Chiefs Get of Mark Castle's back! - Page 6

**pr_capone** · 11-10-2009, 01:08 AM

First and foremost... I am no Cassel apologist but I am tired of reading posts just bashing Matt left and right.

Here are the numbers. And before I get started... **** all this "garbage time" bullshit. EVERY QB in the league has garbage time stats so let's not get too wrapped up in that. It's not like teams have replaced all their starters with 2nd and 3rd stringers at the end of games on us.

This is a statistical comparison of current QB's 2nd season as full time starters. Cassel, Ryan, & Flacco's stats are projected numbers of 16 games played in a season.

Pay special attention to the TD, INT, and Sack numbers.

Completions
Cassel - 286
Ryan - 312
Flacco - 366
Brady - 373
McNabb - 285
Rivers - 277

Attempts
Cassel - 514
Ryan - 514
Flacco - 564
Brady - 601
McNabb - 493
Rivers - 460

Completion Percentage
Cassel - 55.6
Ryan - 60.9
Flacco - 64.9
Brady - 62.1
McNabb - 57.8
Rivers - 60.2

Yards
Cassel - 2871
Ryan - 3568
Flacco - 4088
Brady - 3764
McNabb - 3233
Rivers - 3152

TDs
Cassel - 23
Ryan - 26
Flacco - 24
Brady - 23
McNabb - 25
Rivers - 21

INTs
Cassel - 11
Ryan - 20
Flacco - 14
Brady - 14
McNabb - 12
Rivers - 15

Sacks
Cassel - 62
Ryan - 24
Flacco - 32
Brady - 31
McNabb - 39
Rivers - 22

What I get out of the stats.

While Cassel could certainly stand to improve his completion percentage and total yardage, he is doing a damn fine job of producing in this ****tarded offense. His completion and total yardage stats have been killed due to the fact that the man has zero time to set up and find an open receiver as shown by the sack numbers. I would love to know the number of times each QB was hurried and forced to run but if the sack numbers are any indication, Cassel would nearly double the amount of any of the QB's listed in this comparison. His mobility has likely saved him from another dozen or so sacks at the halfway mark.

People dog Cassel for being unable to throw the deep ball. Hopefully that argument was squelched a bit after the long pass to Chambers today whom he hit in stride for a TD. It is amazing what a competent QB can do when he has a bit of time and a receiver with reliable hands & a touch of speed.

Lastly, and probably of most importance for a team like the Chiefs who are in transition on both sides of the ball, Cassel takes care of the damn ball while still throwing TD's. Cassel is on pace to throw fewer interceptions than any of the QB's listed in the comparison despite his o-line's inability to keep him on his feet. In fact, he has thrown interceptions in only 2 of his 7 games played so far this season. Oh yeah... and though he has been sacked more than any of the QB's listed he has yet to lose a fumble.

I don't know what more you want from the guy.

It's not his fault 3/5 of his offensive line would not start on ANY other team in the NFL.

Its not his fault that his coach is calling a limp dick game offensively.

Its not his fault that his featured RB averaged a whopping 2.7 yards per carry with 0 TDs prior to his suspension and release.

Its not his fault his receivers can't get open.

Its not his fault he is having to pick himself up off the ground on half the passing plays.

I'm not claiming that this guy will be the next Manning, Brees, or Brady. I'm saying this guy COULD be a solid QB for seasons to come if he only had some protection.

I like to bitch about the team as much as the next feller but let's bitch about the players that deserved to be bitched about.

[/rant]

Sweet Daddy Hate · 11-10-2009, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pioli Zombie

Its easy to always focus on the qb. Women do that. They'll know nothing about football and when the team is 1-7 they'll say "They need a new qb" because that's all they know about football. Kind of like Chiefs Planet.
Posted via Mobile Device

(Checks "damage control/Cassel" off the list)

**HemiEd** · 11-10-2009, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

The drafturbators will break upon this thread like a tidal wave upon the rocks.

Hang on to something.

Well I am sure no drafturbator, in fact probably the polar opposite. But Cassel has sucked and continues to get worse. Sunday was his worst showing to date IMO, when it counted. When there was plenty of time left in the game, he sucked.

He misses wide open targets, by a lot. He hurries throws, but holds on to the ball to long, a seemingly difficult task.

I am hoping a lot of this will improve when he gets better protection, but I am equally concerned that he is now damaged goods.

Ralphy Boy · 11-10-2009, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pr_capone

That is where I disagree with you.

I see it as he plays knowing we have shit for D. We can't afford turnovers. This defense can't stop anyone. By controlling the ball and taking sacks we are at the very minimum controlling field position.
Again, though I don't believe Cassel will be the next Montana or Elway, I believe he will do much better next season assuming we actually address the o-line.

Uhh, when you don't have a good defense, you don't control field position.

Cassel is ranked 24th in QB rating and 27th in completion %. You can point to all the stats you want, but the only people completing less passes than him is Kerry Collins, Mark Sanchez, Matt Stafford, Josh Johnson, JaMarcus Russell and Derek Anderson.
Thats embarrassing no matter how you slice it. Jake Delhomme is completing more passes. So is David Garrard, Trent Edwards and Shaun Hill. All except maybe Garrard will likely be backups next year or at the very least have someone drafted to replace them.

I realize there is no crystal ball in football, but Pioli had to realize that Cassel would not look nearly as good this year as he did last year, yet he paid him like he did. If they gave him $10m guaranteed, Cassel would have signed whatever contract they put in front of him. The fact that Pioli gave Cassel a huge contract in the offseason does not speak well of his ability to manage the payroll of this team. There was absolutely no reason to do it. He was going to play here, no matter what, this season and we had plenty of cap space to pay him, yet Cassel had a stacked deck in his favor and Pioli knew it but played anyway. Right now it looks like Cassel got his bluff in and won anyway.

**SAUTO** · 11-10-2009, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ralphy Boy

Uhh, when you don't have a good defense, you don't control field position.

Cassel is ranked 24th in QB rating and 27th in completion %. You can point to all the stats you want, but the only people completing less passes than him is Kerry Collins, Mark Sanchez, Matt Stafford, Josh Johnson, JaMarcus Russell and Derek Anderson.
Thats embarrassing no matter how you slice it. Jake Delhomme is completing more passes. So is David Garrard, Trent Edwards and Shaun Hill. All except maybe Garrard will likely be backups next year or at the very least have someone drafted to replace them.

I realize there is no crystal ball in football, but Pioli had to realize that Cassel would not look nearly as good this year as he did last year, yet he paid him like he did. If they gave him $10m guaranteed, Cassel would have signed whatever contract they put in front of him. The fact that Pioli gave Cassel a huge contract in the offseason does not speak well of his ability to manage the payroll of this team. There was absolutely no reason to do it. He was going to play here, no matter what, this season and we had plenty of cap space to pay him, yet Cassel had a stacked deck in his favor and Pioli knew it but played anyway. Right now it looks like Cassel got his bluff in and won anyway.

why would he do that when he was GUARANTEED 14$ Million for this year ALONE. so in your opinion he would have taken LESS money than he was already guaranteed?

Coogs · 11-10-2009, 11:11 AM

pr_capone

Just for the fun of it, let's throw in Aaron Rodgers numbers projected out over his 2nd season just like Cassels. Same order as the other guys...

Completions 328
Attempts 520
Percent 63.1
Yards 4510
TD's 32
INT's 10
Sacks 74

And Rogers is only 25 as compared to 27.

I'm not bashing on Cassel (and his name is Matt Cassel, not Mark Castle... so in a way, you are disrespecting Cassel more than most here). I just feel like we have the right to question his abilities just like any other player on the team. He is not doing his job to a satisfactory level game in and game out. In fact, besides a moment or two in three games (Oakland, Dallas, Jax), he has been pretty poor at best.

Sure, I see him not have a lot of time to throw on many occasions. But I also see him have time on once in a while... maybe a roll out or scramble... when he has had time to set his feet, and had receivers open, and he has missed them badly. Yes, I have seen the best of QB's do that as well. But I also see other QB's make those plays on a much more consistant basis.

I find it hard to believe you can watch any game so far this season, and not start to question weather Cassel shouldn't be pulled for the better of the team. If not, then everybody else including Brown, Rudy, Goff, Albert, Carr, and on and on, should get a free pass as well.

Demonpenz · 11-10-2009, 11:15 AM

stats tell half the story, then you watch him play and he misses open recievers all the time

Demonpenz · 11-10-2009, 11:15 AM

on top of not being accurate he is late with throws. Lance Long was wide open on that slant and he waits until he is covered

BigChiefFan · 11-10-2009, 11:22 AM

Cassel has done well considering he's had very little talent to work with. I'm hopeful, Chambers will help open up the running game by spreading the field some.

His worst game was against San Diego, where he threw 3 picks. By far his worst outing.

Coogs · 11-10-2009, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigChiefFan

Cassel has done well considering he's had very little talent to work with.

I must have a huge problem with my TV. The picture looks crystal clear. HD over an open air antenna on a 55" Sony Bravia set. I don't see Cassel doing well.

LaChapelle · 11-10-2009, 12:29 PM

Mark Castles sucks -bash him
the team gets better draft picks to wack to
win-win

Chiefnj2 · 11-10-2009, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coogs

I must have a huge problem with my TV. The picture looks crystal clear. HD over an open air antenna on a 55" Sony Bravia set. I don't see Cassel doing well.

Do you see him under constant pressure? Do you see him facing 3rd and long a large number of times? Do you see him have any support with the run game?

**BossChief** · 11-10-2009, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pioli Zombie

Its easy to always focus on the qb. Women do that. They'll know nothing about football and when the team is 1-7 they'll say "They need a new qb" because that's all they know about football. Kind of like Chiefs Planet.
Posted via Mobile Device

you are a complete and total idiot.

Take Brady away from your team and you were no better than the other teams BB coached previously.

Name me a few teams that turned everything around without the insertion of a great QB.....you can count those teams on one hand.

Why do you post here?

Coogs · 11-10-2009, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Do you see him under constant pressure? Do you see him facing 3rd and long a large number of times? Do you see him have any support with the run game?

I see him under pressure, but not constant pressure. I see him avoid pressure on occasion. I see him missfire a lot in those situations. More so than not.

I see him face 3rd and long a large number of times. Some of those are a direct result of his decisions/throws.

LJ and his 2.7 didn't help the cause much.

Do I need to call a TV repairman?

**BossChief** · 11-10-2009, 01:24 PM

I think Cassel being under constant pressure is a lot more than his weak oline, teams send more players on blitzes than normal because they know it disrupts him. I guarantee that if he would get the ball out sooner, he wouldnt be getting blitzed 100% of the time, making the line look even worse. My hope is that he makes strides by years end to getting this ****er rolling as he did in NE last year. His last 6 games were almost twice as productive as his first six games last year.

The remainder of this season will show us how much of an upgrade Haley/Cassel are to Herm/Thigpen alot more than the first half of it did.

tooge · 11-10-2009, 01:25 PM

His completion percentage stinks. He takes more sacks yes, but much of that is he holds onto the ball waaaaay to long. I would bet the guy ends up being a qb with a career passer rating of about 80 when its all said and done. Not bad, but not worth 60 million bucks.

11-10-2009, 01:08 AM
pr_capone THREEPEAT!!! Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NWMO Casino cash: $9948214	Get of Mark Castle's back! First and foremost... I am no Cassel apologist but I am tired of reading posts just bashing Matt left and right. Here are the numbers. And before I get started... ** all this "garbage time" bullshit. EVERY QB in the league has garbage time stats so let's not get too wrapped up in that. It's not like teams have replaced all their starters with 2nd and 3rd stringers at the end of games on us. This is a statistical comparison of current QB's 2nd season as full time starters. Cassel, Ryan, & Flacco's stats are projected numbers of 16 games played in a season. Pay special attention to the TD, INT, and Sack numbers. Completions Cassel - 286 Ryan - 312 Flacco - 366 Brady - 373 McNabb - 285 Rivers - 277 Attempts Cassel - 514 Ryan - 514 Flacco - 564 Brady - 601 McNabb - 493 Rivers - 460 Completion Percentage Cassel - 55.6 Ryan - 60.9 Flacco - 64.9 Brady - 62.1 McNabb - 57.8 Rivers - 60.2 Yards Cassel - 2871 Ryan - 3568 Flacco - 4088 Brady - 3764 McNabb - 3233 Rivers - 3152 TDs Cassel - 23 Ryan - 26 Flacco - 24 Brady - 23 McNabb - 25 Rivers - 21 INTs Cassel - 11 Ryan - 20 Flacco - 14 Brady - 14 McNabb - 12 Rivers - 15 Sacks Cassel - 62 Ryan - 24 Flacco - 32 Brady - 31 McNabb - 39 Rivers - 22 What I get out of the stats. While Cassel could certainly stand to improve his completion percentage and total yardage, he is doing a damn fine job of producing in this **tarded offense. His completion and total yardage stats have been killed due to the fact that the man has zero time to set up and find an open receiver as shown by the sack numbers. I would love to know the number of times each QB was hurried and forced to run but if the sack numbers are any indication, Cassel would nearly double the amount of any of the QB's listed in this comparison. His mobility has likely saved him from another dozen or so sacks at the halfway mark. People dog Cassel for being unable to throw the deep ball. Hopefully that argument was squelched a bit after the long pass to Chambers today whom he hit in stride for a TD. It is amazing what a competent QB can do when he has a bit of time and a receiver with reliable hands & a touch of speed. Lastly, and probably of most importance for a team like the Chiefs who are in transition on both sides of the ball, Cassel takes care of the damn ball while still throwing TD's. Cassel is on pace to throw fewer interceptions than any of the QB's listed in the comparison despite his o-line's inability to keep him on his feet. In fact, he has thrown interceptions in only 2 of his 7 games played so far this season. Oh yeah... and though he has been sacked more than any of the QB's listed he has yet to lose a fumble. I don't know what more you want from the guy. It's not his fault 3/5 of his offensive line would not start on ANY other team in the NFL. Its not his fault that his coach is calling a limp dick game offensively. Its not his fault that his featured RB averaged a whopping 2.7 yards per carry with 0 TDs prior to his suspension and release. Its not his fault his receivers can't get open. Its not his fault he is having to pick himself up off the ground on half the passing plays. I'm not claiming that this guy will be the next Manning, Brees, or Brady. I'm saying this guy COULD be a solid QB for seasons to come if he only had some protection. I like to bitch about the team as much as the next feller but let's bitch about the players that deserved to be bitched about. [/rant]
Posts: 19,897

11-10-2009, 11:11 AM	#80
Coogs In Search of a Life Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Northern Kansas Casino cash: $-2135651	pr_capone Just for the fun of it, let's throw in Aaron Rodgers numbers projected out over his 2nd season just like Cassels. Same order as the other guys... Completions 328 Attempts 520 Percent 63.1 Yards 4510 TD's 32 INT's 10 Sacks 74 And Rogers is only 25 as compared to 27. I'm not bashing on Cassel (and his name is Matt Cassel, not Mark Castle... so in a way, you are disrespecting Cassel more than most here). I just feel like we have the right to question his abilities just like any other player on the team. He is not doing his job to a satisfactory level game in and game out. In fact, besides a moment or two in three games (Oakland, Dallas, Jax), he has been pretty poor at best. Sure, I see him not have a lot of time to throw on many occasions. But I also see him have time on once in a while... maybe a roll out or scramble... when he has had time to set his feet, and had receivers open, and he has missed them badly. Yes, I have seen the best of QB's do that as well. But I also see other QB's make those plays on a much more consistant basis. I find it hard to believe you can watch any game so far this season, and not start to question weather Cassel shouldn't be pulled for the better of the team. If not, then everybody else including Brown, Rudy, Goff, Albert, Carr, and on and on, should get a free pass as well.
Posts: 21,898

11-10-2009, 11:15 AM	#81
Demonpenz Woman should only make babies Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Apartment "G UNIT!" Casino cash: $-293864	stats tell half the story, then you watch him play and he misses open recievers all the time __________________
Posts: 54,947

11-10-2009, 11:15 AM	#82
Demonpenz Woman should only make babies Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Apartment "G UNIT!" Casino cash: $-293864	on top of not being accurate he is late with throws. Lance Long was wide open on that slant and he waits until he is covered __________________
Posts: 54,947

11-10-2009, 11:22 AM	#83
BigChiefFan MVP Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: In the Top 10 Casino cash: $9924205	Cassel has done well considering he's had very little talent to work with. I'm hopeful, Chambers will help open up the running game by spreading the field some. His worst game was against San Diego, where he threw 3 picks. By far his worst outing. __________________ A 35 year drought can make you thirsty.
Posts: 15,777

11-10-2009, 12:29 PM	#85
LaChapelle Banned Join Date: Mar 2009 Casino cash: $10004900	Mark Castles sucks -bash him the team gets better draft picks to wack to win-win
Posts: 8,588

11-10-2009, 01:24 PM	#89
BossChief SuperBowl or bust Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: BF Iowa Casino cash: $-1645912	I think Cassel being under constant pressure is a lot more than his weak oline, teams send more players on blitzes than normal because they know it disrupts him. I guarantee that if he would get the ball out sooner, he wouldnt be getting blitzed 100% of the time, making the line look even worse. My hope is that he makes strides by years end to getting this **er rolling as he did in NE last year. His last 6 games were almost twice as productive as his first six games last year.** The remainder of this season will show us how much of an upgrade Haley/Cassel are to Herm/Thigpen alot more than the first half of it did. __________________ Dreams do come true... http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...postcount=1407
Posts: 47,890

11-10-2009, 01:25 PM	#90
tooge MVP Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Liberty, MO Casino cash: $734112	His completion percentage stinks. He takes more sacks yes, but much of that is he holds onto the ball waaaaay to long. I would bet the guy ends up being a qb with a career passer rating of about 80 when its all said and done. Not bad, but not worth 60 million bucks.
Posts: 17,153