***Official 2015 STL Cardinals Thread***

[BigRedChief]

2011 World Series Championship
2012 NLCS. One win from another WS appearance.
2013 World Series. Two wins from another World Series Championship
2014 NLCS. Three wins from another WS appearance

• Made the postseason 10 times in the last 14 seasons.
• Only 1 losing season since 2000.
• Reached the World Series 4 times since 2004 and won as many championships (two) the past eight seasons as it did from 1965 to 2005.
• Made the NLCS 9 times including the last 4 years 2011-2014
• Three million attendance? Take it to the bank.
• 65 post season wins since 2004. 22+ wins more than any other team.

[Marcellus]

Originally Posted by O.city

Heyward hitting 8th

Should be 9th.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

Should be 9th.

since going into the 6 hole, he's actually been pretty good

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

Here is to you having a 6-0 week this upcoming week. It would be a great time for a winning streak.

We are operating short handed and playing 36 games in 37 days. Hard to maintain the top shelf play.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

I never said he was anything approaching a jam reliever. In fact, I said the exact opposite of that. I said that a major limiting part of his value is the fact that he has a very specific, limited role. You don't want him on the field if there are runners on second or third.

He's a niche reliever, like Choate.

No, Choate's a shit reliever.

This is like calling Matt Cassel a game manager and then trying to equate him with Alex Smith.

Randy Choate is garbage who can't even get lefties out, let alone be asked to face a single righty. His existence on this roster is doing a lot to create the 13 man bullpen that's crippling our bench. He's not a niche reliever, he's just a piece of crap with a long-term contract.

Maness, OTOH, can be used 70+ time/season and to great effect. He's not an elite reliever like Davis but as a guy that can give you 70 high quality innings at the back of your bullpen, he's a damn nice piece to have.

But as a guy that's going to be putting balls in play, I've never agreed with how the Cardinals use him. Sure, if you have a man on 1st and one out, bring him in. But if there's 2 outs, don't bother and if there's not a DP in order (or a key run at 2b) don't bring him in. Live by BABIP, die by BABIP.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

We are operating short handed and playing 36 games in 37 days. Hard to maintain the top shelf play.

With a 'lightheadedness' diagnosis, we could have easily put Carpenter on the short-term concussion DL and freed up a bench spot. We definitely should get rid of Choate to get us back to 12 relievers and actually have a viable bench.

Yeah, it's hard to maintain top shelf play, it's even harder when you're dedicating roster spots to Choate, Kozma and Cruz while also not using resources available like the 7-day DL to help get some additional reserves to the bench.

I still can't believe we have a bench with no lefties on it. How the hell does that happen?

[O.city]

I don't really understand the reasoning for Choate.

And sadly, I'm afraid we are going to have to go find a starting pitcher or 2.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I still can't believe we have a bench with no lefties on it. How the hell does that happen?

The really sad part is the best bench we have had in a while.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by O.city

And sadly, I'm afraid we are going to have to go find a starting pitcher or 2.

Latest rumors is Connely/Piscotty or Grichuk for Kazmir.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

No, Choate's a shit reliever.

This is like calling Matt Cassel a game manager and then trying to equate him with Alex Smith.

Randy Choate is garbage who can't even get lefties out, let alone be asked to face a single righty. His existence on this roster is doing a lot to create the 13 man bullpen that's crippling our bench. He's not a niche reliever, he's just a piece of crap with a long-term contract.

Maness, OTOH, can be used 70+ time/season and to great effect. He's not an elite reliever like Davis but as a guy that can give you 70 high quality innings at the back of your bullpen, he's a damn nice piece to have.

But as a guy that's going to be putting balls in play, I've never agreed with how the Cardinals use him. Sure, if you have a man on 1st and one out, bring him in. But if there's 2 outs, don't bother and if there's not a DP in order (or a key run at 2b) don't bring him in. Live by BABIP, die by BABIP.

Look, I despise Choate, but you're talking out of both sides of your mouth here. Last week your argument was that Maness was a highly undervalued commodity because of opponents' ISO against him.

Well, last year Choate held lefties to .091/.205/.147, good for a .056 ISO. The year before, his ISO was .053 and lefties hit .171/.268/.264 against him.

The truth is, he's really, really good at getting lefties out if you look at advanced metrics. Now, I think that he'll walk the bases loaded if you just put the bat on your shoulder, but you can't speak of how one is significantly underrated and use his ISO to indicate the weak contact he induces while the other guy you bash is actually much better at his role.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Look, I despise Choate, but you're talking out of both sides of your mouth here. Last week your argument was that Maness was a highly undervalued commodity because of opponents' ISO against him.

Well, last year Choate held lefties to .091/.205/.147, good for a .056 ISO. The year before, his ISO was .053 and lefties hit .171/.268/.264 against him.

The truth is, he's really, really good at getting lefties out if you look at advanced metrics. Now, I think that he'll walk the bases loaded if you just put the bat on your shoulder, but you can't speak of how one is significantly underrated and use his ISO to indicate the weak contact he induces while the other guy you bash is actually much better at his role.

Last year Choate was ticking 85 and the year before he was at 86.

He's down to about 83 now and his slider's lost just as much velocity. Randy Choate of 2015 is now completely ineffective. Randy Choate of 2014 had a role that was of much less utility than Maness's, but a role nonetheless. Now we have a bullpen in tatters and Choate's stuff has now gotten so bad that he's a complete liability.

The truth is that he once used to be good at getting lefties out and now he's not. Moreover, even if you assume he still can be, putting him in the same class as Maness is like saying that a guy who's a capable pinch runner but nothing else is of equal value to a guy that can give you 300 ABs quality ABs off the bench. Not all niches are created anywhere close to equal.

[O.city]

Wong hitting leadoff, carp back in the 2 hole, Reynolds DH.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Last year Choate was ticking 85 and the year before he was at 86.

He's down to about 83 now and his slider's lost just as much velocity. Randy Choate of 2015 is now completely ineffective. Randy Choate of 2014 had a role that was of much less utility than Maness's, but a role nonetheless. Now we have a bullpen in tatters and Choate's stuff has now gotten so bad that he's a complete liability.

The truth is that he once used to be good at getting lefties out and now he's not. Moreover, even if you assume he still can be, putting him in the same class as Maness is like saying that a guy who's a capable pinch runner but nothing else is of equal value to a guy that can give you 300 ABs quality ABs off the bench. Not all niches are created anywhere close to equal.

So 5.1 IP in April and May is now a suitable sample size for velocity?

Since you're argument assumes it is, let's take that to its logical conclusion: his xFIP is almost a run better than last year. His FIP is nearly half, he's striking out more batters and walking fewer.

In fact, his stuff is now so bad against lefties that they have a .000 ISO and a .513 OPS against him.

[O.city]

Reynolds 2 out base hit scores 2, cards up 2 0

[LiL stumppy]

def don't need lynn getting hurt. looks okay for now though

[O.city]

Holliday blows it open with a 3 run oppodinger