any problems that could be happening at the daycare. I put the first ones in a daycare that had webcams, so I could check in periodically through the day, I liked that option....

vailpass · 03-27-2007, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eazyb81

So in your world, it's either:

1. Mom must stay home, give up career, and raise children, or

2. Not have kids.

Are you one of the Geico cavemen?

Also, i'm sure your wife will have a scintillating career once the kids grow up. Her 5+ years of cleaning diapers would surely trump the professional experience her peers will have on their resume.

Typical response that springs from the guilt of people who let someone else raise their kids.
Note the bitter and groundless dig at the female's career options should she raise her own children.
A woman's career is doomed if she stays home when her kids are young.
Now who sounds like the Geico caveman?

Mile High Mania · 03-27-2007, 08:49 AM

I think it's insane for anyone to point the finger at others and say what they're doing is wrong with something like this. Everyone has different scenarios with their lives. I think most people would love to avoid daycare for the most part, but it's not reality.

It's all about picking the right day care and deciding the right amount of time during the day/week for your kid(s) to be there.

My kids go a few hours a day for the interaction with other kids and we've picked a place where they actually learn things. Our goal is for our kids to be as well prepared for kindergarten and functioning around other kids as best as possible.

I wouldn't want my kids there for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, but some folks can't make that happen.

The thing I find odd is that I see moms that are obviously stay at home moms and they take their kids to day care full time. I wouldn't do that, but that's their decision. I have no idea what goes on at their home and I can only assume.

Anyone here saying "you shouldn't have kids if you're not going to keep them out of daycare" is being a bit high and mighty.

There's a balance to all of this as someone said, and it's your job to find that balance and you shouldn't have to worry about people judging you.

I have three kids - 5 yr, 3 yr and 9 months. The 5 and 3 yr old have a lot of great friends and they learn a lot by going to the place we take them at church a few hours for 3 days a week.

The kids are learning a lot from us (I hope) and I know they're learning a lot from the school. I also know that their interaction with other kids is going to do them well when they go to kindergarten.

**Saulbadguy** · 03-27-2007, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

I think most people would love to avoid daycare for the most part, but it's not reality.

That's a good post. I think 99% of people would avoid daycare if they could sustain the same lifestyle they are used to and not take any hit financially.

Simplex3 · 03-27-2007, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazycoffey

The second wife, we are trying now, believes in daycare and if the decision is up to her we would put the kid in daycare only a few weeks to a few months after birth. So I will probably end up the stay at home parent....

I've seen the results of that between my two kids and several I know that were at daycare damn near from birth. It's simply not possible for the daycare kids to get the kind of attention and work that a kid who has one-on-one with mom or dad does.

As for the whole "we make money to prep them for college" argument. My wife and I put several thousand dollars into an education savings account when each kid was born. When they're 18 they'll get the keys to that account and will be allowed to do whatever they want with it. It will, however, be the last of daddy's money they ever see. We also encourage my family to put money in those accounts for holidays instead of buying them more s**t they don't need. Get them one or two toys, then put the rest in the account.

Will that pay for their entire college? Maybe, maybe not. I don't really care either way. If I've done my job they'll be ready to handle themselves at 18. It'll be time for them to learn that they don't get s**t unless they work for it.

03-26-2007, 06:50 PM
C-Mac Lurker Extraordinaire Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Wally World Casino cash: $-946301	Justifying Day Care http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune....justify_d.html Justifying day care "As if I don’t already feel guilty for putting my son in day care at the tender age of three months, a new study shows that the more time children spend in center-based care before kindergarten, the more likely they’ll fight, disobey and argue, according to their 6th grade teachers. The increase in problem behavior was slight, but studies like this inspire me to look for the silver lining. And I always return to the same thing: "the hygiene hypothesis," or the belief that early exposure to germs helps the immune system develop properly. While most children get six to eight infections a year, children in day care bring home twice that number, or about one a month. Day-care settings --or petri dishes, as my pediatrician calls them-- have high levels of indoor allergens and have been shown to incubate and spread antibiotic resistant bacteria. This sounds like a no-brainer: Keep your children at home! But since most of us don't have that option--63 percent of U.S. children under the age of five spend 37 hours a week in child care--I manage to get through the work day by reminding myself my kids might turn out healthier in the long run. Some research bears this out. A 2005 study in the British Medical Journal showed that children who attended day care in the first few months of life are less likely to develop leukemia than children who do not, most likely because they were protected from exposure to common infections. Similar associations have been reported for Type 1diabetes and allergies and asthma in children. Still, even if they have stronger immune systems, is it worth sending them to day care if they’re going to have behavioral issues that persist at least until 6th grade? That, according to the research, published in the March/April issue of "Child Development," is up to the parents. The researchers involved with the longest and most comprehensive study of child care in the U.S. cautioned that parenting quality was a much more important predictor of child development than the type, quantity or quality of child care. Ultimately, while quality day care is important, a quality home environment matters more." We had to do without some things obviuosly but the wife and I both agreed that her being at home while the children were young, was far more important than her having a career or us having a new car or house. We now get compliments all the time about our kids and their behavior and I truly feel that this is one of the main reasons why. I do understand that not everyone's situation allows mom to stay home(especially single moms), but I do think that there are many cases that if they just tried to live a little simpler, they could pull it off.
Posts: 5,659

03-27-2007, 08:00 AM	#47
JBucc MVP Join Date: Oct 2005 Casino cash: $10004952	So on average, how much does a Daycare cost a week these days? I mean, in the Midwest not in Cali or something where everything's a bazillion dollars.
Posts: 12,016

03-27-2007, 08:14 AM	#52
vailpass Psycho Bag Of Squanch Join Date: Sep 2001 Casino cash: $9594244	I can't imagine someone other than my wife or me being there to see our kids' first step, laugh, new word or any of the thousand and one other things that make being a parent worth while. I've seen a lot of professional associates, mostly women, try to act like they don't wish they were at home with their kids instead of working all day. Not one of them convinced me they really felt that way. How sad to have someone else raise your kids. __________________ “Education is a weapon whose effect depends on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed.” Joseph Stalin Last edited by vailpass; 03-27-2007 at 08:23 AM..
Posts: 69,591

03-27-2007, 08:33 AM	#56
crazycoffey .......... Join Date: Dec 2006 Casino cash: $4157901	As with many major life decisions the key word is balance. I agree mostly with Saulbadguy (crap, the world must be ending) you do have to do whats best for you and your family with what you have. My first wife stayed home for a few years with the kids then daycare came in a year for one and two years for the second - before they were set to start elementry school. The second wife, we are trying now, believes in daycare and if the decision is up to her we would put the kid in daycare only a few weeks to a few months after birth. So I will probably end up the stay at home parent.... I personally believe the kids need to go to learn social skills before class officially starts, you can do half days for a few months to a year and then full time for a few more prior to starting official school, plus I want to make more money and get ready for their college..... However I think the kids need to be old enough to communicate to you any problems that could be happening at the daycare. I put the first ones in a daycare that had webcams, so I could check in periodically through the day, I liked that option....
Posts: 28,392

03-27-2007, 08:49 AM	#58
Mile High Mania #triggering Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Tejas Casino cash: $1047229	I think it's insane for anyone to point the finger at others and say what they're doing is wrong with something like this. Everyone has different scenarios with their lives. I think most people would love to avoid daycare for the most part, but it's not reality. It's all about picking the right day care and deciding the right amount of time during the day/week for your kid(s) to be there. My kids go a few hours a day for the interaction with other kids and we've picked a place where they actually learn things. Our goal is for our kids to be as well prepared for kindergarten and functioning around other kids as best as possible. I wouldn't want my kids there for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, but some folks can't make that happen. The thing I find odd is that I see moms that are obviously stay at home moms and they take their kids to day care full time. I wouldn't do that, but that's their decision. I have no idea what goes on at their home and I can only assume. Anyone here saying "you shouldn't have kids if you're not going to keep them out of daycare" is being a bit high and mighty. There's a balance to all of this as someone said, and it's your job to find that balance and you shouldn't have to worry about people judging you. I have three kids - 5 yr, 3 yr and 9 months. The 5 and 3 yr old have a lot of great friends and they learn a lot by going to the place we take them at church a few hours for 3 days a week. The kids are learning a lot from us (I hope) and I know they're learning a lot from the school. I also know that their interaction with other kids is going to do them well when they go to kindergarten. __________________
Posts: 30,894