Temper, temper, Gunther...

[Hammock Parties]

[chop]

Originally Posted by CoMoChief

Yeah he sure didn't turn Jared Allen into one of the best pass rushers in the game.

I don't think Gunther had much to do with Allen being a pass rusher. Allen was a stud pass rusher coming out of college and continued it in the NFL.

[the Talking Can]

Originally Posted by tk13

It wasn't that he failed his second time around... it's that he did it, got everything he supposedly wanted, ran his mouth, then took none of the blame when it bombed... then threw both of the head coaches he worked for under the bus. That was a total joke. I think he may be every bit if not more responsible for the failure of the last decade over anyone. I don't know how anyone can respect him. He wasted 5 years of everyone's time... ours, DV, Herm, Carl... everyone, just because he wanted to relive the "glory days." And thanks Carl for letting it happen.

i would totally do you for writing that


f that clown

[Deberg_1990]

Originally Posted by CoMoChief

We just didn't have shit to work with while Gun was here his 2nd time around.

And partially of that is his fault, as he had some say as to what players he wanted on defense.

Sammy Knight was old and slow, so was Surtain, and Ty Law, Bell was a ILB in a 34 defense trying to make a change to SLB in a 43 when everyone KNEW he was horrible in coverage. Our interior DL sucked with a bunch of failed DV draft picks and horrible veteran castoffs. It's hard to turn that kind of bad, into some good. I will blame him for the misuses of some players, DJ, Mitchell (should have played WLB), Fujita. The only bright spot was Jared Allen. Dumbasses on here will complain he only showed up for half of a game....well most of the time DE's lose their battles anyway. He was good enough for a trip to Hawaii and his bus ticket out of town to another team that was willing to give him big money.

I just can't blame Gunther for everything that was wrong on this defense while he was here. Some of his players are shining now. And I can't think of any coach that can field a good defense without at least SOME talent. We just didn't have any.

This is he sort of attitude that keeps this guys employed. At what point do you stop blaiming everything else but the man himself?

[Rausch]

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy

Hilarious that you criticize Haley at every turn, but you will always like Gunther.

Gunther is a garbage DC. He was a good DC when he had Neil Smith, Derrick Thomas, James Hasty and Dale Carter. If you give any DC 2 stud corners and 2 incredible pass rushers, they are going to look good.

He doesn't have much to work wtih in Detroit? Really? He has one of the best defensive lines in the NFL, and they still can't stop the run. Suh was a ready-made project and I would bet that when Gunther leaves, he will continue to progress.

Every coach in the NFL cares about what they are doing.

I'm glad that loser is far away from KC.

Gunther is much like Marty in that he has the ability to motivate on a single-game basis.

He could take the worst D in the league and if they were playing the defending champs shut them down.

Then give up 300 passing yards the next week to whatever team signs Purple Drank and get blown out by 30+.

At heart, yeah, I like Gun. I like his personality, his way of doing things, his work ethics...but his RESULTS suck.

And in the end that's what it all comes down to.

I wish him the best (in the NFC) but I don't want him anywhere near our division...

[stevieray]

Originally Posted by tk13

It wasn't that he failed his second time around... it's that he did it, got everything he supposedly wanted, ran his mouth, then took none of the blame when it bombed... then threw both of the head coaches he worked for under the bus. That was a total joke. I think he may be every bit if not more responsible for the failure of the last decade over anyone. I don't know how anyone can respect him. He wasted 5 years of everyone's time... ours, DV, Herm, Carl... everyone, just because he wanted to relive the "glory days." And thanks Carl for letting it happen.

you know, sadly, this post rings pretty damn true...any semblance of a defense during the DV years would've been golden.

[Dave Lane]

I think gunther was a pretty lame head coach and DC but because of his love and passion for the Chiefs I can't hate him, I kinda grudgingly love the old coot.

[Dave Lane]

Plus he sent douche nozzle Johnny a care package

[CoMoChief]

Originally Posted by chop

I don't think Gunther had much to do with Allen being a pass rusher. Allen was a stud pass rusher coming out of college and continued it in the NFL.

Yup, Jared Allen took what he could do at DIAA Idaho St, and perfectly transitioned it all to the NFL with no coaching at all.

[Rausch]

Originally Posted by tk13

It wasn't that he failed his second time around... it's that he did it, got everything he supposedly wanted, ran his mouth, then took none of the blame when it bombed... then threw both of the head coaches he worked for under the bus.

Problem was he took that job knowing he'd be a powerless stooge and still took it. Then got pissed when asked to $#ine the $3it.

What made it worse was when he finally did get his dream shopping list and most of the guys on it BOMBED.

Originally Posted by tk13

I don't know how anyone can respect him. He wasted 5 years of everyone's time... ours, DV, Herm, Carl... everyone, just because he wanted to relive the "glory days."

The "Glory Years" would have been when we wasted time on GROB and allowed the "No Punts" game in our house.

The buck still passes upward. Carl wouldn't force DV to fire a failing GROB but he would overrule him for LJ.

WTF?...

When Carl did use his influence and power as a GM it most often did not end well and quite often was contrary to his HC at the time...

[CoMoChief]

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990

This is he sort of attitude that keeps this guys imployed. At what point do you stop blaiming everything else but the man himself?

If you would read, I said part of the reason was Gunther's.

He had say on some draft picks and FA's that were brought here obviously.

But he inherited many players from a defense that was among the leagues worse.....ever. You need good players to succeed in this league, that fact has never changed. We weren't able to have that here in KC because DV and Carl sold their souls to amp up our offense at the expense of having no defense. They didn't want to stop people as opposed to challenging other teams to keep up with us on the scoreboard.....well, that didn't work, but they didn't care. You know why? Because they're both at the end of their careers, they were both getting ready to retire. After DV left this team was left with nothing, we didn't have any up and coming stars except a few, our best player wanted to be traded to a winner (TG) and not go through another "rebuilding" process, if you'd even call it that. We wouldn't have gone 2-14, 4-12, 4-12 the last 3 seasons or so had DV cared about the draft while he was here.

If that doesn't make sense to you then look no further to the amount of DV's draft picks/FA's that are still on this team. I can think of only 4, one of which played most of his career in Indy then came back home (Lilja) and another is a ****ing Punter....(whoopdee ****in doo). That leaves a declining Brian Waters and Derrick Johnson, who is FINALLY starting to shine after 5 seasons.

Brian Waters
Ryan Lilja
Derrick Johnson
Dustin Colquitt

That's only 4 players.....out of 9 seasons. Like I said before, Gunther was part of the decision making I'm sure, in bringing some players into KC/draft picks etc....but he was inherited with crap. Sure people say in the mid-90's he succeeded because of DT, N.Smith, Carter, Hasty, Collins, Saleamua. But you need talent. I can't think of any good DC that can succeed and field a really good defense with crap players.

[Rausch]

Originally Posted by CoMoChief

Yup, Jared Allen took what he could do at DIAA Idaho St, and perfectly transitioned it all to the NFL with no coaching at all.

It sure as **** wasn't Crummy helping him refine his game...

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by CoMoChief

If you would read, I said part of the reason was Gunther's.

He had say on some draft picks and FA's that were brought here obviously.

He had say on some really pricey ones. Surtain, Bell, Sammy Knight, Carlos Hall. If you recall, they were on his shitty, shitty wish list. And then he turns around and drafts Siavii. To my understanding, those decisions were almost entirely Gunther's. Let's not pretend that Gun didn't have a very valuable opportunity to bring in talent and completely whiffed.

But he inherited many players from a defense that was among the leagues worse.....ever. You need good players to succeed in this league, that fact has never changed. We weren't able to have that here in KC because DV and Carl sold their souls to amp up our offense at the expense of having no defense.

That's a load of bullshit. The Chiefs were one of the worst defenses in the NFL last year by a lot. Today they are good enough and sometimes very good this season and the only move they made was bringing in Eric Berry. He's good but you can't tell me one guy turned that whole thing around. And the talent Romeo has is not better than the talent Gunther had. And when Gunther came in, the front office flooded him with talent. They gave him a blank check in '04, used the majority of 1st and 2nd round picks on defensive players... He had more than enough opportunities. Part of coaching is the ability to recognize talent so you can a) bring them in; b) put them in a good position to make plays; c) make sure the good players see playing time over the bad. Gun had no concept of that. The other part is coaching his players up. Gun whiffed on both accounts.

They didn't want to stop people as opposed to challenging other teams to keep up with us on the scoreboard.....well, that didn't work, but they didn't care. You know why? Because they're both at the end of their careers, they were both getting ready to retire. After DV left this team was left with nothing, we didn't have any up and coming stars except a few, our best player wanted to be traded to a winner (TG) and not go through another "rebuilding" process, if you'd even call it that. We wouldn't have gone 2-14, 4-12, 4-12 the last 3 seasons or so had DV cared about the draft while he was here.

DJ, Dorsey, and Hali are a million times better now that Gun has left. DJ is a pretty glaring sign of why Gun was a joke. He had an uber-talented player and could never get anything out of him. He moved him from outside to inside. Fired his LBs coach. Insisted on coaching the guy himself. Nothing.

Guess what? Gary Gibbs and Romeo have him playing at 10x the level he played under Gun.

If that doesn't make sense to you then look no further to the amount of DV's draft picks/FA's that are still on this team. I can think of only 4, one of which played most of his career in Indy then came back home (Lilja) and another is a ****ing Punter....(whoopdee ****in doo). That leaves a declining Brian Waters and Derrick Johnson, who is FINALLY starting to shine after 5 seasons.

Brian Waters
Ryan Lilja
Derrick Johnson
Dustin Colquitt

That's only 4 players.....out of 9 seasons. Like I said before, Gunther was part of the decision making I'm sure, in bringing some players into KC/draft picks etc....but he was inherited with crap. Sure people say in the mid-90's he succeeded because of DT, N.Smith, Carter, Hasty, Collins, Saleamua. But you need talent. I can't think of any good DC that can succeed and field a really good defense with crap players.

Romeo is making it work despite serious talent shortages at Nose Tackle, inconsistent play at DE, an average ILB, and a lackluster free safety, as well as really shitty depth. He's doing it by getting the right players on the field, creative adjustments (e.g. 2-4 defense), in-game adjustments, and coaching players up.

Gun, on the other hand, never made in-game adjustments, had the same shitty predictable scheme with blitzes and corners playing 15 yards off the receiver, had players that couldn't tackle and played without heart or discipline, and during his tenure the ONLY player that really got any better under his watch was Jared Allen. One player.

But of course, it's all about the players.