Cop shot dog, owner blamed police

[Msmith]

There are wrong in so many levels in this story.

[wutamess]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Well congratulations, you've granted the local smokies more authority than the Constitution provides them. At least to this point, under our founding document, if the officer didn't directly observe the illegal conduct and doesn't have a search warrant, he's going to need your consent to that search.

Constitutional liberties can be pesky things for government officials. It sucks that they may have to take an extra step here and there to keep from destroying people's property.

You should probably send a few bucks to Barack, he could use your support.

So that isn't the same as... Police get a report about someone smoking weed in a car and when they get to the car they see a pipe? They still have to ask permission? I'd still be innocent for illegal search and seizure. Notice noone's pissing a fit about it other than the owner?

Furthermore, if the cop had to ask permission I'd gladly decline.

[BWillie]

I don't understand why people can have Pit Bulls and I can't even have a little Asian Leopard cat or a Serval. They aren't even big, and never cause any problems. But since they are caused exotic cats you can't have them.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by rockymtnchief

Hell no, licensed or not.

I originally agreed that he handled this wrong.

But, what's the difference between knocking on the front or back door? The complaint said that the shooting came from the back yard. He went where the trouble was reported. If they were shooting out front, should he stand outside the fence and yell until someone came to the door?

Going through a yard gate is not the same as kicking in a door.

BTW...I also think the last quote was unprofessional.

But from a strictly legal perspective, it is. This yard would be considered part of the domicile and thus by entering it, you're all but walking in the front door.

And had he announced his presence in any fashion, the dog would have alerted and this would've been avoided. I still believe fervently that he should've gone to the front door and knocked; this was not a hostage situation. At the same time, simply yelling over the fence or knocking on the gate would have done the trick. The dog would've barked and this guy would've known not to go in the back yard.

It was raw recklessness that led to this. This officer's refusal to exercise basic common sense (and, IMO, follow pretty standard Constitutional procedures), created a problem where there wasn't one.

All the hypothetical ninjas in bushes and dead bodies hidden behind fences can't change that. The facts of this situation are what they are and the officer engaged in supervening conduct that came well after the benign actions of the owner. This is the conduct that created the problem.
Like I said - had Columbus not discovered America, this could all be avoided. At some point it's the intervening actions of a new actor that have to be considered the catalyst. Whatamuss and the rest of the apologists are lucky that there was a city ordinance banning spud guns; I guarantee not all cities have said ordinance. And this cop would have behaved in the same manner regardless of the illegality of the spud gun. He's using it as a convenient scapegoat for his reckless conduct.

Legally speaking, he may have an argument that his conduct was acceptable. However, from a purely pragmatic standpoint, knowing what we know and what the officer has stated, it was just reckless and stupid.

But Buford T. has his back and those numbskulls will certainly pay that fine.

[Iowanian]

Are you an attorney or just prone to crime and not wanting police involvement?

Was your trailer recently raided for your harmless grow-lamp garden being visible through the window?

[Garcia Bronco]

I don't see the big argument here. The cop is guilty of violating the property rights on the owner, and the owner is guilty of firing a potato gun. Fine them both and move on. Then everybody learns a lesson. I lesson learned, is a lesson earned.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by wutamess

So that isn't the same as... Police get a report about someone smoking weed in a car and when they get to the car they see a pipe? They still have to ask permission? I'd still be innocent for illegal search and seizure. Notice noone's pissing a fit about it other than the owner?

Furthermore, if the cop had to ask permission I'd gladly decline.

In fact, it isn't. A car constitutes a legal contingency allowing for a warrantless search.

A back-yard more than likely does not. Cops could walk into houses all the time without a warrant for drug arrests under your set of rules. Yet they don't because they law does not allow it.

It lets some dealers off the hook, but it's a sacrifice we as a society have made in exchange for our liberties...i.e. not getting our dogs shot.

You are essentially espousing a police-state. Like I said, you really should send a few bucks Barack's way; this is some seriously scary shit you are suggesting.

As for your right to decline - that's absolutely what you should do. At that point the officer either needs probable cause to arrest you and conduct a search incident to arrest, or he can go get his search warrant. These are the rules in this country and I'm pretty happy we have them.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Iowanian

Are you an attorney or just prone to crime and not wanting police involvement?

Was your trailer recently raided for your harmless grow-lamp garden being visible through the window?

The former.

I'm also pretty fervently pro-cop. I think I was one of the only guys defending the conduct of the officer in the Moats thread.

But these are not the same circumstances. This is a situation that had diffused itself until the reckless conduct of the officer created a problem where there wasn't one. That's why I continue to refer to it as a supervening catalyst. This thing was done - a knock on the front door and a citation would've been wholly reasonable in light of the facts as known and stipulated to by the officer himself.

Instead, we have a guy with a dead dog and a pack of asshole police officers insulting its consitutuency.

[rockymtnchief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

At the same time, simply yelling over the fence or knocking on the gate would have done the trick. The dog would've barked and this guy would've known not to go in the back yard.

I'll agree with you on this point and I mention whistling and pepper spray in my original post. The shooting could've been avoided, easily.

However, I still think he was correct in approaching from where the spud gun was being fired.

JMO

[Miles]

Originally Posted by wutamess

Furthermore, can you stage a situation any more that it already is with the burial shot of him with his head down.

That picture is great. The flowers and shovel in the shot were also amusing.

[wutamess]

Originally Posted by rockymtnchief

I'll agree with you on this point and I mention whistling and pepper spray in my original post. The shooting could've been avoided, easily.

However, I still think he was correct in approaching from where the spud gun was being fired.

JMO

You fuggers have it all figured out don't you. Nevermind the fact that they have to assume worst case in every ordeal they encounter. I wouldn't announce myself either if I'm responding to a shots fired call.

You guys can argue legality all you want... Do it with your own lives at stake.

[Frazod]

Originally Posted by Miles

That picture is great. The flowers and shovel in the shot were also amusing.

All that's missing is the cross made out of two sticks tied together with rope.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by wutamess

You fuggers have it all figured out don't you. Nevermind the fact that they have to assume worst case in every ordeal they encounter. I wouldn't announce myself either if I'm responding to a shots fired call.

You guys can argue legality all you want... Do it with your own lives at stake.

I think it's funny that you still believe they were treating this as a 'shots fired' call.

They sent one car, one officer. One.

Have you ever heard of a situation where dispatch thought it was sending an officer into a hostile environment and sent one cop? Ever?

You just keep bending over backwards to suck down what they're shoveling. This single officer knew what he was dealing with and he ****ed it up because he was careless. Now he and his enabling boss are backpeddling as quickly as they can despite the fact that every little factual detail goes against their story.

[Miles]

Originally Posted by frazod

All that's missing is the cross made out of two sticks tied together with rope.

A candle at the base of that could add something as well.

[rockymtnchief]

Originally Posted by wutamess

You fuggers have it all figured out don't you. Nevermind the fact that they have to assume worst case in every ordeal they encounter. I wouldn't announce myself either if I'm responding to a shots fired call.

You guys can argue legality all you want... Do it with your own lives at stake.

I don't claim to have anything figured out.

He said he saw the gun through the fence and strolled in.

Why not wait for help? If nobody is back there, whistle for any dogs.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by rockymtnchief

I don't claim to have anything figured out.

He said he saw the gun through the fence and strolled in.

Why not wait for help? If nobody is back there, whistle for any dogs.

You don't understand, it was life and death, immediate stuff.

I know scads of officers that would just walk into a back-yard without backup with the feeling that their lives were in danger.

THIS COP KNEW his life wasn't in danger. He knew he was on his own, he knew he had no backup. Absolutely nothing in his conduct suggests he acted in fear of his own life.

It all points to him acting carelessly. If he feared for his life, he doesn't go in there without backup. He damn sure doesn't go in there and not leave himself an escape path out. No, this was just a reckless officer that strolled into a fence and realized real quickly that he'd ****ed up.

But the hidden ninjas and dead bodies that Whatamuss needs to make his story plausible must've really played hell with this officer's psyche. Facts be damned, ninja assassins are not to be trifled with.