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Old 07-14-2015, 07:36 PM  
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***Official 2015 STL Cardinals Thread II***
2011 World Series Championship
2012 NLCS. One win from another WS appearance.
2013 World Series. Two wins from another World Series Championship
2014 NLCS. Three wins from another WS appearance
2015 Clinched Central Division title and Home Field advantage in the playoffs. First team in MLB to win 100 games since 2011.

  • Made the postseason 11 times in the last 15 seasons.
  • Only 1 losing season since 2000.
  • Reached the World Series 4 times since 2004 and won as many championships (two) the past eight seasons as it did from 1965 to 2005.
  • Made the NLCS 9 times including the last 4 years 2011-2014
  • Three million attendance? Take it to the bank.
  • 65 post season wins since 2004. 22+ wins more than any other team.
Last edited by BigRedChief; 09-30-2015 at 10:46 PM..
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Old 07-31-2015, 10:26 PM   #796
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Your the one with the faulty logic here. Mulder didn't perform well. To say his performance helped the team makes no sense. Those middle relievers DID perform well and DID help us win a WS.
Yes but because Mulder failed, we grabbed Weaver and Weaver had a nice outing or two in the post-season, so in the end, despite the trade being a disaster, things worked out and all is rosey, right?

Moreover, Edwin Jackson didn't pitch well. He pretty much just stood there and hoped balls got hit at people - he was terrible. Scrabble didn't pitch well either; he walked too many guys, put too many on and despite situational use only, still had an ERA around 4. Again, you're just revising history here - those guys weren't playing that well for us. If ANY trade truly made a difference it was giving Castallanos for Furcal. The Rasmus trade was far FAR less impactful than the Furcal trade and Furcal cost a hell of a lot less than Colby Rasmus.

Again, we didn't have to give up Colby Rasmus to get those relievers. It's your position that somehow, I guess, moving Colby Rasmus for Alex Cobb would have hypothetically hurt the clubhouse or something. Or that simply taking on Teahen's deal to bring in that talent is just a wild hypothetical that we can't contemplate (why, I don't know...again, it happened mere hours before we gave up actual talent to get the same trash).

The guys we got had next to NO trade value at all. Trading Rasmus for them was still a terrible trade, just as trading anything at all for Broxton and paying $3 million for him for the rest of the year.

The Colby Rasmus trade was not a feather in anyone's cap. It is not proof or vindication for anything Mozeliak did.
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Old 07-31-2015, 10:36 PM   #797
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Yes but because Mulder failed, we grabbed Weaver and Weaver had a nice outing or two in the post-season, so in the end, despite the trade being a disaster, things worked out and all is rosey, right?.
The Weaver trade had nothing to do with Mulder trade.
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Moreover, Edwin Jackson didn't pitch well. He pretty much just stood there and hoped balls got hit at people - he was terrible.
I've mentioned the middle relievers performance as helping us win the WS, not Jackson.
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Old 07-31-2015, 10:57 PM   #798
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The Weaver trade had nothing to do with Mulder trade.
Didn't it? If Haren's here, Weaver's not needed and the Weaver deal isn't made. If we're to just presume that any hypothetical proposed would have just blown up in our faces, then hypothetically Haren could have cratered and Weaver being on the roster instead of him was instrumental to our championship.

Quote:
I've mentioned the middle relievers performance as helping us win the WS, not Jackson.
Wait...so now giving up Colby Rasmus for lefthanded reliever is what you're hanging your hat on? Because Dotel was part of the same Chisox salary dump - he was another guy that was free to anybody that wanted him.

Rasmus for Scrabble is a win in your book because of 8 post-season innings pitched with an ERA in the mid 4's and a barely above 0 win probability added? A relievers WPA is huge because of how context specific their use is. Scrabble's biggest contribution in terms of WPA BY FAR was when he came in and gave up the single and the double that scored the two inherited runners (from Dotel, I might add) that cost us game 5.

The value placed on their contributions has just been wildly overstated by people as time has gone by and the cost surrendered to acquire them was entirely out of whack.
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Old 08-01-2015, 06:31 AM   #799
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The value placed on their contributions has just been wildly overstated by people as time has gone by and the cost surrendered to acquire them was entirely out of whack.
Thats your opinion. Most Cardinal fans think that we don't win the WS in 2011 without that trade for those relievers.

We will just have to agree to disagree on this piece of history.

Now, having Kozma, Cruz and Choate on this team is an embarrassment. Mathenys bullpen management is for shit, his wanting to use "veterans" instead of being based on performance we are on the same page.
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Old 08-02-2015, 12:16 PM   #800
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Are we trotting out the Kozma/Cruz line up today? If so, I'm just gonna chalk up an L and do something else with my afternoon.

(I don't understand why my autocorrect changes properly spelled words to other words)
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Old 08-02-2015, 12:23 PM   #801
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Are we trotting out the Kozma/Cruz line up today? If so, I'm just gonna chalk up an L and do something else with my afternoon.

(I don't understand why my autocorrect changes properly spelled words to other words)
Surprisingly it's a real lineup today. But with Jaime pitching, don't expect more than one run anyway.
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Old 08-02-2015, 12:33 PM   #802
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There is one thing in common for all prospects traded on this list except for Moss.

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Old 08-02-2015, 12:45 PM   #803
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Trading Rasmus for them was still a terrible trade, just as trading anything at all for Broxton and paying $3 million for him for the rest of the year.
Except Collymore is nowhere near the same caliber of player that Rasmus is. He's athletic as hell, but moving from 2B to OF makes him lose some of his value.
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Old 08-02-2015, 01:27 PM   #804
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Old 08-02-2015, 01:38 PM   #805
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Old 08-02-2015, 01:47 PM   #806
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Old 08-02-2015, 01:52 PM   #807
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Old 08-02-2015, 02:00 PM   #808
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Old 08-02-2015, 02:04 PM   #809
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I don't like cishek. Maybe it's just me

Choate is warming up
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Old 08-02-2015, 02:05 PM   #810
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