Question about the Army Reserve

[Hydrae]

My 17 year old son is a junior in High School and has every intention of going in to the military upon graduation next year. I just got off the phone with my wife who was telling me about the recruiters being at the house and giving my son a pre-test of some kind. He had 25 minutes to complete the test. He finished in 15 minutes and only got one out of 50 questions wrong. The recruiter was rather impressed.

My question has to do with what my wife said they are wanting to do going forward. There is talk of my son "working" for the Army Reserve this summer but returning for his senior year of high school. After graduation he would then go through basic (that may be what the plan is for this coming summer, not sure), then a 3 month training period followed by college. This is a 6 year commitment for him.

Is it normal for a 17 year old to be going through basic training (his birthday is eraly July)? Is it normal for this to happen when there is still a year of HS left before graduation? Basically, is this normal at all? I have no military experience myself nor does anyone in my immediate family.

Thanks for any input, I am just being a concerned parent

[SNAFU]

Originally Posted by Saccogoo

And that's why military suicides are at an all time high in 2008? Because it's not the case anymore? IT IS THE CASE! Right now!

And I'm not bitter. I'm being honest.

I am not arguing that. I just don't think it is a fair assessment to claim they are turning their heads at problems associated with soldiers and their families.

[joesomebody]

Originally Posted by pestilenceaf23

You can kiss my ass.

Seconded... anyone who has put time in on Active Duty flight lines during surges is not a "slack ass." I support all branches of the military and feel a healthy rivalry is great, but reality fails to shine through in so many cases.

During my time at multi branch bases it was constantly the Navy or Army lagging behind, or on the sidelines puking during readiness runs. Is that indicitive of the entire Navy or Army? **** no.

Yes, it is quite safe to assume that the Army and Marines are going to have greater odds of seeing combat, but do you really expect every member of the Air Force to be on the front lines? Do you want our bombers and fighters to be that close to the fight? Hell no that is the advantage America has over so many countries, we can strike from halfway around the world before they know what hit them.

[joesomebody]

Originally Posted by Hydrae

Thanks guys, this is the 17 year old dumb-ass who will join. No matter the costs.

God bless, good luck, and give 'em hell.

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by SNAFU

I am not arguing that. I just don't think it is a fair assessment to claim they are turning their heads at problems associated with soldiers and their families.

Here's a little bit of the exchange between Amy Goodman and Mark Benjamin regarding military suicide and murders from Benjamin's article of February 9, 2009. Here's a link to the article, which is a series: http://www.salon.com/news/special/co...tro/index.html

--------

"Amy Goodman: Well, the news website Salon.com just completed an in-depth investigation into a rash of suicides and murders since 2004 at one army base, the Fort Carson base in Colorado. They found most of the deaths were preventable and could have been avoided, but for the neglect and inadequate care returning combat veterans got from the Army.

Mark Benjamin: An interesting twist, and I think this is unfortunately indicative of some of the attitude at Fort Carson, before Adam died, he painted on the wall his suicide note in big black letters, black paint, where he blamed the Army for his death. He blamed the mistreatment for his death, in this suicide note. “The Army took my life,” he wrote. And his mother flew out there soon after the suicide attempt and found that the Army was responding to the suicide attempt in part by charging Adam with destruction of government property. When his mother found out, she was so angry she half-jokingly offered to paint over the suicide note if they would drop the charges. The Army took her up on it, gave her a can of paint. She painted over her own son’s suicide note, and the Army still charged Adam anyways.

What’s interesting is that when we looked at these deaths—and again, there’s a lot of focus on the suicides in the Army because, as you may have mentioned, there were more suicides, more soldiers died of suicide in the month of January 2009 than died in combat in Iraq and Afghanistan. But there’s also these murders going on, as well. When we talked to the Army, basically what they did is they gave us a list of initiatives that they are undertaking to prevent suicide: you know, hiring more counselors, putting together hotlines, putting out memos that are so that people get better diagnosed. But when you go to a place like Fort Carson and you hang out on the base and you meet with the soldiers and you walk the barracks and you go to the hospital and so on and so forth, they just don’t seem to be happening. I mean, these—they look good on paper. You know, when I interviewed the Army, the initiatives that they list sound terrific. They’re just not happening out in the field. And as a result, you know, an unknown number of soldiers are involved in violence, are not getting treatment, they’re self-medicating, and they’re acting out against themselves and against innocent people."

------

Fair assessment or not?

[Hydrae]

Originally Posted by Hydrae

Thanks guys, this is the 17 year old dumb-ass who will join. No matter the costs.

Well, I see that when I told him he could read the thread he decided to post as well.

Gotta love kids. It is better than killing them.

[Iowanian]

Someone should tell him about the physical and the vaccination shots...

[SNAFU]

Originally Posted by Saccogoo

Here's a little bit of the exchange between Amy Goodman and Mark Benjamin regarding military suicide and murders from Benjamin's article of February 9, 2009. Here's a link to the article, which is a series: http://www.salon.com/news/special/co...tro/index.html

--------

"Amy Goodman: Well, the news website Salon.com just completed an in-depth investigation into a rash of suicides and murders since 2004 at one army base, the Fort Carson base in Colorado. They found most of the deaths were preventable and could have been avoided, but for the neglect and inadequate care returning combat veterans got from the Army.

Mark Benjamin: An interesting twist, and I think this is unfortunately indicative of some of the attitude at Fort Carson, before Adam died, he painted on the wall his suicide note in big black letters, black paint, where he blamed the Army for his death. He blamed the mistreatment for his death, in this suicide note. “The Army took my life,” he wrote. And his mother flew out there soon after the suicide attempt and found that the Army was responding to the suicide attempt in part by charging Adam with destruction of government property. When his mother found out, she was so angry she half-jokingly offered to paint over the suicide note if they would drop the charges. The Army took her up on it, gave her a can of paint. She painted over her own son’s suicide note, and the Army still charged Adam anyways.

What’s interesting is that when we looked at these deaths—and again, there’s a lot of focus on the suicides in the Army because, as you may have mentioned, there were more suicides, more soldiers died of suicide in the month of January 2009 than died in combat in Iraq and Afghanistan. But there’s also these murders going on, as well. When we talked to the Army, basically what they did is they gave us a list of initiatives that they are undertaking to prevent suicide: you know, hiring more counselors, putting together hotlines, putting out memos that are so that people get better diagnosed. But when you go to a place like Fort Carson and you hang out on the base and you meet with the soldiers and you walk the barracks and you go to the hospital and so on and so forth, they just don’t seem to be happening. I mean, these—they look good on paper. You know, when I interviewed the Army, the initiatives that they list sound terrific. They’re just not happening out in the field. And as a result, you know, an unknown number of soldiers are involved in violence, are not getting treatment, they’re self-medicating, and they’re acting out against themselves and against innocent people."

------

Fair assessment or not?

Sad story. The problems at Fort Carson are not new news. Accountability would go a long way here.

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by Iowanian

Someone should tell him about the physical and the vaccination shots...

I still have that scar on my shoulder! Sonsabitches.

As well, I spent five days in the hospital at Ft. Riley after the vaccinations. I guess the typhoid/yellow fever/plague shot didn't set well with me. Between the 104 degree fever, the dumbass nurse trying to shove a 16 gauge IV up my arm (damn thing looked like it was a equine veterinary needle) about 13 times without hitting the vein, the hallucinations, etc., it was a most pleasant experience.

[Cheater5]

Originally Posted by Saccogoo

Don't give me that bullshit. I've been in the military. I've lived in military towns. (Spend 13 years in Colorado Springs and you'll know what a military town really is - at every level of the military. I have acquaintances ranging from low level enlisted to O7's, from educational roles to combat.) And you've got a military who has basically ignored or, more accurately, tried to sweep under the rug, suicide, domestic violence, crime rates for the past seven years. The Department of Veteran affairs has virtually ignored any potential post-traumatic stress syndromes associcated with servicemen and women that have served in the various military branches, particularly those serving in combat or combat support roles, since the invasions and subsequent occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq.

In 2008 active duty suicides were at an all-time high, up 11% from 2007, and actually eclipsed the civilian suicide rate for the first time ever. However, most suicides by military personnel occurred more than a year after they returned home from duty. And considering that this is from a 2005 study: "At least 120 Americans who served in the U.S. military killed themselves per week in 2005, CBS News learned in a five-month investigation into veteran suicides. That's 6,256 veteran suicides in one year, in 45 states.", it's substantially worse now, where even the usually truculent Army admits to 2008 being the highest ever for suicides. As well, the Omvig Bill that was passed in 2007 which was supposed to help the VA prevent potential suicides has been made worthless in that it no longer requires the VA to screen patients for suicide risk factors or track veterans that were deemed to be "at risk" of committing suicide.

So, tell me if my "biased opinion" is contrary to the facts.

And the fact regarding re-enlistment is that we are in an exceedingly bad economy and the military represents one of the few employers happy to make good offers to newcomers as well as current employees. I personally know a guy who was National Guard, got deployed to Iraq and "re-upped" over there just for the $100,000 that the Army gave him, in cash, and tax free (because if you stay in while in Iraq, it's tax free money). Not many companies out there that are giving those types of signing bonuses, especially to non-educated employees.

And as far as an opportunity to learn about yourself, I guess if you want to learn if you have the moral fiber required to put a round through some "suspected" combatant while occupying a foreign country in order to safeguard it's geological resources for American corporate interests, I guess that's a hard lesson to learn. I would think that someone could learn a lot more about themselves and other cultures by serving in the Peace Corps or the like, but some people I guess need to learn about themselves dealing with the intricacies of international imperialism by learning how to pull a trigger when you've got the barrel of a gun pointed at another human being.

Personally, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find military personnel using forums/bulletin boards like this for recruiting tools. The Army is great! You get to learn about yourself! We pay for college! Yeah team!

PTSD is a huge problem, and the facts speak for themselves; you are correct. But then again no shit wildman, I still serve. I dont need you or an article written by some hack with an axe to grind to tell me that. Great statistics from above- can the vaunted CBS news, or you, for that matter prove that all 6,256 veterans who killed themselves in 2005 served in Afganistan or Iraq? There are about 24 million vets in the U.S.
And to claim that the ONLY reason us witless fucks reenlist in a combat zone is for the money, and we have nothing better to do with our lives is arrogant, condescending, and shows how blissfully unaware you are of the motivations Soldiers have. You know nothing of what stirs a warrior to serve his country during wartime. Nothing.
You want to use google-fu and post stats on military suicide rates, murder, and drug use; then knock yourself out. But to try and dissuade a person from joining because of these reasons (your personal views on the war, notwithstanding) insults them as well. This is a thread about joining the Army Reserve; go troll in the D.C forum.

[TrebMaxx]

Originally Posted by Saccogoo

I still have that scar on my shoulder! Sonsabitches.

As well, I spent five days in the hospital at Ft. Riley after the vaccinations. I guess the typhoid/yellow fever/plague shot didn't set well with me. Between the 104 degree fever, the dumbass nurse trying to shove a 16 gauge IV up my arm (damn thing looked like it was a equine veterinary needle) about 13 times without hitting the vein, the hallucinations, etc., it was a most pleasant experience.

I bit my tongue long enough trying to ignore you. For you Saccogoo to have the nerve to say that "Artillery is for pussies. Biggest bunch of slackasses I ever saw in the military, other than the entire Air Force." But you can't handle a few vaccinations! Why don't you just you freakin pussy!

And for all of you that have served, I salute you no matter what branch or occupation. We are all on the the same team.

For Hydrae's 17 year old, thank you for what you are about to do. Take it seriously, it is serious business. That is the advice I gave to my nephew who has done 3 tours in Iraq. One tour with the 2nd ACR and 2 with the 101st AB.

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by Cheater5

And to claim that the ONLY reason us witless fucks reenlist in a combat zone is for the money, and we have nothing better to do with our lives is arrogant, condescending, and shows how blissfully unaware you are of the motivations Soldiers have. You know nothing of what stirs a warrior to serve his country during wartime. Nothing.

I like that. Warrior. Gets you off, doesn't it? So, tell me Mr. Warrior, what stirs you to serve in the military for the past couple of years during our occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan? I'd really like to know what your motivations are, especially considering that as it stands, over 4,000 Americans dead, over 30,000 wounded, as well as 250,000 plus Iraqi's dead (and that's on the low side estimate - there are numerous international agencies that put that total over 1,000,000). So, since I have no idea what stirs a "warrior" to serve in wartime (although, since I myself have served (infantry), my brother has served, my sister-in-law lost her father in Vietnam, my two uncles served in Vietnam, one of my best friends has a purple heart and a bronze star from his time in Vietnam, and my grandfather served in WWII, I'm sure I have no clue whatsoever) what's your motivation? What stirs you?

You want to use google-fu and post stats on military suicide rates, murder, and drug use; then knock yourself out. But to try and dissuade a person from joining because of these reasons (your personal views on the war, notwithstanding) insults them as well. This is a thread about joining the Army Reserve; go troll in the D.C forum.

I never insulted the original poster, nor did I ever try to dissuade them. An adult should be capable of making their own decisions - as long as they have all the facts regarding that decision. However, having a child (and a 17 year old person is, by the very definition, a child) hounded by military recruiters in an effort to get them to serve in the military, especially while that military is in a current state of armed conflict, is a different story altogether. And that's what the original poster was asking.

[ClearmontChief]

Originally Posted by Hydrae

He is young, dumb and full of cum if you know what I mean. He is 17 and fancies himself tough and indestructible. There is no way I could stop him once he hits 18, he intends to join up. I am just doing my best to convince him to go into intel or something that may keep him a little safer.

Clearmont, what did you mean about being married to the Reserves for life? That statement concerns me a lot.

I'll offer you my opinion, and that's all it is, my opinion.

"married to the Reserves". You do this for your whole life, if you want. A weekend a month and a couple weeks in the summer...until you're called up and deployed to the war. Your benefits package isn't as good, health insurance is "Tricare Reserve Select". For me, that's comparable to "Tricare Standard", which doesn't have premiums, but, you have higher percentages to pay for procedures and co-pays. While I was on Active Duty, the pre-natel care was free, and it cost $24.00 to have my first son, and $42 to have my second. My daughter and her Army Reserve husband have been told it'll cost over $2200 to birth their baby with Tricare Reserve Select. He's hoping to get his deployment orders (which will place him on active duty = Tricare Prime = a couple hundred for delivery) soon enough to change his status.

But, the point of married to the reserves is, you have your other job, and you're also in the Reserves. You're going along with your life, and then you have to go get a haircut, shave off the beard, and go to drill for the weekend. Your wife, kids, job are put on hold because you have to go, no option. You leave for a couple weeks drill, same thing. Off you go, and your boss has to let you, your family watches you leave again. And you do this for your entire adult life if you want to take it to retirement. Even if you earn 'Active Duty' credit, you retire with pension once you're 60.

I've been retired with pension and full benefits since I was 39. And, I'm done! No weekends, no summer drill, no deploying to war, no haircuts, no beard trimming, no anybody telling me where to live. How much more money as pension do you think I'll get from 39 until death than someone who's pension doesn't start until 60?

The Air Force started me in Satellite communications, then they moved me into Telecommunications which later became Telecommunications/Computer Operations, and finally just Computers. They taught me computers, and now I have a 2nd career as a Computer Contractor, still working for the Air Force but make ridiculous money for a farm kid from NW Missouri. Over 70K! Plus, my full pension. Now, I mean no disrespect to anyone...my son-in-law is a transportation guy, truck driver in the Reserves. He has had a terrible time getting a decent job in the civilian world, the best he's done is a Miller Lite Route driver...not bad, but not big $$$. Once again, meaning no disrespect, if your 'Infantry' how will that translate to a civilian job? Security guard? Not big $$$ at all. The military trains you to fight, kill and how to keep from being killed...great experience, but doesn't translate to civilian life once your skills aren't needed.

During my 20 year career, I started in Texas (as all AF guys do), then to California, then Nebraska, next Alaska (1 year 'overseas' remote), back to Nebraska, then to Vegas for 4 years and finishing near St. Louis. NEVER was I, as a computer guy, placed in harms way...although, my support job was just as important to them in war as in peace.

Sure, there are Air Force Specialties that put you in the middle of things, Forward Air Controllers, Pararescue, Explosive Ordinance Disposal, and Security forces. There's also Mobile Communications guys. But, generally speaking you're talking about support work.

So, I joined the military, was Active Duty for 20 years, with better pay and was trained with a great job that translated to my second career. And, I was done and drawing a pension at 39. The military wasn't a part time job for my entire adult life while I waited until 60 to draw a pension.

My daughter and her husband are expecting a baby on April 4th. In the 2nd week of May he leaves for training in Indiana which is his 2nd deployment & activation to the war, then off to Iraq in June/July. She's going to be alone the entire first 1 & 1/2 years of their new baby's life. The "it's only a weekend a month, couple weeks in the summer, and a lot of college money" is BS as far as I'm concerned, it's a lifetime commitment, at poor pay, and yeah some college money. But, generally all branches of the military have programs to pay for some tuition re-imbursement, 10K to join the Air Force, and while you're on Active Duty you have 100% tuition assistance, and you have the GI Bill.

I'm just as proud of my Air Force career and the support I provided (the Generals/decision makers use data on their COMPUTERS to decide how/where to deploy forces, drop bombs, the intel of where the bad guys are at) without being shot at.

I have every respect for those willing to go in harms way and do the mission. Bless you! Please be safe. But, there are other ways to serve.

I think the point of my original reply was that few understand/believe that the Guard/Reserve are the primary fighters of this war. A unit is called up from here or there, activated, trained, sent to the war. Then, rotated home and another Reserve unit activated. Check the death scrolls, I have. The reserve guys are fighting this war while, generally speaking, the active duty guys are supporting, just like always. Think about that for a minute. "it's only a weekend a month, a couple weeks in the summer, and a whole lot of help with my college money"...and, being activated, deployed repeatedly to the war, being shot at and all that entails (injury, physically & mentally), leaving the family behind for a year or better at a time.

I've meant no disrespect to any person serving in the Reserves or Guard, on the contrary. You're the ones fighting and I respect that a lot. You're also not getting paid enough for your commitment. Bless you, be safe!

[Cheater5]

Originally Posted by Saccogoo

I like that. Warrior. Gets you off, doesn't it? So, tell me Mr. Warrior, what stirs you to serve in the military for the past couple of years during our occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan? I'd really like to know what your motivations are, especially considering that as it stands, over 4,000 Americans dead, over 30,000 wounded, as well as 250,000 plus Iraqi's dead (and that's on the low side estimate - there are numerous international agencies that put that total over 1,000,000). So, since I have no idea what stirs a "warrior" to serve in wartime (although, since I myself have served (infantry), my brother has served, my sister-in-law lost her father in Vietnam, my two uncles served in Vietnam, one of my best friends has a purple heart and a bronze star from his time in Vietnam, and my grandfather served in WWII, I'm sure I have no clue whatsoever) what's your motivation? What stirs you?


I never insulted the original poster, nor did I ever try to dissuade them. An adult should be capable of making their own decisions - as long as they have all the facts regarding that decision. However, having a child (and a 17 year old person is, by the very definition, a child) hounded by military recruiters in an effort to get them to serve in the military, especially while that military is in a current state of armed conflict, is a different story altogether. And that's what the original poster was asking.

Getting back to this late. But thought it deserved a response.

Yep; one who serves honorably as a professional soldier in combat is a warrior. It doesn't get me off. It is a title.
So you have friends and family members that served in World War II and Vietnam, and some of them did not make it back, or were wounded. Some of them, from what you say were awarded the Bronze Star Medal. And you served as an infantryman. I respect that.
But you, do not know what motivates those in combat. You experienced life as a grunt, but not in combat. To know is to have been there, and done it. Knowing someone, or being related to someone, does not equate to knowing. Hearing stories about putting body parts in human remains pouches does not equate to doing it, and ruining your uniform and boots with bodily fluids of your comrade (go ahead and roll your eyes at that word, too). Hearing or reading stories about mortars exploding 15 meters from you, does not equate to knowing what the overpressure feels like and to see your own knee bouncing and jangling uncontrollably with fear. Attending a memorial service for someone who died of a disease, or car crash- although tragic- is far different from going to one for a 19 year old you saw 8 days prior with both legs traumatically amputated, and so doped up on morpine that he keeps apologizing for getting wounded. How about cleaning the blood, hair, and stinking gore out of the inside of a Stryker in 120 degree heat with your weapons cleaning kit and Qtips while flies land in human goo and then land on your face? Did you watch a movie or talk with someone who let you know what it's all about? So. I don't owe you an explanation of what 'stirs' me. To use your own words, no- you do not have a clue.

And yes, you did insult that 17 year old person, by insinuating that he or she will be at high risk of contracting PTSD and becoming suicidal ("Look at the statistics!") or abuse drugs, or even a murderer if they enlist in the military. Your disdain for all things military is readily apparent.

Yes, yes. By all means, don't enlist. Run away. Mock those that do instead. It's dangerous out in the world. Other people will do what must be done in spite of personal consequences, or personal dangers.

Congratulations! You actually got me to write shit down that I havent thought about in a few weeks! Suffice it to say- you and I operate and think180 degrees out from eachother.

[Hydrae]

Well, my son took his ASVAB (sp?) yesterday. He scored a high of 69 which I believe is quite good. Any insights on what this means? He is getting the physical done today and will be back home tonight but I talked to him on the phone after work last night.

[joesomebody]

Originally Posted by Hydrae

Well, my son took his ASVAB (sp?) yesterday. He scored a high of 69 which I believe is quite good. Any insights on what this means? He is getting the physical done today and will be back home tonight but I talked to him on the phone after work last night.

Nothing wrong with a 69. I think the Air Force requires somewhere in the 40s to enlist, and they have the highest score requirement.

Basically what he will want to do is get a guaranteed job, or MOS before actually signing up. No reason to play Russian Roulette with his career/training.

With his score he should have a large selection of potential jobs to choose from.

*Edit, forgot that the ASVAB divides into several categories. I wondered what you meant by a high, but I remember now.

They tend to use those scores to decide what you are best suited for. So if his high was in Mechanical for example, there is a good chance he'll be in the motor pool, etc.

His overall score is an average. So you can look at what categories he scored well in, then get on the internet and start looking at jobs that he'll qualify for and possibly enjoy.