Flanagan: LJ rips Vermeil in HBO interview

[tk13]

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansas...s/16118327.htm

JEFFREY FLANAGAN TOP OF THE MORNIN’
Kansas City Star

Johnson tuned out when Vermeil talked

Larry Johnson, appearing in a feature with Cris Carter on HBO’s “Inside the NFL” this week, makes it clear again that he really wasn’t all that interested in playing for Dick Vermeil.

“I wouldn’t pay attention,” Johnson said of playing under Vermeil. “My eyes, I would be up in the sky. You know, I would be sleeping in my locker. I wouldn’t carry my playbook because I was just trying to get away from this building, you know, when Dick was here.”

(It should be interesting when Vermeil calls the Chiefs-Oakland game for NFL Network Dec. 23.)

Carter’s interview with Johnson, which appears at 9 tonight, also focuses on LJ’s relationship with Herm Edwards.

Carter asked LJ, “Do you think Herm Edwards, being an African-American and you being raised, of course, by an African-American, that you see a lot of similarities in Herm that you saw in your dad that made you open up to him?”

LJ’s response: “I think so. I could relate to Herman. I couldn’t do that with the other coaches I had because they had not done it. You know, they haven’t put those pads or they haven’t been in the situation as a young black athlete and know what we had to go through.

“You know, when we go out, you know, we like to go out. You know, we like to hang out. We like to have fun. But then you got to worry about the guy around the corner with the gun. You got to worry about this girl on the block. You got to worry about, you know, your parents. You got to worry about your homeboys taking advantage of you.

“There’s so much things you got to worry about being a young black athlete. And to be able to have a father like mine and have a coach like Herm, I was able to escape a lot of those realities and find myself in a new ray of light.”

Edwards also contributes to the show.

“First time I saw (Johnson), I said: ‘Are you ready? Are you ready to touch the ball 30 times a game?’ ” Edwards said. “And he kind of looked up at me, and he probably thought, ‘I haven’t even met coach yet, and he’s — what, is he messin’ with me?’ ”

[Pitt Gorilla]

Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter

Fair enough.

It's just disappointing. I suppose everyone has their baggage....but this shit makes me long for the eccentricities of Priest.

I'd prefer, "I'll do my job. But give me my space" to "I'll do my job. As long as whitey don't keep me down" B.S.

Wow, I didn't see that at all. Carter brought up race and Johnson answered the question fairly well for what it was. I must have missed the "whitey keep me down" part.

[Easy 6]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

What's messed up to me is that a conservative, white 43 year-old teacher and father of four-plus children living in South Dakota thinks he can understand a 27 year-old black multi-millionaire that hangs out with Jay-Z and Beyonce (among others) in his spare time. You can't and quite frankly, you never will.

Carter asked LJ a simple question and LJ responded in kind. What did all you people expect LJ to do? Answer it like YOU would answer it (or better yet, how you *wanted* him to answer it) or answer it truthfully?

The bottom line is that so many of the *fans* want to like their hometown atheletes but in reality, they have very, very, very little common ground between them. The atheletes "struggles", real or imagined are very different from that of the "common" man. That doesn't make the struggles any more or less important than those of the fans. It's just their experience.

I don't watch NFL Football because I want to *like* the players or want to hang out with them or worship them. I watch the NFL for the entertainment factor. I'd love for my team to win every game and I'll travel all over the country to watch them do so, but liking them or hanging out with them is not even a factor in whether or not I'll watch *my* team.

I appreciate LJ's honesty in the interview but I really don't care what he thinks about DV or Herm or whatever. If he runs well and the Chiefs win, I'm a fan. If he runs out of steam, get injured or doesn't play well, bring on the next guy. It's that simple.

You make some excellent points here Dane. But for me personally, i really do want to like the guys on my team...or atleast respect them. If this were some bungles bunch or some similar team, my interest in the CHIEFS would take a huge hit.

It just seems pointless to hear some multi-millionaire who is on top of the world tell me about his awful struggles.

But then again he was asked & so he answered, i'm sure i will get over this.

[Mr. Kotter]

Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla

Wow, I didn't see that at all. Carter brought up race and Johnson answered the question fairly well for what it was. I must have missed the "whitey keep me down" part.

If you don't sense that from what the guy says, you aren't as bright as I had assumed. My bad.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla

Wow, I didn't see that at all. Carter brought up race and Johnson answered the question fairly well for what it was. I must have missed the "whitey keep me down" part.

Replace "whitey" with "Dicky" and you have the gist of the first part of the interveiw.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

What's messed up to me is that a conservative, white 43 year-old teacher and father of four-plus children living in South Dakota thinks he can understand a 27 year-old black multi-millionaire that hangs out with Jay-Z and Beyonce (among others) in his spare time. You can't and quite frankly, you never will.

Carter asked LJ a simple question and LJ responded in kind. What did all you people expect LJ to do? Answer it like YOU would answer it (or better yet, how you *wanted* him to answer it) or answer it truthfully?

The bottom line is that so many of the *fans* want to like their hometown atheletes but in reality, they have very, very, very little common ground between them. The atheletes "struggles", real or imagined are very different from that of the "common" man. That doesn't make the struggles any more or less important than those of the fans. It's just their experience.

I don't watch NFL Football because I want to *like* the players or want to hang out with them or worship them. I watch the NFL for the entertainment factor. I'd love for my team to win every game and I'll travel all over the country to watch them do so, but liking them or hanging out with them is not even a factor in whether or not I'll watch *my* team.

I appreciate LJ's honesty in the interview but I really don't care what he thinks about DV or Herm or whatever. If he runs well and the Chiefs win, I'm a fan. If he runs out of steam, get injured or doesn't play well, bring on the next guy. It's that simple.

So it's messed up that Kotter cares what kind of person LJ is, but you're not because you only care about how he's able to entertain you?

[NewChief]

Originally Posted by Chief Faithful

The whole former player thing sounds like self rationalization to avoid feelings of guilt. I think the truth is LJ is more comfortable with a black man as his coach.

I disagree. I think LJ is more comfortable with Herm, who happens to be black, as his coach vs. DV, who happens to be white, as his coach. It's no secret that DV and LJ didn't get along for a variety of reasons. I don't ever hear LJ dissing JoePa.

[Mr. Kotter]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

What's messed up to me is that a conservative, white 43 year-old teacher and father of four-plus children living in South Dakota thinks he can understand a 27 year-old black multi-millionaire that hangs out with Jay-Z and Beyonce (among others) in his spare time. You can't and quite frankly, you never will.

Carter asked LJ a simple question and LJ responded in kind. What did all you people expect LJ to do? Answer it like YOU would answer it (or better yet, how you *wanted* him to answer it) or answer it truthfully?
The bottom line is that so many of the *fans* want to like their hometown atheletes but in reality, they have very, very, very little common ground between them. The atheletes "struggles", real or imagined are very different from that of the "common" man. That doesn't make the struggles any more or less important than those of the fans. It's just their experience.

I don't watch NFL Football because I want to *like* the players or want to hang out with them or worship them. I watch the NFL for the entertainment factor. I'd love for my team to win every game and I'll travel all over the country to watch them do so, but liking them or hanging out with them is not even a factor in whether or not I'll watch *my* team.

I appreciate LJ's honesty in the interview but I really don't care what he thinks about DV or Herm or whatever. If he runs well and the Chiefs win, I'm a fan. If he runs out of steam, get injured or doesn't play well, bring on the next guy. It's that simple.

First, just because I'm who I am now...doesn't mean I can't relate to LJ. The first 27 years of my life? You know what....minus the money and the NFL career, I'd bet he and I had a WHOLE lot of other things in common. While those are big differences, any psychologist will discuss with you ad nauseam the bonds of common human experience. Suffice it to say, we have a lot more in common as people--than we have real differences. So you are just FOS on your first point.

Secondly, I understand Carter asked the question. LJ was not smart enough--or mature enough--to give a more reasonable and diplomatic answer. Maybe this, in a twisted way, gives him more street cred. Either way, that's too bad.

Third, maybe the reason you seem to imagine such a large expanse between athletes and "their fans" is your Hollywood experience. I don't know, but you are just wrong about that to a large extent. Sure there are differences, but most are based in how we are brought up.... and our socio-economic and educational backgrounds. And not nearly as much in the "star factor" as you seem to be suggesting.

Fourth, you and I may watch the games for entertainment. However, there should be an element of pride....in representing a community, or having the good fortune to be who one is....that makes one more responsible in the way they represent themselves to the public. Marcus Allen, Joe Montana, Trent Green, Eddie Kennison.....hell, even John Elway (later in his career) understood this. Terrrel Owens, Ray Lewis, Jake Plummer, and Bill Romanowski don't. LJ has time to figure it out, but this ain't a good indicator.

Fifth, honesty is important. But so is perspective, tact, and diplomacy. Like it or not, stars and athletes are role models--especially for kids. Sure, I want LJ to perform well, and run for 2,000 yards every year. However, it's a helluva lot easier to like the guy/be proud of the guy when he's not being a pansy and pulling the race card crap....and claiming "victim" status that a guy, with HIS background, is not really entitled to by any stretch of the imagination.

What can we do about it? Not much. But that doesn't mean we have to like it....isn't that alright Mr. "Agree to Disagree?"

[Chief Faithful]

Originally Posted by NewChief

I disagree. I think LJ is more comfortable with Herm, who happens to be black, as his coach vs. DV, who happens to be white, as his coach. It's no secret that DV and LJ didn't get along for a variety of reasons. I don't ever hear LJ dissing JoePa.

Who said anything about dissing anybody. I see it more as a reflection of our current society in general. Blacks have to deal with racial issues much more than white people in America.

[DaneMcCloud]

[QUOTE=Mr. Kotter]First, just because I'm who I am now...doesn't mean I can't relate to LJ. The first 27 years of my life? You know what....minus the money and the NFL career, I'd bet he and I had a WHOLE lot of other things in common. While those are big differences, any psychologist will discuss with you ad nauseam the bonds of common human experience. Suffice it to say, we have a lot more in common as people--than we have real differences. So you are just FOS on your first point.

Really? I wasn't aware that you were hanging out with rockstars, actors & actresses and jet setting all over the US. My bad.

Secondly, I understand Carter asked the question. LJ was not smart enough to give a more reasonable and diplomatic answer. Maybe this, in a twisted way, gives him more street cred.

Oh, so LJ would have been *smart* if he would have said it was no different. This just goes to show that you EXPECTED LJ to be like you. He answered honestly, but that wasn't good enough because in your eyes, "he's one of them", not "one of us". That's what you wanted to hear, isn't it? That he's just like you?


Third, maybe the reason you seem to imagine such a large expanse between athletes and "their fans" is your Hollywood experience. I don't know, but you are just wrong about that to a large extent. Sure there are differences, but most are based in how we are brought up....our socio-economic and educational backgrounds. And not nearly as much in the "star factor" as you seem to be suggesting.

You're out of your freakin' mind. Hollywood actors normally don't grow up in places like Compton, South Florida, the ghettos of Philly, NY & Chicago. They aren't faced with life or death situations, nor are they confronted with guns and violence. For you to expect most of these atheletes to have the same, sheltered experience as a white person growing up in North Dakota or Kansas is beyone me. Most of these people are VERY different from you and why you'd expect to have ANY common ground is ludicrous. Does that mean that if I take you down to Compton off of Western Avenue some day that you'll be treated with open arms by non multi-millionaire atheletes? Give me a break.

Fourth, you and I may watch the games for entertainment. However, there should be an element of pride....in representing a community, or having the good fortune to be who one is....that makes one more responsible in the way they represent themselves to the public. Marcus Allen, Joe Montana, Trent Green, Eddie Kennison.....hell, even John Elway (later in his career) understood this. Terrrel Owens, Ray Lewis, Jake Plummer, and Bill Romanowski don't. LJ has time to figure it out, but this ain't a good indicator.

Well, there you go again. Placing YOUR values on others. Why should there be an element of pride? It's a game, it's a business and it's a paycheck. Show me the *Pride Rule* in the NFL handbook and then maybe your point would be valid.

Fifth, honesty is important. But so is perspective, tact, and diplomacy. Like it or not, stars and athletes are role models--especially for kids. Sure, I want LJ to perform well, and run for 2,000 yards every year. However, it's a helluva lot easier to like the guy/be proud of the guy when he's not being a pansy and pulling the race card crap....and claiming "victim" status that a guy, with HIS background, is not really entitled to by any stretch of the imagination.

So again, you're saying that LJ should have said what YOU wanted him to say - that the color of the skin was insignificant because now, the "kids" are involved? That's probably the biggest indicator of how you feel here. You wanted LJ to be like you and do what you expected. Again, why?

What can we do about it? Not much. But that doesn't mean we have to like it....isn't that alright Mr. "Agree to Disagree?" [/QUOTE

[Calcountry]

Originally Posted by Braincase

If a white guy is born in South Africa, raised there, then becomes a naturalized American citizen, does that make him an African-American?

I prefer to refer to folks based on their heritage. If you are of African-heritage, then you are just that, a person of African heritage. Same thing with Latin America, European, Asian, Arabic, etc.

Just call me American because I have a diverse gene pool, as do my Children.

[MVChiefFan]

Everyone who is black or totally without a doubt understands what it is like to live your whole life as a black person please raise your hands.

No one?

Well, by all means, please continue ripping.

[Mr. Kotter]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Really? I wasn't aware that you were hanging out with rockstars, actors & actresses and jet setting all over the US. My bad.

Oh, so LJ would have been *smart* if he would have said it was no different. This just goes to show that you EXPECTED LJ to be like you. He answered honestly, but that wasn't good enough because in your eyes, "he's one of them", not "one of us". That's what you wanted to hear, isn't it? That he's just like you?

You're out of your freakin' mind. Hollywood actors normally don't grow up in places like Compton, South Florida, the ghettos of Philly, NY & Chicago. They aren't faced with life or death situations, nor are they confronted with guns and violence. For you to expect most of these atheletes to have the same, sheltered experience as a white person growing up in North Dakota or Kansas is beyone me. Most of these people are VERY different from you and why you'd expect to have ANY common ground is ludicrous. Does that mean that if I take you down to Compton off of Western Avenue some day that you'll be treated with open arms by non multi-millionaire atheletes? Give me a break.

Well, there you go again. Placing YOUR values on others. Why should there be an element of pride? It's a game, it's a business and it's a paycheck. Show me the *Pride Rule* in the NFL handbook and then maybe your point would be valid.

So again, you're saying that LJ should have said what YOU wanted him to say - that the color of the skin was insignificant because now, the "kids" are involved? That's probably the biggest indicator of how you feel here. You wanted LJ to be like you and do what you expected. Again, why? ..

Let's see:

1. You reject the idea and importance of common human experience being more significant than things like money and fame. Check.

2. You equate being responsible, tactful, and mature with what "JimNasium I would expect." Okay, you got that one right; but according to you, I guess I shouldn't expect that of him.

3. You seem a bit star-struck, to me. Personally, many (especially spoiled and ungrateful athletes and other stars, including many in Hollywood) of these people don't impress, at all. They seem to have most of the same experiences and struggles that all of us have--except maybe they are magnified, and publicized much more so by their celebrity. I've been a season-ticket holder for six years.....been to TC in River Falls four of the last five years. You know how many "autographs" I personally have? Not one. Because they don't mean nothing to me.

FTR, I didn't grow up in a sheltered environment--far, far from it actually; LJ's environment was/is much more sheltered than that I knew for the first 20 years or so of my life. I mentioned it earlier, I DID grow up in the ghetto...the shit I witnessed growing up, still gives me nightmares on occasion.

4. I'm not insisting on my values: it's just the "right thing" to do....to simply do the adult and responsible thing, IMHO. If he chooses to be a thug/a banger/a ganster....fine. Look at what's happening to the NBA. It's too bad, as far as I'm concerned--not only for him/them, but for those who consider him/them to be role models, regardless of whether they "should" or not.

5. I just think, by age 27 he should be growing up. He got a late start on his celebrity, so there is still time. I just want LJ to grow up. Dick was/is right: he still needs to take off the damn diaper. That's all I'm saying.

Hell, he's acting in "real life" the way we do on a silly-assed discussion board. At least I know, in "real life" I'm not Mr. Kotter. I hope LJ doesn't have to look at that LJ (he showed in that interview) in the face in the mirror every morning for the next 50-60 years. That would be pretty depressing. Hopefully, he'll figure it out.

JMHO

[stevieray]

Originally Posted by MVChiefFan

Everyone who is black or totally without a doubt understands what it is like to live your whole life as a black person please raise your hands.

No one?

Well, by all means, please continue ripping.

And as long as we believe we are truly that different, racism will continue to thrive.

[FloridaMan88]

I'd rather to listen to Vermeil, a Super Bowl winning coach who has taken two different franchises to the Super Bowl, than Herm, a career .500 head coach who is a blowhard and a Marty-wannabe.

[Chiefnj]

The two problems with the interview that I see are:

1. LJ's attitude when DV was coach. It has nothing, IMO, to do with race - just immaturity (sleeping, not paying attention, not carrying the playbook, etc.)

2. The double standard of race in the NFL. It's okay for LJ to say he can't relate to a white coach, but what would happen if Vermeil had said the same thing? Instead of saying "take off the diapers" what would have happened if Vermeil said "You know, I just can't reach the kid because he's black and I'm white. I can deal with white players better because they understand where I'm coming from."