Career Advice

[Ralphy Boy]

Went thru the same thing a year ago. Took less money than the 25% increase I was offered elsewhere but still netted a 10% pay increase at a place I'm comfortable and I know they respect me.

Its not all about the money. When I first came to my current employer, I left a place I really liked and was well respected because I thought the grass would be greener. When I got here, I hated it and regretted it for the first few years. I had to start completely over to earn respect from a management team that sucked the big one. Management changes occured (because the old one sucked the big one) and I see eye to eye with the new top dog, who seems to like me better than he does most of my peers.

I took less short term, in favor of what I viewed as a better long term situation. In hindsight it was still a good move, based on what I've heard from a couple of colleagues at the other company.

[Jenson71]

Career Advice:

I want to counter-offer with their offer plus health insurance costs that I've researched. They don't offer health insurance. In my counter, is it wise to point out how I'm coming to that salary? I can think of one pro and one con:

Pro: It shows my offer is not arbitrary.
Con: They might look and say, "We told you we don't offer health insurance. Now you're asking for us to cover your health insurance."

[Buehler445]

I'd agree to their terms but ask for a stipend or some sort of compensation for health insurance.

If they don't have a group plan, they won't get one just for you. If they cover part of the cost, it gives them another point to negotiate. They may give you a flat amount or a portion of the cost.

Don't be to sticky about it. Some companies can't negotiate.

[Jenson71]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

I'd agree to their terms but ask for a stipend or some sort of compensation for health insurance.

If they don't have a group plan, they won't get one just for you. If they cover part of the cost, it gives them another point to negotiate. They may give you a flat amount or a portion of the cost.

Don't be to sticky about it. Some companies can't negotiate.

I know that this company can negotiate, though. My thought is that they could counter with something half-way. However, I really, really think that my counter is very reasonable, and I'm prepared to walk away if not met. I want it the job though, with the +3800. Is it stupid to have +3800 so important? It's not a huge percentage increase, but it's a good increase.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by Literature

I know that this company can negotiate, though. My thought is that they could counter with something half-way. However, I really, really think that my counter is very reasonable, and I'm prepared to walk away if not met. I want it the job though, with the +3800. Is it stupid to have +3800 so important? It's not a huge percentage increase, but it's a good increase.

That's fair. If it is important to you, then do it. It is tough to know with me knowing nothing about the job or your career.

[qabbaan]

What kind of company is this? Size? Corporate?

The reason I ask is that most companies have pretty well defined salary ranges these days around job titles, and they may not often bend the rules around those ranges. You might be able to negotiate yourself to the top of the salary range for the mid level position, but then you won't leave yourself room for growth in coming years without a title promotion. In some places it's hard to get a promotion to a senior level within a couple of years of coming on board.

Getting hired in at the higher title also helps you in the future if you change jobs or the company goes under or you are laid off. Having a senior title on your last position qualifies you for the same, arguing that you were highly paid for a mid level guy is not as easy of a case... They would say, well, this is the limit of our range for a mid level salesman/analyst/tech/whatever.

[qabbaan]

Oh, sorry. I was responding to the OP

[Jenson71]

I try to avoid starting new threads if I can do it. I figured this thread had enough experienced people to bump it.

[qabbaan]

Originally Posted by Literature

I know that this company can negotiate, though. My thought is that they could counter with something half-way. However, I really, really think that my counter is very reasonable, and I'm prepared to walk away if not met. I want it the job though, with the +3800. Is it stupid to have +3800 so important? It's not a huge percentage increase, but it's a good increase.

I wouldn't raise the health insurance issue. Just give them your salary demand and if they can't meet it they can't.

Implied in asking them to cover insurance costs this year is that you are going to expect them to continue covering your approximate costs, but insurance is going to go up, life changes could happen, etc.

Your finances aren't their recruiter's concern, just follow the process.

[Jenson71]

Originally Posted by qabbaan

I wouldn't raise the health insurance issue. Just give them your salary demand and if they can't meet it they can't.

Implied in asking them to cover insurance costs this year is that you are going to expect them to continue covering your approximate costs, but insurance is going to go up, life changes could happen, etc.

Your finances aren't their recruiter's concern, just follow the process.

I agree with you here.

[Jenson71]

The great thing about the job is that I can be a partner by the time I'm 29 years old. The bad part about the job is that I will be biting the bullet for those first few years with a pretty damn low salary. But my counter is still in the lower 25th percentile of comparable graduates, so I'm just very much stuck on having that +3800 raise.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by Literature

The great thing about the job is that I can be a partner by the time I'm 29 years old. The bad part about the job is that I will be biting the bullet for those first few years with a pretty damn low salary. But my counter is still in the lower 25th percentile of comparable graduates, so I'm just very much stuck on having that +3800 raise.

To me that seals the deal. Future income goes a hell of a lot further than $3800 now. But you could still negotiate for it.

[WilliamTheIrish]

Saul, it sounds like you were being invited to the SEC.

How did it all turn out btw?

Even though this is a bumped thread I'll give my anecdotal advice. I was called about a position in July of '11. Exactly what I was doing but the pay was 34% higher.

We talk more and I agree to come out for an interview and a 3 day visit and observation. Upon driving up to the place, the building sells itself. It's quite beautiful. I notice when I enter the area where I work, that it's small, cluttered, and the equipment is ...older. Which seemed odd to me. If you're going to build a new building, why not put new up to date equipment in it? Also, the employees actually look like they don't want to be there. Two in particular were extremely indifferent to me. (Turns out, I took over what the two of them had been doing together for eight years and moved them into roles more suited to their skills. So I wasn't just imagining things.)

Technologically, the company where I was at the time had a practice of getting and maintaining the newest, best equipment. We had in house service in the event anything broke down and the company policy was "If it's down, fix it. Now".

I failed to ask that question when I was interviewing for three days. Older equipment breaks. Constantly. And with no in house repair, the new place relies on a contract but does not pay OT (after 5 pm weekdays or weekends) rate for repair. That's really bad service and really bad negotiation on a contract.

Three days of interviews and upon leaving I'm told by the Operations Manager " We have interviewed 12 candidates. You're number one the list. BUT, we cannot make the decision until after Labor Day".

So I leave thinking I've got 30+ days to think about what I want to do with my career. Until the following Thursday (4 days after returning) when the Operations Manager of the department calls and offer me the job. I stumble through the phone discussion and accept. I immediately call and discuss it with my boss and director at the time.

My boss offered to find me more money. I told her not to worry about it. I couldn't leave. The day I walked into that job in KC I knew I was there for life. So, I have a change of heart leaving that day and call the other company to say, "I'm sorry, I was a little hasty in accepting. Please understand, that for reasons I cannot really put into words, I can't accept the position".

He expresses his disappointment but agree it's better to know this now rather take the position and regret the move later. All seemed settled. Until the HR and Compensation guy calls me the next day and says: "Normally, I make the job offer calls. And when I do, I prefer to allow the prospective employee to take a day or two to decide. This is a big move, and you're going to move 2k miles away. Why don't you take a few days and think it over? Also, in order to make this more worth your while, we are going to offer you a little more compensation in salary (7500$ more annually plus the 34% higher salary). I'm stunned. I agree that I'll take a few days to think it over.

In the end, I accepted. But I do regret it. I battle disengaged employees every day. While I can be a taskmaster, I prefer not to manage 30+ employees in that manner. I've terminated 4 employees and need to remove about two more giant tumors before this ship will sail smoothly. Compounding the issue, is equipment failure. Getting timely (same day) repair is like pulling teeth. Although we have made enormous strides in that area.

The long story here Saul from my perspective is you're only 32/33 years old. I took this offer with the same thought you did: "If I don't take it now, I may never get the opportunity". In that respect, I'm glad I did it. But just know, that you'll get more offers. Good employees, smart employees always will. And my offer came when I was 50.

I know this because I was contacted by another place this week. Out of the blue. (I guess Linked In is good for something). It pays more than what I'm getting now and is within 30 miles of the beach. I don't know what will happen, but I'm not averse to listening to what they have to say.

Hope it all worked out for you.

[Saul Good]

Originally Posted by WilliamTheIrish

Saul, it sounds like you were being invited to the SEC.

How did it all turn out btw?

Even though this is a bumped thread I'll give my anecdotal advice. I was called about a position in July of '11. Exactly what I was doing but the pay was 34% higher.

We talk more and I agree to come out for an interview and a 3 day visit and observation. Upon driving up to the place, the building sells itself. It's quite beautiful. I notice when I enter the area where I work, that it's small, cluttered, and the equipment is ...older. Which seemed odd to me. If you're going to build a new building, why not put new up to date equipment in it? Also, the employees actually look like they don't want to be there. Two in particular were extremely indifferent to me. (Turns out, I took over what the two of them had been doing together for eight years and moved them into roles more suited to their skills. So I wasn't just imagining things.)

Technologically, the company where I was at the time had a practice of getting and maintaining the newest, best equipment. We had in house service in the event anything broke down and the company policy was "If it's down, fix it. Now".

I failed to ask that question when I was interviewing for three days. Older equipment breaks. Constantly. And with no in house repair, the new place relies on a contract but does not pay OT (after 5 pm weekdays or weekends) rate for repair. That's really bad service and really bad negotiation on a contract.

Three days of interviews and upon leaving I'm told by the Operations Manager " We have interviewed 12 candidates. You're number one the list. BUT, we cannot make the decision until after Labor Day".

So I leave thinking I've got 30+ days to think about what I want to do with my career. Until the following Thursday (4 days after returning) when the Operations Manager of the department calls and offer me the job. I stumble through the phone discussion and accept. I immediately call and discuss it with my boss and director at the time.

My boss offered to find me more money. I told her not to worry about it. I couldn't leave. The day I walked into that job in KC I knew I was there for life. So, I have a change of heart leaving that day and call the other company to say, "I'm sorry, I was a little hasty in accepting. Please understand, that for reasons I cannot really put into words, I can't accept the position".

He expresses his disappointment but agree it's better to know this now rather take the position and regret the move later. All seemed settled. Until the HR and Compensation guy calls me the next day and says: "Normally, I make the job offer calls. And when I do, I prefer to allow the prospective employee to take a day or two to decide. This is a big move, and you're going to move 2k miles away. Why don't you take a few days and think it over? Also, in order to make this more worth your while, we are going to offer you a little more compensation in salary (7500$ more annually plus the 34% higher salary). I'm stunned. I agree that I'll take a few days to think it over.

In the end, I accepted. But I do regret it. I battle disengaged employees every day. While I can be a taskmaster, I prefer not to manage 30+ employees in that manner. I've terminated 4 employees and need to remove about two more giant tumors before this ship will sail smoothly. Compounding the issue, is equipment failure. Getting timely (same day) repair is like pulling teeth. Although we have made enormous strides in that area.

The long story here Saul from my perspective is you're only 32/33 years old. I took this offer with the same thought you did: "If I don't take it now, I may never get the opportunity". In that respect, I'm glad I did it. But just know, that you'll get more offers. Good employees, smart employees always will. And my offer came when I was 50.

I know this because I was contacted by another place this week. Out of the blue. (I guess Linked In is good for something). It pays more than what I'm getting now and is within 30 miles of the beach. I don't know what will happen, but I'm not averse to listening to what they have to say.

Hope it all worked out for you.

I wound up taking it, and it's worked out well.