Cardinals ***Official 2015 STL Cardinals Thread II*** - Page 52

**BigRedChief** · 10:46 PM

2011 World Series Championship
2012 NLCS. One win from another WS appearance.
2013 World Series. Two wins from another World Series Championship
2014 NLCS. Three wins from another WS appearance
2015 Clinched Central Division title and Home Field advantage in the playoffs. First team in MLB to win 100 games since 2011.

Made the postseason 11 times in the last 15 seasons.
Only 1 losing season since 2000.
Reached the World Series 4 times since 2004 and won as many championships (two) the past eight seasons as it did from 1965 to 2005.
Made the NLCS 9 times including the last 4 years 2011-2014
Three million attendance? Take it to the bank.
65 post season wins since 2004. 22+ wins more than any other team.

**BigRedChief** · 07-31-2015, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I just can't talk myself into Grichuk in the top 5 hitters. The guy's OBP is just way too bad to have him setting up the RBI guys. I recognize that the power is insane but he just has WAY too many ABs where he looks completely overmatched up there.

It's the trade off with a high % of hitters with power. Way too may rally killing strike outs. The thing that makes it worse is that Grichuk can look so overmatched at times that you wonder if he eve belong in MLB.

The upside is that if he gets hot in a playoff series, he can carry the whole team.

I understand that Grichuk in not a gold glover out there. He's still our best option. Corner OF would be better but he's definitely a better option than Jay in the line up.

jd1020 · 07-31-2015, 09:54 AM

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 21s21 seconds ago
Source: #STLCards acquire Jonathan Broxton from #Brewers.

Broxton has a 5.89 ERA and a 1.39 WHIP with 1.23 HR/9. So the Cards probably gave up Marco for him.

jd1020 · 07-31-2015, 10:16 AM

Milwaukee Brewers ‏@Brewers 1m1 minute ago
RHP Jonathan Broxton has been traded to St. Louis for minor league OF Malik Collymore, who will be assigned to Rookie @helenabrewers.

DJ's left nut · 07-31-2015, 10:33 AM

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Oh John Mozeliak, you stupid mother****er you.

Just lose your phone you dumb bastard. What the **** are you doing? Yeah, lets go trade one of the best athletes in our system that we paid way over slot to get for a guy that's worse than 2 RHRPs already in the minors for us.

Look, Collymore is a lotto ticket and not terribly likely to hit. But he's also incredibly physically gifted.

You know what? You probably could have taken James Ramsey, Rob Kaminsky and Malik Collymore and gotten yourself a DAMN good player for your efforts. That's the kind of package that generally gets legitimately good returns. A former first round OFer with power potential who's near the majors, a potential top 3 starter with a definite excellent lefty reliever floor in Kaminsky and a straight up lottery ticket.

Mozeliak just keeps burning through assets on non-factors and doesn't seem to recognize that those !@#$ing assets can be used to get an ACTUAL major league player if you look around a bit.

O.city · 07-31-2015, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Oh John Mozeliak, you stupid mother****er you.

Just lose your phone you dumb bastard. What the **** are you doing? Yeah, lets go trade one of the best athletes in our system that we paid way over slot to get for a guy that's worse than 2 RHRPs already in the minors for us.

Look, Collymore is a lotto ticket and not terribly likely to hit. But he's also incredibly physically gifted.

You know what? You probably could have taken James Ramsey, Rob Kaminsky and Malik Collymore and gotten yourself a DAMN good player for your efforts. That's the kind of package that generally gets legitimately good returns. A former first round OFer with power potential who's near the majors, a potential top 3 starter with a definite excellent lefty reliever floor in Kaminsky and a straight up lottery ticket.

Mozeliak just keeps burning through assets on non-factors and doesn't seem to recognize that those !@#$ing assets can be used to get an ACTUAL major league player if you look around a bit.

Apparently it doesn't work like that or so I'm being told on twitter

DJ's left nut · 07-31-2015, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Apparently it doesn't work like that or so I'm being told on twitter

After watching the reaction to the Moss trade on Twitter and at the ballpark yesterday, I'm pretty sure I hate Cardinals fans more than Hootie does right now anyway.

The vast majority of this fanbase really does have its head up its own ass right now.

O.city · 07-31-2015, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

After watching the reaction to the Moss trade on Twitter and at the ballpark yesterday, I'm pretty sure I hate Cardinals fans more than Hootie does right now anyway.

The vast majority of this fanbase really does have its head up its own ass right now.

Yeah I'm not sure why it doesn't work like that

Swanman · 07-31-2015, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Oh John Mozeliak, you stupid mother****er you.

Just lose your phone you dumb bastard. What the **** are you doing? Yeah, lets go trade one of the best athletes in our system that we paid way over slot to get for a guy that's worse than 2 RHRPs already in the minors for us.

Look, Collymore is a lotto ticket and not terribly likely to hit. But he's also incredibly physically gifted.

You know what? You probably could have taken James Ramsey, Rob Kaminsky and Malik Collymore and gotten yourself a DAMN good player for your efforts. That's the kind of package that generally gets legitimately good returns. A former first round OFer with power potential who's near the majors, a potential top 3 starter with a definite excellent lefty reliever floor in Kaminsky and a straight up lottery ticket.

Mozeliak just keeps burning through assets on non-factors and doesn't seem to recognize that those !@#$ing assets can be used to get an ACTUAL major league player if you look around a bit.

If you post on the Birds on the Bat message board, I am pretty damn sure I know who you are over there.

George Liquor · 07-31-2015, 12:38 PM

Steve Cishek, Brandon Moss and Jonathan Broxton are how you get to a World Series..... Said no one ever.

What a pile of shit.

DJ's left nut · 07-31-2015, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swanman

If you post on the Birds on the Bat message board, I am pretty damn sure I know who you are over there.

Indeed I do. It ain't hard to figure it out.

ChiefsCountry · 07-31-2015, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

After watching the reaction to the Moss trade on Twitter and at the ballpark yesterday, I'm pretty sure I hate Cardinals fans more than Hootie does right now anyway.

The vast majority of this fanbase really does have its head up its own ass right now.

BFIB want to give you a standing ovation for this rant

**BigRedChief** · 07-31-2015, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Look, Collymore is a lotto ticket and not terribly likely to hit.

Then why are you so upset? Lottery tickets are not that valuable.

95% of these trades are in favor of the sellers. Its a win now, get that WS trophy this year. You fail like the Brewers did (at our hand) you don't have Cain and Escobar. That outcome will play out with the rest of the teams this year.

I'm not saying these are great trades or even good trades. I'm saying that we need to see the results before trashing the trades. Mo has a track history of winning these trades at a rate better than 5%. There are few Masterson's staining him.

This isn't ancient history either. 2011 Journeyman relievers got us a WS. 2014 Over the hill pitcher has worked out.

DJ's left nut · 07-31-2015, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Then why are you so upset? Lottery tickets are not that valuable.

95% of these trades are in favor of the sellers. Its a win now, get that WS trophy this year. You fail like the Brewers did (at our hand) you don't have Cain and Escobar. That outcome will play out with the rest of the teams this year.

I'm not saying these are great trades or even good trades. I'm saying that we need to see the results before trashing the trades. Mo has a track history of winning these trades at a rate better than 5%. There are few Masterson's staining him.

This isn't ancient history either. 2011 Journeyman relievers got us a WS. 2014 Over the hill pitcher has worked out.

For the same reason you and I will forever disagree about the Rasmus trade.

The Colby Rasmus trade was a shit trade - period. It did not cost Colby Rasmus to get a washed up reliever and a spot starter in Edwin Jackson. We traded Rasmus because LaRussa was tired of dealing with him so we made a bad value trade.

Cardinals fans then wanted to try to argue that it was WHY we won a world series when in fact we won a WS despite that trade. It was an awful trade and the fact that Dotel and Jackson were dumped by the White Sox that morning for the first team that was willing to take on Mark Teahen's salary confirms it. Jackson and Dotel could've been had for salary relief. Meanwhile the Rays offered Alex Cobb for Rasmus and we said no. If the Cards just take on Teahen's contract and then turn Rasmus into Cobb, they still win the 2011 WS AND they have Alex Cobb in the fold who, despite being hurt this year, is a potential CY candidate when he gets healthy.

Maybe Collymore turns into nothing, but Broxton is just another guy that could've been had for salary. Hell, he's a guy that SHOULDN'T be had period - he's a worse pitcher than Tuiavialala and Socolovich but our half-wit manager needs to have a dozen veteran relievers because he does EVERYTHING out of fear. Oh no, what happens if Cruz and Molina both go down; can't pinch hit for Molina because then I won't have a backup. On no, what happens if Peralta gets hurt - can't DFA Kruz's worthless ass because we won't have a SS. Oh no, what happens if the game goes 18 innings...I guess I need a 13 man staff.

Broxton's a bad acquisition if he's free. He wasn't. He cost us a lotto ticket who last year had a season similar to Sierra at the same level as Sierra and people are calling Sierra our next big thing. He's a raw raw kid but that's why you can get that guy in the 10th and try to develop him. Get enough lotto tickets with tools and eventually you get a Matt Carpenter for your trouble.

**BigRedChief** · 07-31-2015, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

For the same reason you and I will forever disagree about the Rasmus trade.

The Colby Rasmus trade was a shit trade - period. It did not cost Colby Rasmus to get a washed up reliever and a spot starter in Edwin Jackson. We traded Rasmus because LaRussa was tired of dealing with him so we made a bad value trade.

Cardinals fans then wanted to try to argue that it was WHY we won a world series when in fact we won a WS despite that trade.

You can't predict what would have happened with your hypothetical trades. It's your opinion what would have happened. There was some serious team chemistry on that 2011 team. One of the main reasons we won the whole thing. No way we will ever know if your hypothetical trades would have produced that same chemistry.

I think if you could search the 2011 Cardinals thread you'd find I was against the trade. I was so pissed off at Larussa lowering his value. Then we had to take middle relievers to get him out of the locker room. That situation pisses me off even today thinking about it.

Without that trade that really happened. We don't win our 11th World Series. We don't get to experience rally squirrel, Happy Flight and get to see our team win the best WS game ever played, game 6. So, yeah even though I thought it was shit at the time, it worked out pretty damn well.

O.city · 07-31-2015, 02:19 PM

Piscotty in the 2 hole. Had thought about that, but I like it.

07-14-2015, 07:36 PM
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $-631038 VARSITY	*Official 2015 STL Cardinals Thread II* 2011 World Series Championship 2012 NLCS. One win from another WS appearance. 2013 World Series. Two wins from another World Series Championship 2014 NLCS. Three wins from another WS appearance 2015 Clinched Central Division title and Home Field advantage in the playoffs. First team in MLB to win 100 games since 2011. Made the postseason 11 times in the last 15 seasons. Only 1 losing season since 2000. Reached the World Series 4 times since 2004 and won as many championships (two) the past eight seasons as it did from 1965 to 2005. Made the NLCS 9 times including the last 4 years 2011-2014 Three million attendance? Take it to the bank. 65 post season wins since 2004. 22+ wins more than any other team. Last edited by BigRedChief; 09-30-2015 at 10:46 PM..
Posts: 81,276

07-31-2015, 09:54 AM	#767
jd1020 In Search of a Life Join Date: Nov 2010 Casino cash: $7042645	Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 21s21 seconds ago Source: #STLCards acquire Jonathan Broxton from #Brewers. Broxton has a 5.89 ERA and a 1.39 WHIP with 1.23 HR/9. So the Cards probably gave up Marco for him. Last edited by jd1020; 07-31-2015 at 10:00 AM..
Posts: 24,502

07-31-2015, 10:16 AM	#768
jd1020 In Search of a Life Join Date: Nov 2010 Casino cash: $7042645	Milwaukee Brewers ‏@Brewers 1m1 minute ago RHP Jonathan Broxton has been traded to St. Louis for minor league OF Malik Collymore, who will be assigned to Rookie @helenabrewers.
Posts: 24,502

07-31-2015, 10:33 AM	#769
DJ's left nut Sauntering Vaguely Downwards Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Columbia, Mo Casino cash: $-700901	BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! Oh John Mozeliak, you stupid mother**er you. Just lose your phone you dumb bastard. What the ** are you doing? Yeah, lets go trade one of the best athletes in our system that we paid way over slot to get for a guy that's worse than 2 RHRPs already in the minors for us. Look, Collymore is a lotto ticket and not terribly likely to hit. But he's also incredibly physically gifted. You know what? You probably could have taken James Ramsey, Rob Kaminsky and Malik Collymore and gotten yourself a DAMN good player for your efforts. That's the kind of package that generally gets legitimately good returns. A former first round OFer with power potential who's near the majors, a potential top 3 starter with a definite excellent lefty reliever floor in Kaminsky and a straight up lottery ticket. Mozeliak just keeps burning through assets on non-factors and doesn't seem to recognize that those !@#$ing assets can be used to get an ACTUAL major league player if you look around a bit. __________________ "If there's a god, he's laughing at us.....and our football team..." "When you look at something through rose colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags."
Posts: 66,778

07-31-2015, 12:38 PM	#774
George Liquor Forklift Certified Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: House of the Rising Sun Casino cash: $-800150	Steve Cishek, Brandon Moss and Jonathan Broxton are how you get to a World Series..... Said no one ever. What a pile of shit. Last edited by George Liquor; 07-31-2015 at 12:45 PM..
Posts: 18,520

07-31-2015, 02:19 PM	#780
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $-585936	Piscotty in the 2 hole. Had thought about that, but I like it.
Posts: 84,165