Cardinals ***Official 2023 STL Cardinals Thread *** - Page 48

**BigRedChief** · 10:48 AM

2023 thread. Walker makes the roster. I'll update the rosters and opening day lineup when its official

2023 Opening Day Lineup

Spoiler!

2022 Opening Day roster.

Spoiler!

For the new Cardinal fans that joined the Planet since last year, here are some of the historical threads going back to 2006.

Spoiler!

DJ's left nut · 06-13-2023, 03:39 PM

Let's turn off reality for a minute. What of these deals are deals that - if the Cardinals had any balls at all - the other team would make?

Goldschmidt, Flaherty and Montgomery to Baltimore for Colton Cowser and DL Hall
Arenado to Arizona for Brandon Pfaadt (we eat some contract in the deal)
O'Neill (if healthy) to Cleveland for Aaron Civale
Contreras and $40 million to - who gives a ****? Just go away.

Every team involved in those deals badly needs what I'm offering (RH offense and SP for Baltimore, 3b for AZ and RH power for Cleveland). And each of them have a significant amount of depth in the areas I've targeted.

The Cardinals can eat a ton of those contracts if necessary to facilitate the trades and still get leaner and more flexible for the new management I'm bringing in after I make 'em. The trades free up positions for the young players on this roster to let them actually play where they may be successful on defense. It retains some rotation depth this season (Pfaadt is big league ready, Civale is an established veteran) and creates a ton of competition into next season with Hall, McGreevy, Graceffo and Thompson. It opens the C position back up for Knizner (who looked credible just before he got thrown back to the bench because Mozeliak got tired of answering questions) and Herrera, who's been our best minor leaguer this year. Again.

So is the catch that I'm just asking for way too much in return for the guys I'm moving?

DJ's left nut · 06-13-2023, 03:54 PM

Trade machine says the Orioles trade is fairly even thought the Cardinals may need to cover some of Goldy's salary for next season to put it over the top - $6-8 million.

The D-Backs deal is similar to the Rox deal - the Cardinals will need to pay a LOT to make that one happen, but I'd do it. They need to include $40 million in cash to get the deal over the line. That still puts us +$80 million over the next 4+ seasons so yeah, I'm making that deal and including the money.

Surprisingly, the O'Neill deal ended up more jammed up than I thought but it shouldn't be all that surprising - he was ass last season and hurt right now. Ultimately I'd have needed to include someone like Burleson or Gallegos. Gallegos and O'Neill for Civale? Yup - done.

Oh, and I needed to eat about $20 million to ditch Contreras, regardless of where I sent him. So...done.

So in total:

Goldschmidt
Montgomery
Flaherty
Arenado
O'Neill
Gallegos
About $70 million in cash (we'll round up for easy math)

for:

Cowser
Hall
Pfaadt
Civale

That team is much younger, cheaper (on balance) and ultimately will be better as soon as 2024.

And we wouldn't do it in a million years because ownership is !@#$ing gutless.

raybec 4 · 06-13-2023, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Let's turn off reality for a minute. What of these deals are deals that - if the Cardinals had any balls at all - the other team would make?

Goldschmidt, Flaherty and Montgomery to Baltimore for Colton Cowser and DL Hall
Arenado to Arizona for Brandon Pfaadt (we eat some contract in the deal)
O'Neill (if healthy) to Cleveland for Aaron Civale
Contreras and $40 million to - who gives a ****? Just go away.

Every team involved in those deals badly needs what I'm offering (RH offense and SP for Baltimore, 3b for AZ and RH power for Cleveland). And each of them have a significant amount of depth in the areas I've targeted.

The Cardinals can eat a ton of those contracts if necessary to facilitate the trades and still get leaner and more flexible for the new management I'm bringing in after I make 'em. The trades free up positions for the young players on this roster to let them actually play where they may be successful on defense. It retains some rotation depth this season (Pfaadt is big league ready, Civale is an established veteran) and creates a ton of competition into next season with Hall, McGreevy, Graceffo and Thompson. It opens the C position back up for Knizner (who looked credible just before he got thrown back to the bench because Mozeliak got tired of answering questions) and Herrera, who's been our best minor leaguer this year. Again.

So is the catch that I'm just asking for way too much in return for the guys I'm moving?

The bold part is the entire issue. They're on pace to be worse than any team the Cards have trotted out in memory and they don't have the sack to say "We are bad but we are building for the future" The current vibe is "We are bad and will do nothing".

jd1020 · 06-13-2023, 04:04 PM

You can **** right off trying to trade pitching to the Orioles because the Cubs are trading Stroman to them for Jordan Westburg.

DJ's left nut · 06-13-2023, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

You can **** right off trying to trade pitching to the Orioles because the Cubs are trading Stroman to them for Jordan Westburg.

I think Westburg busts.

I know he's killing it in AAA but look at his approach. Horrid chase rates and really bad whiff rates to boot. When a guy swings at pitches he shouldn't and misses on pitches he should hit, that's someone that will get carved up at the big league level. Feasting on hanging breakers in AAA won't get you far in the show.

And yeah, i know he's the new hotness for prospect hounds right now but I just don't buy him. I'd take Cowser over him 100 times out of 100.

I've been wrong on profiles like his before - I'm always down on guys like that. Elly De La Cruz is making me look like an absolute reerun at the moment, for instance (though his approach figures were better). But far more often than not, guys like that don't translate against big league pitching.

jd1020 · 06-13-2023, 04:13 PM

I just want him for 3B. Cubs dont need Cowser, but they have dick at 3B.

Where are you seeing minor league stats for whiff and chase rate and shit?

DJ's left nut · 06-13-2023, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

I just want him for 3B. Cubs dont need Cowser, but they have dick at 3B.

Call the Rays.

With Mead, Caminero and Basabe, they have more talent than they can use. Then again, it's the Rays - they'll find a way to combine them into a super-player that gets 650 PAs with 35 bombs, 30 steals and a .980 OPS.

jd1020 · 06-13-2023, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Call the Rays.

With Mead, Caminero and Basabe, they have more talent than they can use. Then again, it's the Rays - they'll find a way to combine them into a super-player that gets 650 PAs with 35 bombs, 30 steals and a .980 OPS.

I've brought up Caminero as well on Cubs forums. Ultimately I think he's worth more and hes a year away and Mead probably gets moved off 3B.

ChiefsCountry · 06-13-2023, 04:20 PM

Since Helsley is on the IL, what Mozeliak really needs to do is trade Masyn Winn for Scott Barlow. That's the move that will put the Cards right back on track.

DJ's left nut · 06-13-2023, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

I've brought up Caminero as well on Cubs forums. Ultimately I think he's worth more and hes a year away and Mead probably gets moved off 3B.

Can't move him to 1b unless you move Manzardo. Shouldn't be moving him to 2b because honestly Basabe probably gets that job long-term.

And in the meantime, they'll probably stumble into another Diaz/Paredes situation where those guys have combined to post MVP numbers between them.

God damn those guys are smart.

DJ's left nut · 06-13-2023, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

Since Helsley is on the IL, what Mozeliak really needs to do is trade Masyn Winn for Scott Barlow. That's the move that will put the Cards right back on track.

Gonna need Chapman in that deal as well - we need an established closer, afterall.

Can Chapman pitch multiple innings and/or in the 7th? If so, we might be onto something here.

jd1020 · 06-13-2023, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Can't move him to 1b unless you move Manzardo. Shouldn't be moving him to 2b because honestly Basabe probably gets that job long-term.

And in the meantime, they'll probably stumble into another Diaz/Paredes situation where those guys have combined to post MVP numbers between them.

God damn those guys are smart.

DH him. His arm was already a question for the left side of the infield and he just had surgery on it and his overall defense probably isnt good enough for 2B. They just signed Diaz to a 3 year deal for 1B. With Arozarena in LF, DH is all that's left. Either DH or trade him to someone with 1B open.

DJ's left nut · 06-13-2023, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

DH him. His arm was already a question for the left side of the infield and he just had surgery on it and his overall defense probably isnt good enough for 2B. They just signed Diaz to a 3 year deal for 1B. With Arozarena in LF, DH is all that's left. Either DH or trade him to someone with 1B open.

Did they really extend Diaz? I figured for sure they'd get him traded for some other 'distressed' prospect that they turned into a star.

And that makes it all the more likely they deal Caminero, IMO. Because I feel like Manzardo is a mortal lock for 1b next season. He's just a perfect 'Rays' player.

jd1020 · 06-13-2023, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Did they really extend Diaz? I figured for sure they'd get him traded for some other 'distressed' prospect that they turned into a star.

And that makes it all the more likely they deal Caminero, IMO. Because I feel like Manzardo is a mortal lock for 1b next season. He's just a perfect 'Rays' player.

3/24 with a club option for 2026.

ChiefsCountry · 06-13-2023, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Gonna need Chapman in that deal as well - we need an established closer, afterall.

Can Chapman pitch multiple innings and/or in the 7th? If so, we might be onto something here.

Well Mo better throw Walker in for Chapman then.

03-29-2023, 08:39 AM
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $-641038 VARSITY	*Official 2023 STL Cardinals Thread * 2023 thread. Walker makes the roster. I'll update the rosters and opening day lineup when its official 2023 Opening Day Lineup Spoiler! Donovan 2B Nootbar RF Goldschmidt 1B Arenado 3B Wilson Contreras C Tyler O'Neill LF Gorman DH Jordan Walker RF Tommy Edman SS 2022 Opening Day roster. Spoiler! The Cardinals anticipated 26-player Opening Day roster projects as follows, but will not become official until Thursday, March 30: PITCHERS (13): Jack Flaherty-RHP, Giovanny Gallegos-RHP, Ryan Helsley-RHP, Jordan Hicks-RHP, Steven Matz-LHP, Miles Mikolas-RHP, Jordan Montgomery-LHP, Packy Naughton-LHP, Andre Pallante-RHP, Chris Stratton-RHP, Zack Thompson-LHP, Drew VerHagen-RHP, and Jake Woodford-RHP; CATCHERS (2): Willson Contreras and Andrew Knizner; INFIELDERS (6): Nolan Arenado, Brendan Donovan, Tommy Edman, Paul Goldschmidt, Nolan Gorman and Taylor Motter; OUTFIELDERS (5): Alec Burleson, Dylan Carlson, Lars Nootbaar, Tyler O’Neill and Jordan Walker; INJURED LIST (3): Paul DeJong-INF, Wilking Rodríguez-RHP, Adam Wainwright-RHP. For the new Cardinal fans that joined the Planet since last year, here are some of the historical threads going back to 2006. Spoiler! 2022 thread https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/show...8#post16877588 2021 Thread https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=337124 2020 Thread https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=329273 2019 Thread https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=320239 2018 Thread https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=312812 2012 Thread https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=254619 etc. All the way back to 2006 WS https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=312812 Last edited by BigRedChief; 03-30-2023 at 10:48 AM..
Posts: 81,281

06-13-2023, 03:39 PM	#706
DJ's left nut Sauntering Vaguely Downwards Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Columbia, Mo Casino cash: $-710901	Let's turn off reality for a minute. What of these deals are deals that - if the Cardinals had any balls at all - the other team would make? Goldschmidt, Flaherty and Montgomery to Baltimore for Colton Cowser and DL Hall Arenado to Arizona for Brandon Pfaadt (we eat some contract in the deal) O'Neill (if healthy) to Cleveland for Aaron Civale Contreras and $40 million to - who gives a ****? Just go away. Every team involved in those deals badly needs what I'm offering (RH offense and SP for Baltimore, 3b for AZ and RH power for Cleveland). And each of them have a significant amount of depth in the areas I've targeted. The Cardinals can eat a ton of those contracts if necessary to facilitate the trades and still get leaner and more flexible for the new management I'm bringing in after I make 'em. The trades free up positions for the young players on this roster to let them actually play where they may be successful on defense. It retains some rotation depth this season (Pfaadt is big league ready, Civale is an established veteran) and creates a ton of competition into next season with Hall, McGreevy, Graceffo and Thompson. It opens the C position back up for Knizner (who looked credible just before he got thrown back to the bench because Mozeliak got tired of answering questions) and Herrera, who's been our best minor leaguer this year. Again. So is the catch that I'm just asking for way too much in return for the guys I'm moving? __________________ "If there's a god, he's laughing at us.....and our football team..." "When you look at something through rose colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags."
Posts: 66,799

06-13-2023, 03:54 PM	#707
DJ's left nut Sauntering Vaguely Downwards Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Columbia, Mo Casino cash: $-710901	Trade machine says the Orioles trade is fairly even thought the Cardinals may need to cover some of Goldy's salary for next season to put it over the top - $6-8 million. The D-Backs deal is similar to the Rox deal - the Cardinals will need to pay a LOT to make that one happen, but I'd do it. They need to include $40 million in cash to get the deal over the line. That still puts us +$80 million over the next 4+ seasons so yeah, I'm making that deal and including the money. Surprisingly, the O'Neill deal ended up more jammed up than I thought but it shouldn't be all that surprising - he was ass last season and hurt right now. Ultimately I'd have needed to include someone like Burleson or Gallegos. Gallegos and O'Neill for Civale? Yup - done. Oh, and I needed to eat about $20 million to ditch Contreras, regardless of where I sent him. So...done. So in total: Goldschmidt Montgomery Flaherty Arenado O'Neill Gallegos About $70 million in cash (we'll round up for easy math) for: Cowser Hall Pfaadt Civale That team is much younger, cheaper (on balance) and ultimately will be better as soon as 2024. And we wouldn't do it in a million years because ownership is !@#$ing gutless. __________________ "If there's a god, he's laughing at us.....and our football team..." "When you look at something through rose colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags."
Posts: 66,799

06-13-2023, 04:04 PM	#709
jd1020 In Search of a Life Join Date: Nov 2010 Casino cash: $7032645	You can **** right off trying to trade pitching to the Orioles because the Cubs are trading Stroman to them for Jordan Westburg.
Posts: 24,502

06-13-2023, 04:13 PM	#711
jd1020 In Search of a Life Join Date: Nov 2010 Casino cash: $7032645	I just want him for 3B. Cubs dont need Cowser, but they have dick at 3B. Where are you seeing minor league stats for whiff and chase rate and shit?
Posts: 24,502

06-13-2023, 04:20 PM	#714
ChiefsCountry The Insider Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Lake of the Ozarks Casino cash: $-1441248	Since Helsley is on the IL, what Mozeliak really needs to do is trade Masyn Winn for Scott Barlow. That's the move that will put the Cards right back on track.
Posts: 52,038