Chiefs Admitting Mistakes..key for the Chiefs franchise - Page 5

**petegz28** · 12-12-2011, 06:29 PM

Everyone makes mistakes. The best players, the best coaches, the best GM's, the best owners. They all make mistakes. But, what makes the best the best is they admit their mistakes, learn from their mistakes and make the necessary corrections.

This is a telling time for Clark and Pioli. Will they repeat the same mistakes they have made or will they understand they made some mistakes and learn from them? Typical of new owners and new GM's, they think they know more than anyone else about what they are doing. The recipie for success is rather simple in this league. Owner needs to hire GM and let him do his job and not meddle. GM needs to hire coach and let him do his job and not meddle.

What mistakes have Clark and Pioli made? Hindsight being 20/20 it's easy to see but that is how we judge our mistakes by looking back and learning.

1. Hiring Haley. Mistake? Most likley. No personal football experience, hot tempered, couldn't get along with people and ran off 2 OC's in 3 years and Muir would probably have only stuck around for the pension had Haley stayed.

2. Matt Cassel. Mistake? Yes but to be fair an honest one. More than the Chiefs were after Cassel and a lot, not all but a lot of the fan base was ok with bringing him in. Ok, fair enough. We have watched him for 3 years and learned he isn't the one.

3. Draft picks. Mistakes? Yes but all teams make them. Jackson was a mistake simply because we put him at a position he has never played and not really built to play. Dexter? Mistake. Never should have been drafted given the needs of the team. By the same token Pioli has made some good draft picks in Berry, Baldwin, Arenas and Moeaki.

4. Lack of team identity. Mistake? Yes but part of that is on the coaching staff as well as the front office. Pioli dictated we would be a 3-4 team when he came in before any coach was ever hired. That's a mistake. Let the coaches evaluate the talent, choose the best strategy for the talent that is there and the front office should cater to that. To elaborate further though I don't think a clear identity has ever been targeted for this team. One minute we want to be a power running team, the next a dink-dunk. One game we are blitzing like crazy, the next we are a pillow-soft zone.

5. Lack of roster depth. Mistake? Clearly. This falls on Pioli and Haley both. You have 3 QB's with a total experience level starting in the NFL of 2 1/2 years combined. No excuse there at all for any of them. None! No line depth on either side of the ball and no depth at LB. The secondary when healthy is fairly deep.

6. Brian Waters. Mistake? In hindsight, yes. I was not terribly upset that he left but when you let him go and he goes and starts for the NE Pats then you made a mistake.

Overall there has been a piss-poor display of leadership on this team from the front office to the coaching staff the defensse being the only exception. A head coach who can't get along with other coaches is a bad seed. Gailey gets ran off. Ok, fair enough. But you do it one week before a season starts? Terrible leadership. Weis gets ran off. Fair enough but now you have gone through 2 OC's in as many years. Not a good track record. Muir has the playcalling taken away from him. Terrible. Muir was a terrible decision in the first place but you gave the guy the job you have to stand by your decisions. When the head coach starts meddling at that level with the coordinators it sends the wrong message to the players.

Pioli has his work cut out for him and should be on the hot seat. He needs to bring in a coach who knows WTF he is doing and listen to that coach. If that coach doesn't want Cassel then Cassel is gone. If that coach wants to draft a NT and not a flashy "playmaker" then the NT gets drafted. No coach worth a **** is going to want to coach this team if he can't have his say on the players. I am not saying that Pioli has to be totally absent in that decision making but he needs to give deferrence to the coach.

New owner, 1st time GM and 1st time head coach is obviously not a good combination. Bring in a good coach. Make a commitment to draft players that are going to solidify this team for the next decade, meaning QB and line players on both sides of the ball. If that means we go back to a 4-3 then sobeit. Unless you are going to cut Dorsey and Jackson going to a 4-3 is probably the best decision. You have 3 stud WR's. Get a QB that can get them the ball and get lineman that can block for him. Again, no coach worth anything is going to want to coach a team where he is continually forced to draft players that don't fit the identity. The "right 53" has to begin with players who can actually play the position they are drafted to play.

Above and beyond all, at this point you have to get a coach with some credibilty. No college come-ups. No former golfers. No retreads with failing records though they have already said they are going to serious look at Romeo. Get a coach that has football experience and has been successful at some point in his career. Romeo would fall into that category as a DC but his time in Cleveland hurts him. Then again I don't think Cleveland has had a good team since Marty left. Get off the Pats\Parcell buddy system.

Hammock Parties · 12-12-2011, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

Anthony Davis was a great ILB in a 3-4. Belcher couldn't hold Davis' jock. Ray Lewis is a great 3-4 ILB. Belcher is nowhere even close.

He's a fine starter. You don't need a Pro Bowler at every position. He's better against the run than Spikes, Timmons and Bishop this year according to PFF.

You can afford to have a guy in your lineup like Belcher if he's surrounded by talent. There are lunchpail players who aren't necessarily great at everything on lots of good defenses.

You are an idiot, Pete. Everyone here keeps telling you that, so please start accepting it. Thanks.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 12-12-2011, 07:29 PM

Here's a question:

How many GMs have failed on their first HC, QB, and a top five pick simultaneously and gone on to do anything of note?

Hammock Parties · 12-12-2011, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

Same with our DE's. The DT's job is to suck up the blocks in the middle and stand there. Not necessarily give a huge push. The push has to come from the DE's. You want the DT standing firm taking away the gap and taking up 2 blockers. We do not have a 3-4 D-line whatsoever. The only guy we have that has played in and is built for a 3-4 on the line is a guy who is so old he can't play every down.

Tyson Jackson is an ideal 3-4 defensive end.

In a 4-3 he would be a backup level player at best. He's incapable of beating an offensive tackle to the outside with speed, so he couldn't play DE. He's too tall and too light to play inside.

Pull your head out of your ass.

Hammock Parties · 12-12-2011, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

Contrary to popular belief, at least as I understand it, the middle pass rush in a 3-4 is primarily going to come from a LB.

No.

The middle pass rush in our 3-4 comes from guys like Allen Bailey and Wallace Gilberry.

We don't even HAVE three defensive linemen on the field in passing situations.

Just stop posting.

**petegz28** · 12-12-2011, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Pete would you say the Ravens and the Steelers are the best 34 defenses in the league?

How many sacks come from their dlinemen?

I am not sure what your trying to get at here?

**petegz28** · 12-12-2011, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega

No.

The middle pass rush in our 3-4 comes from guys like Allen Bailey and Wallace Gilberry.

We don't even HAVE three defensive linemen on the field in passing situations.

Just stop posting.

Really? We don't have 3 D-lineman on 1st and 2nd down? Or are you under this belief that teams never pass on 1st and 2nd down? Or are we not to ever rush the passer on 1st and 2nd down? I fail to follow your logic on this "passing situation" crap.

Nevermind your entire argument is moot sincee as you say, in "passing situations" we are not even in a 3-4 so it's rather irrelevant.

**petegz28** · 12-12-2011, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega

He's a fine starter. You don't need a Pro Bowler at every position. He's better against the run than Spikes, Timmons and Bishop this year according to PFF.

You can afford to have a guy in your lineup like Belcher if he's surrounded by talent. There are lunchpail players who aren't necessarily great at everything on lots of good defenses.

You are an idiot, Pete. Everyone here keeps telling you that, so please start accepting it. Thanks.

how many passing yards have we given up to no-name TE's this year? You ****ing idiot.

O.city · 12-12-2011, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

I am not sure what your trying to get at here?

The top teams in the league running the 34 don't get pressure from thier dlineman. Only on occasion.

**petegz28** · 12-12-2011, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

The top teams in the league running the 34 don't get pressure from thier dlineman. Only on occasion.

Ziggy Hood has 4.5 sacks this year. Tyson Jackson has 1 in what, 3 years?

I agree the base concept is the Dlineman in a 3-4 are to suck up blocks so the LB's can make the plays. Although Omega seems to feel differently.

That being said a good 3-4 Dlineman is going to beat a 1-1 block and pressure the QB even if that means shoving his blocker back into the QB's face.

O.city · 12-12-2011, 07:56 PM

The reason Ziggy hood gets sacks is that he is constantly in 1 on 1 situations. Our de's get double teamed because when we are in base situations, Kelly Gregg is getting his shit pushed in by the center.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 12-12-2011, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega

Tyson Jackson is an ideal 3-4 defensive end.

In a 4-3 he would be a backup level player at best. He's incapable of beating an offensive tackle to the outside with speed, so he couldn't play DE. He's too tall and too light to play inside.

Pull your head out of your ass.

He's not an ideal 3-4 DEs. Even two gap DEs should get a pass rush at times.

aturnis · 12-12-2011, 07:57 PM

Funny article. So far, Todd Haley is the only guy in the organization who has had the balls to step up and shoulder blame...

Hammock Parties · 12-12-2011, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

Really? We don't have 3 D-lineman on 1st and 2nd down?

Not always.

You don't expect your 3-4 ends in this kind of defense to provide much of a pass rush.

Dorsey and Jackson aren't doing it in ANY defensive scheme so switching to a 4-3 is a horrible idea.

**petegz28** · 12-12-2011, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

The reason Ziggy hood gets sacks is that he is constantly in 1 on 1 situations. Our de's get double teamed because when we are in base situations, Kelly Gregg is getting his shit pushed in by the center.

So you think if we just got a NT Jackson and Dorsey would be pressuring the QB more?

aturnis · 12-12-2011, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

The reason Ziggy hood gets sacks is that he is constantly in 1 on 1 situations. Our de's get double teamed because when we are in base situations, Kelly Gregg is getting his shit pushed in by the center.

Our DE's aren't doubled every play. Our NT does command double teams from time to time, also, only one guy gets doubled at a time.

12-12-2011, 06:29 PM
petegz28 Supporter Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Olathe, Ks Casino cash: $-1055873	Admitting Mistakes..key for the Chiefs franchise Everyone makes mistakes. The best players, the best coaches, the best GM's, the best owners. They all make mistakes. But, what makes the best the best is they admit their mistakes, learn from their mistakes and make the necessary corrections. This is a telling time for Clark and Pioli. Will they repeat the same mistakes they have made or will they understand they made some mistakes and learn from them? Typical of new owners and new GM's, they think they know more than anyone else about what they are doing. The recipie for success is rather simple in this league. Owner needs to hire GM and let him do his job and not meddle. GM needs to hire coach and let him do his job and not meddle. What mistakes have Clark and Pioli made? Hindsight being 20/20 it's easy to see but that is how we judge our mistakes by looking back and learning. 1. Hiring Haley. Mistake? Most likley. No personal football experience, hot tempered, couldn't get along with people and ran off 2 OC's in 3 years and Muir would probably have only stuck around for the pension had Haley stayed. 2. Matt Cassel. Mistake? Yes but to be fair an honest one. More than the Chiefs were after Cassel and a lot, not all but a lot of the fan base was ok with bringing him in. Ok, fair enough. We have watched him for 3 years and learned he isn't the one. 3. Draft picks. Mistakes? Yes but all teams make them. Jackson was a mistake simply because we put him at a position he has never played and not really built to play. Dexter? Mistake. Never should have been drafted given the needs of the team. By the same token Pioli has made some good draft picks in Berry, Baldwin, Arenas and Moeaki. 4. Lack of team identity. Mistake? Yes but part of that is on the coaching staff as well as the front office. Pioli dictated we would be a 3-4 team when he came in before any coach was ever hired. That's a mistake. Let the coaches evaluate the talent, choose the best strategy for the talent that is there and the front office should cater to that. To elaborate further though I don't think a clear identity has ever been targeted for this team. One minute we want to be a power running team, the next a dink-dunk. One game we are blitzing like crazy, the next we are a pillow-soft zone. 5. Lack of roster depth. Mistake? Clearly. This falls on Pioli and Haley both. You have 3 QB's with a total experience level starting in the NFL of 2 1/2 years combined. No excuse there at all for any of them. None! No line depth on either side of the ball and no depth at LB. The secondary when healthy is fairly deep. 6. Brian Waters. Mistake? In hindsight, yes. I was not terribly upset that he left but when you let him go and he goes and starts for the NE Pats then you made a mistake. Overall there has been a piss-poor display of leadership on this team from the front office to the coaching staff the defensse being the only exception. A head coach who can't get along with other coaches is a bad seed. Gailey gets ran off. Ok, fair enough. But you do it one week before a season starts? Terrible leadership. Weis gets ran off. Fair enough but now you have gone through 2 OC's in as many years. Not a good track record. Muir has the playcalling taken away from him. Terrible. Muir was a terrible decision in the first place but you gave the guy the job you have to stand by your decisions. When the head coach starts meddling at that level with the coordinators it sends the wrong message to the players. Pioli has his work cut out for him and should be on the hot seat. He needs to bring in a coach who knows WTF he is doing and listen to that coach. If that coach doesn't want Cassel then Cassel is gone. If that coach wants to draft a NT and not a flashy "playmaker" then the NT gets drafted. No coach worth a **** is going to want to coach this team if he can't have his say on the players. I am not saying that Pioli has to be totally absent in that decision making but he needs to give deferrence to the coach. New owner, 1st time GM and 1st time head coach is obviously not a good combination. Bring in a good coach. Make a commitment to draft players that are going to solidify this team for the next decade, meaning QB and line players on both sides of the ball. If that means we go back to a 4-3 then sobeit. Unless you are going to cut Dorsey and Jackson going to a 4-3 is probably the best decision. You have 3 stud WR's. Get a QB that can get them the ball and get lineman that can block for him. Again, no coach worth anything is going to want to coach a team where he is continually forced to draft players that don't fit the identity. The "right 53" has to begin with players who can actually play the position they are drafted to play. Above and beyond all, at this point you have to get a coach with some credibilty. No college come-ups. No former golfers. No retreads with failing records though they have already said they are going to serious look at Romeo. Get a coach that has football experience and has been successful at some point in his career. Romeo would fall into that category as a DC but his time in Cleveland hurts him. Then again I don't think Cleveland has had a good team since Marty left. Get off the Pats\Parcell buddy system.
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12-12-2011, 07:29 PM	#62
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7149572	Here's a question: How many GMs have failed on their first HC, QB, and a top five pick simultaneously and gone on to do anything of note? __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
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12-12-2011, 07:56 PM	#70
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $-685936	The reason Ziggy hood gets sacks is that he is constantly in 1 on 1 situations. Our de's get double teamed because when we are in base situations, Kelly Gregg is getting his shit pushed in by the center.
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12-12-2011, 07:57 PM	#72
aturnis MVP Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Iowa Casino cash: $9975811	Funny article. So far, Todd Haley is the only guy in the organization who has had the balls to step up and shoulder blame...
Posts: 13,873