Charger Fans are not afraid of the Chiefs.

[sd4chiefs]

This should be fun. Check it out.

http://forum.signonsandiego.com/uplo...threadid=44636

[milkman]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj

Bolt,

I hate to tell you, but last year was as good as it's going to get. I'm a Marty fan. He's great at building teams. In fact, I was rooting for the Chargers in the playoffs. I actually thought Marty had changed his ways and would not go into his little conservative playoff cocoon. I thought he had learned from his past mistakes in KC and Cleveland. Nope; I was wrong. You guys got in LONG FG range and he got conservative and choked again. A tiger can't change his stripes. Welcome to a world of regular season success and post-season failure.

Let me add to this.
If Merriman and Castillo prove to be the real deal, then the more comfortable he becomes with that D, the more he'll rely on it to win games, and go into ultra-conservative mode in the regular season, especially those that have playoff implications.

He'll win a lot of those games, because he won't always be playing playopff caliber teams.
But the fact is, while Marty is there, you can expect to win a lot of games, but you can never hope to reach the upper echelon of the NFL.

For you guys, the promised land will always only be a set of balls away.

[Boltergeist]

Originally Posted by SideWinder

Let me add to this.
If Merriman and Castillo prove to be the real deal, then the more comfortable he becomes with that D, the more he'll rely on it to win games, and go into ultra-conservative mode in the regular season, especially those that have playoff implications.

He'll win a lot of those games, because he won't always be playing playopff caliber teams.
But the fact is, while Marty is there, you can expect to win a lot of games, but you can never hope to reach the upper echelon of the NFL.

For you guys, the promised land will always only be a set of balls away.

I can't argue with any of that. I've seen it first hand for 3 years now and was at the playoff game last year to pull my hair out at the latest Marty conservative retreat. As a fan, I can only hope this is the year Marty tries something different in the big games....He has taken baby steps over the last couple of years to loosen up. Hopefully he just realizes he doesn't have much time left.

[Chief Faithful]

Originally Posted by Boltergeist

Also, I don't think you can lump Gates in with our other receivers as being only "respectable" unless you say the same about Gonzales. Gates was money all season and in our playoff game. For good measure, he also made plays in the pro-bowl. He also converted more 3rd downs than any player in the league last year. Anyway, I won't get too many people on here agreeing with me on Gates / Gonzo comparisons.

There is no denying the great season Gates had, but it is premature to start the Gates / Gonzo comparisons. First, Gonzo has become very good in the blocking schemes so there is no weakness in his game. Second, Gonzo gets more attention from defenses than any other TE in the league. In the red zone his is always triple teamed. Gates has yet to experience that type of attention.

Gates was a surprise to everyone last year. Now that there is plenty of tape on Brees and Gates it will be interesting to see if Gates has equal success. There is no doubt he will get more attention and defenses will adjust.

[Abba-Dabba]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

We could go all day, but I'd rather end it now.

Vermeil is one of a handful of coaches to take 2 teams to a Super Bowl.

If Marty keeps winning regular season games, he'll be the winningest coach in HISTORY never to play in a Super Bowl.

Enough said.

Not quite.

Out of the 4 coaches who have taken 2 different teams to the SuperBowl, Vermeil is 110-103 with a 6-5 playoff record. Hardly what you would think a great coach record should be, just barely over .500, right? For an example I will use the other 3 coaches records. Parcells is 154-116-1 with a 11-7 playoff record, Shula is 328-156-6 with a 19-17 playoff record and Dan Reeves is 190-165-2 with a 11-9 playoff record. Out all all those coaches Vermeil is lowest of those during the regular season and the palyoffs, Vermeil has a winning regular season record about 40% of the time, 60% of the seasons he has coached have been losing seasons. Damn Reeves has had a winning record in over 50% of his regular seasons, 12 out of 23. Parcells, has had winning records in 11 out of 17 regular seasons. Shula is in whole another world compared to those others. He had 27 winning seasons out of 33.

So while saying Vermeil has taken 2 different teams to the SB is factually correct and shiny as hell to say, it hardly paints the complete picture of his entire coaching career. I'm not going to sit here and sugar coat the facts. Vermeil is a great coach, no doubt. I said that earlier, but, Marty as well is a great coach too.

FTR Marty is 177-117-1 with a 5-12 playoff record.

[Abba-Dabba]

Originally Posted by alanm

It took Tom Osborne 21 yrs. also.

I never knew that. Thanks for that nugget of info.

[Boltergeist]

Originally Posted by Chief Faithful

There is no denying the great season Gates had, but it is premature to start the Gates / Gonzo comparisons. First, Gonzo has become very good in the blocking schemes so there is no weakness in his game. Second, Gonzo gets more attention from defenses than any other TE in the league. In the red zone his is always triple teamed. Gates has yet to experience that type of attention.

Gates was a surprise to everyone last year. Now that there is plenty of tape on Brees and Gates it will be interesting to see if Gates has equal success. There is no doubt he will get more attention and defenses will adjust.

Teams were well aware of Gates by midseason last year and were definitely game planning for him. The Chiefs, in fact, were one of the teams that tried to triple team him at Arrowhead (to no success) so he's already getting the same treatment. He's a little bigger than Gonzo and is just a fantastic athlete with great leaping ability and hands. You're right that he's no secret, but the secret was out in week 6 last year when he was catching touchdowns at a record setting rate. Gates doesn't really have any weakness in his game either as he is also a pretty good blocker....He's just lacks the experience. Not that it mattered, but Gates also smoked Gonzo in the hands competition at the pro-bowl and beat him in a televised game of horse for good measure. Like it or not, the comparisons are going to continue...especially now that Gates holds the NFL record for TD's by a TE in one season.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by Boltergeist

Teams were well aware of Gates by midseason last year and were definitely game planning for him. The Chiefs, in fact, were one of the teams that tried to triple team him at Arrowhead (to no success) so he's already getting the same treatment. He's a little bigger than Gonzo and is just a fantastic athlete with great leaping ability and hands. You're right that he's no secret, but the secret was out in week 6 last year when he was catching touchdowns at a record setting rate. Gates doesn't really have any weakness in his game either as he is also a pretty good blocker....He's just lacks the experience. Not that it mattered, but Gates also smoked Gonzo in the hands competition at the pro-bowl and beat him in a televised game of horse for good measure. Like it or not, the comparisons are going to continue...especially now that Gates holds the NFL record for TD's by a TE in one season.

All that is great. Now let's see if Gates can keep it up for a few more years like Tony G has been doing.

[Iowanian]

..and if Bolt fans like it or not.....Gonzo has crushed and owns the single season Receptions record by a TE with over 100. He did this, on the team that alot of Bolt fans claim has an "average" qb, a "nothing special RB" and common WRs....after putting up Big numbers for multiple seasons.

This season will tell us alot more about Gates than Last.

[cool_brees]

As with most football message boards (or any internet message board for that matter) the majority of the people on there are ignorant, not well informed. Usually there are a few solid posters who can provide good information and insight. I'm a big Charger fan and I can't stand going to that signonsandiego forum that was posted on here. It's pretty much a wasteland of flapping gums. As I mentioned however, it's the case with almost any message board.

Anyway, with that out of the way, I'm just responding to all the statements of being a 'flash in the pan' or that they'll revert back to thier usual form, etc.

The accomplishment that the Chargers achieved shouldn't really come as a large suprise to the knowledgeable football fan. If you look at what the organization has done in the past couple of years you can see why.

1) Replacing GM Bobby Bethard. This man did take us to the Superbowl in '94 but singlehandedly crippled the organization for the next decade with his braindead draft picks. How many 1st round draft picks have the Chargers had since the Superbowl while he was in command? Two, and one was the great Ryan Leaf. The man drafted unknown players from small schools on a regular basis, while trading away all his number one draft picks year after year. This is NOT the way to build a football team.

Since the departure of Bethard, We've had solid to excellent draft picks and the results are finally showing.

2) Bringing in quality coaching. Marty Schottenheimer is a quality coach. I know he's not well liked here because of his playoff failures but the man can get you to the post season. I feared the week the Chargers played the Chiefs when Marty was coaching there. His teams are not flashy and sometimes boring but they play smart and puts his teams in position to win games. The coaches we had in the 90's after Bobby Ross were abysmal. I guess you could argue they really didn't have anything to work with but those guys wound up never achieving success anywhere.

Wade Phillips was brought in last year and instantly turned around the defense. I thought the talent was there but was being handcuffed by our previous defense coordinator, Dale Lindsay. Everyone knew Lindsay was over his head in the first year but he was given a second year to improve. Part of the blame for this has to rest on Marty however.

Being in the first year of learning the 3-4, the schemes had to be kept pretty simple. The poor pass rush didn't help either. If the pass rush improves like it should, combined with the year experience under the belt, I see the defense turning it up a couple of notches this year.

I'll add a 3) Upgrading the talent. This however is a direct result of reason 1 above.

That's really it. It's not very complicated. While you do have to have playmakers on your team (Tomlinson/Gates, Holmes/Gonzales, etc.) followed by a solid roster, it all starts with the front office.

I see the Chiefs and Chargers challenging each other for the division title this year. I'm not sure how improved the Chief defense will be but it looks on paper to definitely be better than recent years. I see their offense to be solid as usual. Should be a solid team this year.

Oakland blew everything on their offensive toys. I'm not even so sure that their offense will be that great with the potential time bombs they have with some players over there. That's probably unlikely however and they should have a solid offense. Their defense is another story however. I can see that defense being as bad as last year or even worse. A big factor will be if they switch back to a 4-3, which should help a lot due to their personnel.

The Broncos... horrilbe draft IMO. Horrible FA moves singing the Cleveland DL rejects. I don't see Plummer stopping his boneheaded mistakes. Their D should be pretty solid. I think Shannahan is a good coach but something always bothers me about coaches with too much power. I think they need to start fresh with a new coach and an upgrade to their QB and they may be able to take it to the next level. It's funny to say that about a team that is consistently pretty good and has been making the playoffs but yet never shows sings of improvement. Anyway, I say they finish ahead of Oakland. They may even contend for a wild-card again.

Anyway, my apologies for the novel. It just irks me sometimes when I hear ignorant statements like "one hit wonder" or "they'll go back to the old Chargers" when that's really an uninformed opinion. With that said, the offseason is still early and who knows what will happen so these predicitons for this year. But it should be a great year. I can't wait for the games to begin! (Back to lurking... I occasionally lurk under a different handle but it wouldn't let me post for some reason.)

[C-Mac]

Originally Posted by cool_brees

As with most football message boards (or any internet message board for that matter) the majority of the people on there are ignorant, not well informed. Usually there are a few solid posters who can provide good information and insight. I'm a big Charger fan and I can't stand going to that signonsandiego forum that was posted on here. It's pretty much a wasteland of flapping gums. As I mentioned however, it's the case with almost any message board.


Anyway, my apologies for the novel. It just irks me sometimes when I hear ignorant statements like "one hit wonder" or "they'll go back to the old Chargers" when that's really an uninformed opinion. With that said, the offseason is still early and who knows what will happen so these predicitons for this year. But it should be a great year. I can't wait for the games to begin! (Back to lurking... I occasionally lurk under a different handle but it wouldn't let me post for some reason.)

Nice job well said.
I agree that the Chiefs and Chargers should be the top 2 contenders, but I have give the edge to the Chiefs. Its going to be hard for SD to duplicate what they did last year, but there's no doubt that they certainly have the tools to stay contenders for a for a while.

[Rukdafaidas]

Originally Posted by Boltergeist

Teams were well aware of Gates by midseason last year and were definitely game planning for him. The Chiefs, in fact, were one of the teams that tried to triple team him at Arrowhead (to no success) so he's already getting the same treatment. He's a little bigger than Gonzo and is just a fantastic athlete with great leaping ability and hands. You're right that he's no secret, but the secret was out in week 6 last year when he was catching touchdowns at a record setting rate. Gates doesn't really have any weakness in his game either as he is also a pretty good blocker....He's just lacks the experience. Not that it mattered, but Gates also smoked Gonzo in the hands competition at the pro-bowl and beat him in a televised game of horse for good measure. Like it or not, the comparisons are going to continue...especially now that Gates holds the NFL record for TD's by a TE in one season.

I think Gates will be a great TE for many years in SD. But I also agree with the others that are saying to wait a few years before comparing him to Gonzo. We went through this same thing with the Shockey/Gonzo comparisons a couple of years ago.

[Lzen]

Originally Posted by Bwana

It just kills me that after one decent season in like 20 years, they think they are bullet proof. It will be fun kicking their butts again this year.

Umm, they did appear in the Superbowl like 10-11 years ago.


And frankly, I don't have much doubt that Marty will field a decent team. I would guess they might go anywhere from 8-8 to 10-6. But make no mistake, Marty is still a very good regular season coach. It's when they get to the playoffs where they're gonna suck. That is, if they make the playoffs.

[Bob Dole]

Bob Dole is going to say it again.

Rich Scanlon is going to have a full NFLE season under his belt, so Sandy Eggo doesn't stand a chance against our defense this year.

Rich Scanlon = Sweep!

[Chief Faithful]

Originally Posted by Boltergeist

Teams were well aware of Gates by midseason last year and were definitely game planning for him. The Chiefs, in fact, were one of the teams that tried to triple team him at Arrowhead (to no success) so he's already getting the same treatment. He's a little bigger than Gonzo and is just a fantastic athlete with great leaping ability and hands. You're right that he's no secret, but the secret was out in week 6 last year when he was catching touchdowns at a record setting rate. Gates doesn't really have any weakness in his game either as he is also a pretty good blocker....He's just lacks the experience. Not that it mattered, but Gates also smoked Gonzo in the hands competition at the pro-bowl and beat him in a televised game of horse for good measure. Like it or not, the comparisons are going to continue...especially now that Gates holds the NFL record for TD's by a TE in one season.

Its no secret that coordinators spend the off-season to analyze players and teams that had great years not during the season. Gates is going to see defensive schemes designed to stop him in ways he has never seen before. He may have received more attention as the season progressed, but it takes the off-season before coordinators really focus on new schemes. This year will tell us more about Gates then the last.

Defenses have gotten very creative with Gonzo, but it didn't happen his first few years even with the success. The games I saw with Gates I never saw the same kind of attention that Gonzo gets.

[The Bad Guy]

Originally Posted by cool_brees

Anyway, my apologies for the novel. It just irks me sometimes when I hear ignorant statements like "one hit wonder" or "they'll go back to the old Chargers" when that's really an uninformed opinion. With that said, the offseason is still early and who knows what will happen so these predicitons for this year. But it should be a great year. I can't wait for the games to begin! (Back to lurking... I occasionally lurk under a different handle but it wouldn't let me post for some reason.)

Well, I'm an informed fan and if you are as big of a history buff as your post indicates, you would check out what Marty has done following a playoff appearance.

His first 6 years, he made the playoffs here.

After that 1995, 13-3 team, he went 9-7 the next year and didn't make the playoffs.

In 1997, he also went 13-3, and went 7-9 last year and didn't make the playoffs.

Getting you into the playoffs doesn't mean much when the guy has been one and done in his last FOUR playoff appearances.

Wade Phillips also made a big impact on the Falcons defense when he arrived back in 2002 and then in 2003 he finished dead last in the league.

I just read the Chargers bio on him and it's a joke that they give the excuse that he lost these guys - Juran Bolden and Tod McBride, and Sam Rogers and Will Overstreet - and basically attributed that to why they were so bad.

Not one of those guys are starters in the NFL. As a matter of fact, I think 3 of 4 are out of the league.

Anyway, you don't get respect in this league coming out of nowhere unless you can do it for 2 straight years. You have no idea how Brees will play. I have a hard time believing he goes from dud to stud overnight and will maintain his consistent play.

You had a TON of variables go your way last year. A lot of it was talent, a lot was luck. I'm still of the opinion that your defense is average at best. Your corners aren't anything special, your safeties are junk and your linebackers overachieved tremendously last year.

I do think that you will have a decent team, but I also think that it's not out of the question that you could finish 6-10 either.

Saying someone isn't an "informed fan" because they think your team won't be anything special is a BIG reach.