Chiefs So who are the goats on our offensive line and how do we fix it? - Page 4

**RealSNR** · 09-16-2013, 11:17 AM

And no, I don't mean the acronym for "Greatest Of All Time".

If you ask me, Branden Albert was the only one yesterday playing what Romeo would call good football. The difference in line play between when Albert was on the field and when Stephenson was filling in for him was night and day, and that's just at one position.

Fisher's problems have been noted by other people. He's still getting held upright in unbalanced stances half the time, which makes him pretty easy to push back into the pocket. Only thing I imagine we can do there is hope he figures shit out as the season goes on. Perhaps even look to next offseason as a time when he can really get this bullshit out of his system for good.

In the middle, though, I have no clue what the hell is up. All I know is yesterday the DTs for Dallas allowed no pocket formation of any kind. I can probably count on one hand the number of times Smith had more than 2 seconds to survey the field, step up, and make a throw. Our passing game flourished the most when we rolled him out, or he escaped the collapsed pocket and improvised. God, I never thought I'd hear myself say that about Alex Smith. Weird.

Hudson's hit or miss. I just get the feeling he's not the right type of center to play in the NFL. Never has been. Allen's just meh. Asamoah, like Hudson, is hit or miss, and the mistakes he makes sometimes are inexcusable for the expectations we placed on him as a future starter. He's been doing this for much longer than Hudson or Allen, so he should be a significant notch above them in play, but he's not.

So let's hear your theories. Some of you offensive line junkies (I'm looking at you, milkman) should feel free to diagnose exactly what's wrong with these guys instead of my casual observations of "Hudson sometimes doesn't do a very good job."

Also, with the problems we have going for us right now on the line, I'm beginning to think we need Albert longterm. We probably can't afford him, and we probably won't keep him, but we still need him. If an anchor like him drops out next year, our line's gonna be ****ed pretty hard.

**petegz28** · 09-16-2013, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halfcan

Kush?

6'4", 313. Probably not the answer but still has almost 10 more pounds than Asamoah and 15 more than Hudson.

Mr. Laz · 09-16-2013, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halfcan

Kush?

struggled in preseason against 3rd stringers

**petegz28** · 09-16-2013, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz

struggled in preseason against 3rd stringers

I am all for replacing either Hudson or Asamoah with Schwartz. Hudson is getting knocked off the ball because he is too light and Asamoah isn't far behind that.

Schwartz is taller and heavier. That is why it seems our line plays better when he is in.

**RealSNR** · 09-16-2013, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

It's hilarious how people wanna give Hudson so much shit. The guy has started 4-5 freaking games, Jesus H. Christ, maybe give the kid some time?

People wanna hate on Hudson and then say, "Oh I still believe in Asamoah". Fisher, Hudson, Allen and Stephonson all deserve "more time" than Asamoah.

I don't think anybody's on the Asamoah train right now. Regardless of scheme change, for the amount of experience and talent he had coming out of college and his experience as a starter in the NFL, he should be MUCH better than what he is now.

If we don't see a significant increase in solid play from him this season, I have no desire to see him re-signed. Those cap dollars can go to someone far more worthy.

Mr. Laz · 09-16-2013, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

I am all for replacing either Hudson or Asamoah with Schwartz. Hudson is getting knocked off the ball because he is too light and Asamoah isn't far behind that.

Schwartz is taller and heavier. That is why it seems our line plays better when he is in.

whatever it takes ... just didn't see anything impressive about Kush in preseason.

Stephenson didn't look as good either

i don't know whether is scheme,coaching or the player but Hudson doesn't seem to know who to block on blitzes.

**petegz28** · 09-16-2013, 01:36 PM

Jeff Allen, Hudson and Asamoah.....3 of the lightest O-lineman on the team.

And you wonder why our shit gets pushed in from up the middle?

Mr. Laz · 09-16-2013, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

Jeff Allen, Hudson and Asamoah.....3 of the lightest O-lineman on the team.

And you wonder why our shit gets pushed in from up the middle?

The previous scheme pulled and move the interior guys a lot. Which also lent itself to the stretch play that Charles was so successful in.

This scheme is not the same and lighter Oline don't fit as well. Our running game and stretch play isn't as good either.

that said ... it's not like they are small, all around 300lbs

**DaneMcCloud** · 09-16-2013, 01:42 PM

I think what this offensive line needs is time.

The Chiefs of 2013 are completely starting over in nearly every facet, to training to scheme to coaching and personnel. Unlike the days before the current CBA when coaches were allowed two-a-days, multiple OTA's and other time in the building, these guys just haven't had time to become a cohesive unit.

If by the sixth game, the offensive line is still struggling, it would be time to make some moves: Hudson to left guard and Kush to center would be my early recommendation. Asamoah and Schwartz will likely battle for the right guard spot all (which will likely need an upgrade or change after the season).

If they continue struggle, there's probably not much that can be done until the 2014 offseason. I don't think Stephenson is a guard and the Chiefs are stuck with Fisher. There's no doubt that he'll need to improve throughout the season but I highly doubt they bench him.

**DaneMcCloud** · 09-16-2013, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

Jeff Allen, Hudson and Asamoah.....3 of the lightest O-lineman on the team.

And you wonder why our shit gets pushed in from up the middle?

It's technique and mental that's at issue, not weight.

**the Talking Can** · 09-16-2013, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz

you are actually whining and bleeding so much it can't be contain in one thread?

tell us more about how greedy Bowe is, laz...

**petegz28** · 09-16-2013, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz

The previous scheme pulled and move the interior guys a lot. Which also lent itself to the stretch play that Charles was so successful in.

This scheme is not the same and lighter Oline don't fit as well. Our running game and stretch play isn't as good either.

that said ... it's not like they are small, all around 300lbs

Roaf-320
Shields-315
Tait-312
Waters-320
Weigman-285

4 out the 5 of one of our best O-lines ever were all heavier than our line. In fact, with the exception of Weigman, our heaviest lineman now, Albert, is just a shade over the 2nd lightest we had then.

That's just what I mean. No bulk at the line. I even thought that with Haley, that he went too small. That's why our shit gets pushed in up the middle and always has for the last 4 years.

Mr. Laz · 09-16-2013, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I think what this offensive line needs is time.

new coaches
new scheme
new group of Oline
young Oline

hopefully they just need time to learn and gel

**petegz28** · 09-16-2013, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

It's technique and mental that's at issue, not weight.

I agree but weight never hurts. It's one thing to be technical. It's another when you can lay 320-340 pounds on a D-lineman for 4 quarters.

Great Expectations · 09-16-2013, 01:51 PM

At OU Stephenson was better as a guard than tackle, or he at least was exposed a lot less as a guard.

Mr. Laz · 09-16-2013, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

Roaf-320
Shields-315
Tait-312
Waters-320
Weigman-285

4 out the 5 of one of our best O-lines ever were all heavier than our line. In fact, with the exception of Weigman, our heaviest lineman now, Albert, is just a shade over the 2nd lightest we had then.

That's just what I mean. No bulk at the line. I even thought that with Haley, that he went too small. That's why our shit gets pushed in up the middle and always has for the last 4 years.

Haley yelled at them to lose weight

he had Albert down to 298 at one point iirc

09-16-2013, 11:17 AM
RealSNR Special Teams ACE!!! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Where the hell is SNR Casino cash: $-1374792	So who are the goats on our offensive line and how do we fix it? And no, I don't mean the acronym for "Greatest Of All Time". If you ask me, Branden Albert was the only one yesterday playing what Romeo would call good football. The difference in line play between when Albert was on the field and when Stephenson was filling in for him was night and day, and that's just at one position. Fisher's problems have been noted by other people. He's still getting held upright in unbalanced stances half the time, which makes him pretty easy to push back into the pocket. Only thing I imagine we can do there is hope he figures shit out as the season goes on. Perhaps even look to next offseason as a time when he can really get this bullshit out of his system for good. In the middle, though, I have no clue what the hell is up. All I know is yesterday the DTs for Dallas allowed no pocket formation of any kind. I can probably count on one hand the number of times Smith had more than 2 seconds to survey the field, step up, and make a throw. Our passing game flourished the most when we rolled him out, or he escaped the collapsed pocket and improvised. God, I never thought I'd hear myself say that about Alex Smith. Weird. Hudson's hit or miss. I just get the feeling he's not the right type of center to play in the NFL. Never has been. Allen's just meh. Asamoah, like Hudson, is hit or miss, and the mistakes he makes sometimes are inexcusable for the expectations we placed on him as a future starter. He's been doing this for much longer than Hudson or Allen, so he should be a significant notch above them in play, but he's not. So let's hear your theories. Some of you offensive line junkies (I'm looking at you, milkman) should feel free to diagnose exactly what's wrong with these guys instead of my casual observations of "Hudson sometimes doesn't do a very good job." Also, with the problems we have going for us right now on the line, I'm beginning to think we need Albert longterm. We probably can't afford him, and we probably won't keep him, but we still need him. If an anchor like him drops out next year, our line's gonna be ****ed pretty hard.
Posts: 93,331

09-16-2013, 01:36 PM	#51
petegz28 Supporter Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Olathe, Ks Casino cash: $-945873	Jeff Allen, Hudson and Asamoah.....3 of the lightest O-lineman on the team. And you wonder why our shit gets pushed in from up the middle?
Posts: 132,353

09-16-2013, 01:42 PM	#53
DaneMcCloud Supporter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Hollywood, CA Casino cash: $10053648	I think what this offensive line needs is time. The Chiefs of 2013 are completely starting over in nearly every facet, to training to scheme to coaching and personnel. Unlike the days before the current CBA when coaches were allowed two-a-days, multiple OTA's and other time in the building, these guys just haven't had time to become a cohesive unit. If by the sixth game, the offensive line is still struggling, it would be time to make some moves: Hudson to left guard and Kush to center would be my early recommendation. Asamoah and Schwartz will likely battle for the right guard spot all (which will likely need an upgrade or change after the season). If they continue struggle, there's probably not much that can be done until the 2014 offseason. I don't think Stephenson is a guard and the Chiefs are stuck with Fisher. There's no doubt that he'll need to improve throughout the season but I highly doubt they bench him.
Posts: 88,960

09-16-2013, 01:51 PM	#59
Great Expectations MVP Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Joplin, MO Casino cash: $10862338	At OU Stephenson was better as a guard than tackle, or he at least was exposed a lot less as a guard. __________________
Posts: 7,303