Tony Gonzalez opens up on Herm with both barrels

[Hammock Parties]

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chi...ry/387172.html

Chiefs can’t come back against Chargers
By ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star

The Chiefs lost their ability to make enough plays to win close games some time ago. They ran out of explanations shortly afterward.

Now they’re just plain out of gas. They trailed by a mere touchdown for most of the second half of Sunday’s game against San Diego at Arrowhead Stadium, but they might have played until midnight without getting that elusive tying score.

So they wound up losing 24-10, and the defeat pushed the 4-8 Chiefs to the brink of extinction in what passes for a race in the AFC West. They’re officially done if they lose to the Broncos in Denver next week.

The Chiefs tried their usual formula — keep things close until the fourth quarter and make the plays to win it then. It worked for them earlier in the season but again failed on Sunday when they were shut out in the final quarter for the fourth straight game.

“I’m tired of it and don’t want to play this style of football,” Chiefs tight end Tony Gonzalez said. “It’s not what I’m into. I don’t think Herm (Edwards) wants to. We want to win. Let’s get it over with. I don’t want to keep the game close until the second half because we’re a second-half team. That’s bull. Let’s just go out there and win a football game.

“Let’s get rid of that stress. I’m tired of it. I’m sitting on the sideline thinking, ‘Here we go again.’ You can’t help but let those thoughts creep into your mind.”

That crisis of confidence was evident Sunday. Their seven-point deficit for most of the second half felt to them like a lot more.

Things got so bad for the offense that its only touchdown was scored by defensive end Jared Allen, who played on the goal-line ostensibly for blocking purposes. And Allen had to make a great catch of Damon Huard’s fade pass to do it.

“When you’re desperate,” Edwards said, “you do desperate things.”

Edwards hasn’t been desperate enough to change his philosophy on how to win. He defended it again Sunday, saying it’s the only way the Chiefs have a chance.

“We made plays (to win some early-season games),” Edwards said, referring to wins over Minnesota, San Diego and Oakland, all games the Chiefs salvaged in the fourth quarter. “That’s how we won.

“We have to play a certain way. We try to do that to protect the quarterback and make sure we can throw the ball. You have all of these fancy ideas there at the end and there are certain things we’re stuck with because of how we have to play.

“That’s OK. You can still win games that way. We just can’t get behind like that because that just puts you in a bad, bad way.”

The burden of keeping the game close fell to the defense, which again caved in. LaDainian Tomlinson rushed for 117 yards and two touchdowns in the second half.

“We know they’re going to make plays, realistically,” Allen said. “But to (heck) with that. Our mind-set has to be that they won’t make any plays. When stuff like that becomes acceptable, and all of a sudden you find yourself saying, ‘Oh, here we go again,’ that’s when the same (stuff) happens. That’s what’s been happening.

“We need to change the mind-set around here. The mind-set has got to be that this is not acceptable to lose at home. It’s not acceptable to be 10-10 at halftime and lose 24-10.”

The marvel regarding the Chiefs is not the five-game losing streak, their longest since 2000, or the five Arrowhead losses, most since they also lost five in 2001.

It’s that with this team — even with its numerous and obvious flaws — they won four of five games earlier in the season.

“Even then, we had some issues,” guard Brian Waters said. “When you look at games like Chicago and Houston, we had a couple of opportunities to come back in those games as well.

“We’ve started slowly in some parts of the season and now we’re not finishing the way we were. Really, we’re just trying to find a complete game.”

[Zouk]

Originally Posted by GOATSE

Yes, that happened. But not all the time.

When Sippio is in the game, they run. 100 percent of the time. He plays wide receiver, but Herm has created a new position for him: Wide Blocker!

He is the lone wideout in 1 of the goal line packages they played on 1 snap today. You run out of goal line packages the vast majority of the time. How many snaps did he get on offense today? 2? 3?

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by Zouk

No question that thinking Welbourn and Terry/Turley were okay enough to get through the season as the starting right side was a monumental blunder. There should have been better players there. But it's hard to turn over every position in a single offseason. It'll be dealt with this offseason.

And you trust Carl and Herm to actually fix this?

[cdcox]

Originally Posted by Zouk

This team today was starting 3 offensive linemen, 1 blocking tight end, and 1 starting receiver who will be out of football next year. They are no longer NFL caliber.

You can add two corners who, when they are another year older, won't be NFL starting caliber either. I don't think we'll be able to effectively replace 7 starters in one off season.

Not to mention: ? at QB, an aging Donnie Edwards, and a 4th OL, starting DT, MLB and two starting S that are all marginal.

Yes, Herm inherited a mess, but his negative attitude on offense, failure to bring in at least marginal talent to the OL, and over-use of LJ last year have made things a whole lot worse than they had to be. He's on the brink of losing the team this year. I think next year will be worse.

[Silock]

Originally Posted by Cochise

What was done today that was so bad?

Was it throwing the ball to a defensive end? Was that too conservative?

Was it the multiple trick plays we called?

Going for it on fourth down after what happened last week and giving it to the kid again? That tells Kolby Smith you believe in him.

Was it Huard throwing the ball 35 times (tied for the most attempts he's ever had in a game in his career) We had 40 attempts total today, and if you add in the 8 sacks we called almost 50 pass plays to ~20 or so running plays. Was that was too conservative?

Or was it the fact that we can't block anyone, that we are playing with a stopgap QB and about 4 stopgap players on the line?

Stop that. Logic will get you nowhere.

[Reerun_KC]

Originally Posted by Zouk

No question that thinking Welbourn and Terry/Turley were okay enough to get through the season as the starting right side was a monumental blunder. There should have been better players there. But it's hard to turn over every position in a single offseason. It'll be dealt with this offseason.

True and one would hope....

What gets me, is if Carl is such a great GM, letting Roaf and Shields get old with zero replacements, isnt very good player management...

[Silock]

Originally Posted by cdcox

It is really self-fulfilling prophesy. Herm wants to win games in the fourth quarter, so he plays the whole game in order to make that happen. The offense just keeps getting worse and worse as he scales things back more and more. He breeds self-doubt in the offense.

We can't run. We can't throw. We can't execute trick plays. Is it Herm's "style of offense," or is it the players not being able to execute? I'll leave it to you to decide, but I know where your bias is and what you're going to conclude, anyway.

[Zouk]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

And you trust Carl and Herm to actually fix this?

I do trust Herm, although the criticism that he undervalues O-line is a fair one based on the Jets history. The team needs to be good next year or Herm will definitely be gone. And there's no way the team will be good without a much much better O-line. We'll see.

I don't trust Carl and choose to pretend he's not really there. It helps me stay optimistic.

[Pablo]

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

So you are saying Mangini is an offensive genius? I dont think I would go that far.. But if you say so...

I agree with your last statement, just sad that Carl and Herm didnt have the foresight to see that 5 30 year old linemen isnt really the way to go right now... Its a pity....

No..he's the protege of an offensive genius..and should probably be more competent in that department than Herm is, but he's not.

Why? Talent. The Jets don't have it, and we sure as hell don't.

Herm was left with this sh*t when he got here. Roaf bailed. Shields bailed. Herm brought in McIntosh..mistake, playing the wrong position, but still a mistake, and they drafted Niswanger and hauled in Terry. I think the only mistake Herm really made was trusting this line to pull through and be average, so our younger guy could get some experience on a decent line. But they couldn't.

[Pablo]

Originally Posted by cdcox

Yes, Herm inherited a mess, but his negative attitude on offense, failure to bring in at least marginal talent to the OL, and over-use of LJ last year have made things a whole lot worse than they had to be. He's on the brink of losing the team this year. I think next year will be worse.

C'mon. He had two seasons to replace just about the greatest O-Line ever assembled. And who the hell else was gonna get the ball last year? Huard to Parker? Huard to Kennison? Huard to Webb?

Tony was our only viable weapon, and LJ had to run, and he wanted to, it was a contract year. He may have been over-used, but last year would have been a 5-11 type year if we hadn't run LJ as much, and CP would have imploded long ago.

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by Silock

We can't run. We can't throw. We can't execute trick plays. Is it Herm's "style of offense," or is it the players not being able to execute? I'll leave it to you to decide, but I know where your bias is and what you're going to conclude, anyway.

I think it is a combination of Herm's style, players not executing and definite lack of talent on the O-Line.

2 are fixable 1 (Herm's style) is not.

[tk13]

Originally Posted by GOATSE

What? No, it does matter. When Sippio is on the field, the only thing we called today were running plays. That's horrible.

When did the Vermeil Chiefs do that? I can't recall to be honest with you. What player?




Oh yeah, he's out there all the time. He loves to block, man! Herm's got him a blocking WR! WOO!

Chris Horn.

[philfree]

The fact is we can't block water from running up hill and the NFL these days is set up for offenses to rule. So with no blockers we are a bad football team. I don't see Gonzo as wrong and I don't see Herm wrong either(as far as game straegy is conserned). Herm blew it with our kickers and he blew it with our O line evaluation. That's on him and that's why we can't win. The loses are on him.(period)....

PhilFree

[Pablo]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

I think it is a combination of Herm's style, players not executing and definite lack of talent on the O-Line.

2 are fixable 1 (Herm's style) is not.

Players not executing is just sad. How many times this year have you seen recievers drop dead-on passes? A ton.

Kennison's old ass dropped one in the endzone for crying out loud. It's just pathetic. You can't expect much when Huard is taking the snaps and our line are 6-foot tall 300 lb. marshmallows.

I think Herm is trying to be less conservative just to show it doesn't work still. Don't get me wrong, I think he wants to win, but I'm sure he notices the outcries from players and fans alike, and tried to mix it up the past couple of weeks. And it failed miserably both times. You all asked for it, here it is. It's just as good as being conservative.

We don't possess the talent, toughness, or execution on the offensive side of the ball to put up more than 2 touchdowns a game.

[Zouk]

Originally Posted by cdcox

You can add two corners who, when they are another year older, won't be NFL starting caliber either. I don't think we'll be able to effectively replace 7 starters in one off season.

Not to mention: ? at QB, an aging Donnie Edwards, and a 4th OL, starting DT, MLB and two starting S that are all marginal.

Yes, Herm inherited a mess, but his negative attitude on offense, failure to bring in at least marginal talent to the OL, and over-use of LJ last year have made things a whole lot worse than they had to be. He's on the brink of losing the team this year. I think next year will be worse.

0% chance Ty Law is a Chief next year. I would like to cut Surtain as well. I actually think Benny Sapp can play one corner spot, although I know others disagree. We'll bring in a mid-level free agent and draft a guy on day 1.

The over-use of LJ argument is silly, in my opinion. LT had more touches last year if playoffs are included, I believe. And his injury was a blunt force injury and not a repetitive stress injury. The over-use was a result of Michael Bennett getting hurt and there being no one else on the roster who could carry the ball. As you said, Herm inherited a mess. He got Dee Brown who fumbled something like 2 of the 5 carries he was given.

As far as Herm losing the team, I see no evidence for this whatsoever. Losing in an NFL clubhouse is never easy, but I've seen no quotes - even anonymous ones - from players bashing Herm. Do you have information that I don't?

[Agent V]

Originally Posted by GonzoRox88

Players not executing is just sad. How many times this year have you seen recievers drop dead-on passes? A ton.

Kennison's old ass dropped one in the endzone for crying out loud. It's just pathetic. You can't expect much when Huard is taking the snaps and our line are 6-foot tall 300 lb. marshmallows.

I think Herm is trying to be less conservative just to show it doesn't work still. Don't get me wrong, I think he wants to win, but I'm sure he notices the outcries from players and fans alike, and tried to mix it up the past couple of weeks. And it failed miserably both times. You all asked for it, here it is. It's just as good as being conservative.

We don't possess the talent, toughness, or execution on the offensive side of the ball to put up more than 2 touchdowns a game.

You're absolutely right. This is as much a personnel issue as it is a coaching issue. The combined efforts of Solari and this mediocre offense (and awful offensive line) are what's killing this team. That's why I place more blame on Carl Peterson and his poor personnel decisions. There was NO reason to promote Solari to offensive coordinator and there was NO reason to attempt to rebuild the offensive line with players like Turley. Furthermore, I do not think Herman Edward's blaring mediocrity with the Jets warranted him a job here in Kansas City.

In short, I place more blame on Carl Peterson for the spot we are in now.