Chiefs Gunther's finger pointing has already begun... - Page 5

DaWolf · 01-21-2009, 12:12 PM

Typical. Would expect nothing less from a guy who loves to blame everyone but himself on his failures...

Quote:

“I’ve gone through three years of playing zone defense because I was loyal to Herm Edwards,” Cunningham said today in a conference call. “That’s what he wanted. People here in town knew that I was different than that. My idea is to put a lot of pressure on the quarterback — always has been, always will be.”

This after you proclaim that you love Herm Edwards and the Cover 2 has always been a part of your scheme and that the "handcuffs" had been taken off with Herm, all while you were throwing Vermeil under the bus.

I guess Gunther really doesn't have a spine.

Quote:

“The emotions get involved, ‘Oh, we’ll play with all these young players,’ ” Cunningham said. “But what you don’t understand is, they have to be led by guys like Jared Allen.”

Quote:

“If you have a lot of young players that you’re going to draft, you have to make sure you work the whole process,” Cunningham said. “I believe the mistake we made here is that they tried to add some UFA players like Demorrio Williams. Well, he doesn’t have enough experience and enough ability to lead a bunch of rookies. …

“I can at least share what happened here and the pitfalls we ran into and see what the process brings.”

Yeah, so the answer I suppose would be signing all those UFA's you had on your list that you gave to Carl and proclaimed that Carl delivered. That Kendrell Bell, helluva leader Gun.

http://www.freep.com/article/2009012...mon+with+Lions

Reerun_KC · 01-21-2009, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

A bad coach makes excuses and points fingers.

You talking about Herm or Gunther?

They were perfect for each other...

SenselessChiefsFan · 01-21-2009, 01:20 PM

The reality is that Gunther is a team guy, a loyal guy. He is now free to answer things honestly.

It would be hard to sell the players on Herm's defense if he is publicly bashing it.

Herm and Gunther like each other, they just have different opinions. The defense was a little bit of both of their styles and in the end, it had no identity and it failed.

**HemiEd** · 01-21-2009, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

I understand the sentiment that he was handcuffed by being forced to run a cover two.

But I also saw how well Ron Rivera adapted to the cover two for the Bears, after working for Jim Johnson in Philly, and how he got improved results from the Charger defense after replacing Ted Cottrell mid season in San Diego.

An actual coach can coach, regardless of scheme.

A bad coach makes excuses and points fingers.

I can't argue with any of that. I grew weary of Gunther the first time around, more so when he was made HC.

Lots of empty promises, one after another. His coaching style (yelling obcentities) has gotten old as well.

But adding Herm to the mix, just made the thing worse.

Too bad Carl didn't leave a year earlier, Jared Allen may still be a Chief.

But that is all behind us now, thankfully, and there is a lot to look forward to.

Red Dawg · 01-21-2009, 01:22 PM

Gun knows defense but he has to have premium talent to run his style of defense.

We need a DC that can teach because Gun can't apparently. Our defense was just as bad at the end of the year as it was at the start. That means the staff taught our guys nothing.

Amnorix · 01-21-2009, 01:23 PM

Viewing this from 1,500 miles away, I'm trying to think of the last time the Chiefs had good talent on defense to work with. Other than Jared Allen, I'm thinking the cupboard has been pretty bare since those Derrick Thomas teams.

I could give a rat's ass about Gunther either way, but I'd think you'd need more than one guy to run an effective defense. In fact, I know you need more than one guy, becuase I've seen how being one or two guys short in key positions undermines the entire defnese, even for a guy like Belichick.

Christofire · 01-21-2009, 01:24 PM

I don't think the Tampa Two is obsolete ... but it does requires getting all of your pressure from the front four. That lets your CBs jump routes and attack the receivers, because they konw they have safeties behind them to make the play. If you don't have a talented front four (like we didn't last year), it's just like any zone and there's plenty of time for the QB to find holes. If Herm stays, we have no choice BUT to draft more defensive linemen. It's the only way the scheme works.

Previously, I've been willing to give Herm a fourth year, but his coaching hires are much more damning to me than his in-game coaching. He kept an aggressive d-coordinator whose heart wasn't in the Tampa Two out of loyalty, instead of bringing in a guy who drinks the Tampa Two Kool-aid and would be excited to run it. He gave Mike Solari a chance because he thought he deserved it, instead of finding a guy he knew could run his offense. The only major coaching hire he's done right is bringing in Gailey to give us some life. It just shows how organizationally screwed up we've been over the past five years, and makes the hire of an outside all the more important.

booger · 01-21-2009, 01:24 PM

Pioli is playing this pretty good though. While going through evaluations he can at least get the coaches side of what they were asking the players to do, in their own words. He can piece that together with what he sees on film while evaluating the players.

While this goes on he realizes they sure don't work well together stabbing each other in the back on the way out. In the end that all points back to the HC. It would tell Clark that he has had him fooled all along, assuming Clark still wants Herm to return which i'm not so sure of.

CoMoChief · 01-21-2009, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuckdaddy

Gun knows defense but he has to have premium talent to run his style of defense.

We need a DC that can teach because Gun can't apparently. Our defense was just as bad at the end of the year as it was at the start. That means the staff taught our guys nothing.

Name one defense that doesn't have to have premium talent to be good

Im really ****in sick n tired of hearing this over and over and over again.
"Gun has to have probowlers to run his type of scheme blah blah blah"
Thats the most reeruned shit I've ever heard.

ON OFFENSE: YOU NEED GOOD PLAYERS TO BE SUCESSFUL
ON DEFENSE: YOU NEED GOOD PLAYERS TO BE SUCESSFUL

The last good player we had one defense since JA was DT, and we traded JA away, great move there. That couldnt have blown up in our faces anymore than it did as we set the record for fewest sacks in NFL history as JA outsacked the entire ****in team, had more safeties, prob had just around the amount of same neg yard plays. The only good thing about the defense last season was the development of the young secondary. THATS IT.

The reason why our offense was so good under DV AS is because he had one of the best OLines in recent memory in the NFL, 4/5 players on the starting Oline were Pro Bowlers. If you have a good Oline, you can have a good offense with a couple playmakers here and there.

Chiefnj2 · 01-21-2009, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Viewing this from 1,500 miles away, I'm trying to think of the last time the Chiefs had good talent on defense to work with. Other than Jared Allen, I'm thinking the cupboard has been pretty bare since those Derrick Thomas teams.

I could give a rat's ass about Gunther either way, but I'd think you'd need more than one guy to run an effective defense. In fact, I know you need more than one guy, becuase I've seen how being one or two guys short in key positions undermines the entire defnese, even for a guy like Belichick.

Part of the lack of talent was Gunther's fault. Back in year 2 of Gun under Vermeil, Gunther listed the players he wanted and he got them - Bell, Hall, Surtain, etc.

Chiefnj2 · 01-21-2009, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoMoChief

Name one defense that doesn't have to have premium talent to be good

Im really ****in sick n tired of hearing this over and over and over again.

ON OFFENSE: YOU NEED GOOD PLAYERS TO BE SUCESSFUL
ON DEFENSE: YOU NEED GOOD PLAYERS TO BE SUCESSFUL

Do you think the Cardinals defense is really good? If they hadn't made it through the wildcard game would you honestly think they had a lot of talent?

FringeNC · 01-21-2009, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

He basically confirmed all of the things that fans have been speculating about for years:

1. Herm insisted on a cover 2 and Gun wasn't a good match for that scheme.
2. The team had no veteran leadership.
3. You don't trade away your best player, especially when it is a pass rushing DE.
4. Gun and Herm are weasels that will push women and children out of their way as they head for the lifeboats.

Rep.

**HemiEd** · 01-21-2009, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by booger

Pioli is playing this pretty good though. While going through evaluations he can at least get the coaches side of what they were asking the players to do, in their own words. He can piece that together with what he sees on film while evaluating the players.

While this goes on he realizes they sure don't work well together stabbing each other in the back on the way out. In the end that all points back to the HC. It would tell Clark that he has had him fooled all along, assuming Clark still wants Herm to return which i'm not so sure of.

Good point, Herm has set an example of back stabbing and throwing others under the bus.
It had to happen, once Herm started deflecting the blame, others were going to do the same. But of course, Gunther has always done it.
Accountability left with DV.

DaWolf · 01-21-2009, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoMoChief

Name one defense that doesn't have to have premium talent to be good

Im really ****in sick n tired of hearing this over and over and over again.
"Gun has to have probowlers to run his type of scheme blah blah blah"
Thats the most reeruned shit I've ever heard.

ON OFFENSE: YOU NEED GOOD PLAYERS TO BE SUCESSFUL
ON DEFENSE: YOU NEED GOOD PLAYERS TO BE SUCESSFUL

The last good player we had one defense since JA was DT, and we traded JA away, great move there. That couldnt have blown up in our faces anymore than it did as we set the record for fewest sacks in NFL history as JA outsacked the entire ****in team, had more safeties, prob had just around the amount of same neg yard plays. The only good thing about the defense last season was the development of the young secondary. THATS IT.

The reason why our offense was so good under DV AS is because he had one of the best OLines in recent memory in the NFL, 4/5 players on the starting Oline were Pro Bowlers. If you have a good Oline, you can have a good offense with a couple playmakers here and there.

That's a fine line. Everyone in the NFL has talent. That's why "on any given sunday" holds true, unless you're the Detroit Lions. The key is to put your talent in a position to be successful, or bring in talent that will help you be successful. Gunther was unable to do either. He had five years of drafts where he was unable to develop anyone of note. In fact, one prime example is Kawika Mitchell, who blossomed once he got away from Gunther. I wouldn't be surprised to see DJ become an all pro now that Gunther is gone. In terms of bringing in talent, it was famously proclaimed by Gunther himself that he personally went to Carl Peterson and gave him a list of players to go get him and Carl delivered on what he wanted. He promised that Kendrell Bell and Sammy Knight and co would turn this defense around, provide the leadership, etc. We still sucked. So to me, across the board, under two totally different head coaches, with two different assistant coaching staffs under him, he failed, and failed spectacularly...

Rooster · 01-21-2009, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoMoChief

The last good player we had one defense since JA was DT, and we traded JA away, great move there.

JA didn't want to be in KC. Why is that so hard for some to understand? He didn't like it here. Period. He played his card and the Chiefs then played theirs. Get over it.

FringeNC · 01-21-2009, 01:49 PM

Gunther Cunningham is a disgrace. He ran HIS defense in 2004 upon his return, and it was a complete disaster. Far worse than Robinson's 2003 unit. The next year, I do think Vermeil took away some of his power, because it was more of a basic defense in 2005, and not quite as bad.

Anytime one of Gunther's defense sucks, it's always someone else's fault.

01-21-2009, 01:20 PM	#62
SenselessChiefsFan MVP Join Date: Nov 2008 Casino cash: $10005450	The reality is that Gunther is a team guy, a loyal guy. He is now free to answer things honestly. It would be hard to sell the players on Herm's defense if he is publicly bashing it. Herm and Gunther like each other, they just have different opinions. The defense was a little bit of both of their styles and in the end, it had no identity and it failed.
Posts: 5,540

01-21-2009, 01:22 PM	#64
Red Dawg Going home eventually Join Date: Dec 2002 Casino cash: $1462858	Gun knows defense but he has to have premium talent to run his style of defense. We need a DC that can teach because Gun can't apparently. Our defense was just as bad at the end of the year as it was at the start. That means the staff taught our guys nothing. __________________ If you're not first you're last!
Posts: 33,091

01-21-2009, 01:23 PM	#65
Amnorix In BB I trust Join Date: May 2003 Location: Boston, Mass. Casino cash: $10029808	Viewing this from 1,500 miles away, I'm trying to think of the last time the Chiefs had good talent on defense to work with. Other than Jared Allen, I'm thinking the cupboard has been pretty bare since those Derrick Thomas teams. I could give a rat's ass about Gunther either way, but I'd think you'd need more than one guy to run an effective defense. In fact, I know you need more than one guy, becuase I've seen how being one or two guys short in key positions undermines the entire defnese, even for a guy like Belichick. __________________ "I love signature blocks on the Internet. I get to put whatever the hell I want in quotes, pick a pretend author, and bang, it's like he really said it." George Washington
Posts: 43,125

01-21-2009, 01:24 PM	#66
Christofire Aberzombie and Fitch Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Southwest Kansas Casino cash: $10004950	I don't think the Tampa Two is obsolete ... but it does requires getting all of your pressure from the front four. That lets your CBs jump routes and attack the receivers, because they konw they have safeties behind them to make the play. If you don't have a talented front four (like we didn't last year), it's just like any zone and there's plenty of time for the QB to find holes. If Herm stays, we have no choice BUT to draft more defensive linemen. It's the only way the scheme works. Previously, I've been willing to give Herm a fourth year, but his coaching hires are much more damning to me than his in-game coaching. He kept an aggressive d-coordinator whose heart wasn't in the Tampa Two out of loyalty, instead of bringing in a guy who drinks the Tampa Two Kool-aid and would be excited to run it. He gave Mike Solari a chance because he thought he deserved it, instead of finding a guy he knew could run his offense. The only major coaching hire he's done right is bringing in Gailey to give us some life. It just shows how organizationally screwed up we've been over the past five years, and makes the hire of an outside all the more important.
Posts: 582

01-21-2009, 01:24 PM	#67
booger Don't Tug on Superman's Cape Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: clear out in the sticks Casino cash: $-2171450	Pioli is playing this pretty good though. While going through evaluations he can at least get the coaches side of what they were asking the players to do, in their own words. He can piece that together with what he sees on film while evaluating the players. While this goes on he realizes they sure don't work well together stabbing each other in the back on the way out. In the end that all points back to the HC. It would tell Clark that he has had him fooled all along, assuming Clark still wants Herm to return which i'm not so sure of. __________________ 1 Thessalonians 5:3 “For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.” KJV
Posts: 12,896

01-21-2009, 01:49 PM	#75
FringeNC MVP Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: NC Casino cash: $-1583986	Gunther Cunningham is a disgrace. He ran HIS defense in 2004 upon his return, and it was a complete disaster. Far worse than Robinson's 2003 unit. The next year, I do think Vermeil took away some of his power, because it was more of a basic defense in 2005, and not quite as bad. Anytime one of Gunther's defense sucks, it's always someone else's fault.
Posts: 10,234