Chiefs Re-Signing Brandon Carr: What Do You Do - Page 7

Direckshun · 12-05-2011, 01:41 AM

There's about four more week of football ahead of us.

We've managed to wrap up Brandon Flowers during the season, Tamba Hali this offseason, DJ and Jamaal Charles last offseason...

This offseason, we have two very important players hitting free agency, and one franchise tag.

The tag goes to Bowe, no sweat. It's impossible to find franchise WRs, and when you have one, you must keep it. He's Top 10 at his position. Carr, for all his talent, is not. He's maybe top 25.

But what would you do if:

Carr (or, more likely, his agent) knows Carr is bound to be drastically overpaid on the free agent market, as young talent almost always is.

He knows the Chiefs desperately want Carr to stay on board. And the Chiefs have no leverage to keep him on board because their franchise tag is tied up with Bowe.

So knowing he has ALL the leverage in this situation, Carr opens big:

"I want 5 years, $50 million, $22 million guaranteed.

Just like my teammate, Brandon Flowers." (And other top flight corners like Johnathan Joseph, who got almost the exact same deal.)

You can haggle with Carr, but keep in mind, you're incredibly time-pressured, and Carr knows he has the leverage here. Even if you get him to come down, it's going to be nickels and dimes lower, not much else.

Do you (a.) sign Carr to a damn near identical deal to Brandon Flowers, or (b.)let Carr walk and just collect the 3rd or 4th round compensatory pick next year.

That's likely going to be our options at this point, folks.

Poll forthcoming.

DJ's left nut · 12-05-2011, 01:32 PM

To extend him early, I think you'll have to offer him Flowers money now.

Otherwise, what does he gain by not testing the market?

Again - we were absolute fools to let this linger through the season. Now the Chiefs have absolutely no leverage because they can't even threaten to use the franchise tag on him (everyone knows that they'll tag Bowe as a negotiating ploy).

His agent would be an idiot to not shop him at this point. Either the Chiefs can pay him their established going rate for a top-level CB (and Carr has a good argument that he's Flowers' equal), or he can go see if someone else out there will.

I think we'll be surprised by what he's able to command in free agency. I also think we're going to find out if the Arenas pick was absolutely ghastly or merely underwhelming.

Buckweath · 12-05-2011, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

Link?

That`s a supposition, to see if us fans want him at all costs.

As others have said, pay the man.

This defense has practically no weakness with a healthy Berry. You don`t want to create a new weakness, and diminish our thin depth even more.

BTW, Arenas cannot replace Carr as he has to play nickelback.

**Rausch** · 12-05-2011, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

.. You dont let him walk...

This...

BigChiefFan · 12-05-2011, 01:46 PM

He's only 25 years old and been very solid. We should re-sign him. I don't think his contract will be near that amount, but it's an interesting scenario.

**HemiEd** · 12-05-2011, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun

Again, the argument is NOT that Flowers/Carr is a bad combo.

I think they're a Top 5 combo. Maybe even a Top 3 combo.

But you're suggesting that we pay them $100 million together. It's important to keep context in mind.

Why do you give a **** about the money? It took how long for this team to come up with a pair of CBs? For****ingever! They even signed stumbling bumbling Ty Law trying to fill the ****ing hole.

We been through this shit before with safeties, remember not keeping Reggie Tongue?

Not keeping Neil Smith?

**Bowser** · 12-05-2011, 01:49 PM

To Direckshun and the others that think we should not pay that money to one position on the team -

Take the money and the bonus Carr would have received and apply it to another free agent target. What position would it be, and who is the player you have in mind?

Micjones · 12-05-2011, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun

He won't take it.

He wants Flowers money. Take it or leave it.

Give it to him. This has become a pass-first league.
This defense is on the cusp of being elite. Lock the guy up and let's turn our attention to shoring up this offense. Front load the contract. We have plenty of cap space.

sedated · 12-05-2011, 02:02 PM

Another vote for “pay him”. We’ve got the makings of a great defense, don’t create a hole that you have to fill with a high draft pick or big contract on a FA – keep a known commodity.

Like has been said, Carr is considered by some as superior to Flowers. I think they are a great combo, one is a shut-down type guy who silences one side, the other is the bravado playmaker high-stepping into the endzone after a pick-6.

Hammock Parties · 12-05-2011, 02:15 PM

We don't even know how good these corners can be at the moment.

If Houston and Hali get a DT/Neil Smith thing working, we're going to rape faces.

I'm talking 13-3 and first-round playoff losses, people!

Chief Faithful · 12-05-2011, 02:32 PM

To me the only true definition of a "shut down" corner is the one that is so good other teams avoid. In the case of the Chiefs other teams seem to target Flowers more than Carr so resigning Carr seems to me to be a no brainer.

**Bowser** · 12-05-2011, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega

I'm talking 13-3 and first-round playoff losses, people!

lcarus · 12-05-2011, 02:37 PM

Pay the dude. Seriously. He's been great for us. I'd rather pay him than Dwayne Bowe to be real honest here.

whoman69 · 12-05-2011, 02:57 PM

Lot of assumptions here which I don't think have any basis in reality. My assumption, which is as valid as anything anyone else threw out here, is that it won't take a Flowers deal to get it done. He's not a number one corner. He doesn't get many picks. He's a talented player and should be paid as one. I don't think the team can give a Flowers deal out because while the cap may be $30 million right now, that number drops after some other contracts get added in.

Nightfyre · 12-05-2011, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoman69

Lot of assumptions here which I don't think have any basis in reality. My assumption, which is as valid as anything anyone else threw out here, is that it won't take a Flowers deal to get it done. He's not a number one corner. He doesn't get many picks. He's a talented player and should be paid as one. I don't think the team can give a Flowers deal out because while the cap may be $30 million right now, that number drops after some other contracts get added in.

I think the Bowe deal will be offset by the decline in the Cassel deal. IIRC, Cassel is going from like 13MM to 5MM?

Mecca · 12-05-2011, 03:08 PM

Let's see the Chiefs have more money to spend than any other team so they have no excuse. Oh and on top of that, this perception that Flowers is so much better than Carr is ridiculous, watch how teams play us, they treat Carr like he's the better one, far less balls go to his receiver.

View Poll Results: What to do with Carr?
Resign Carr at basically Flowers' contract.	185	89.81%
Let Carr walk. Draft a corner high. Collect a 3rd or 4th compensatory pick next draft.	17	8.25%
Sign GAZ	4	1.94%
Voters: 206. You may not vote on this poll

12-05-2011, 01:41 AM
Direckshun __ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Springpatch Casino cash: $2103447	Re-Signing Brandon Carr: What Do You Do There's about four more week of football ahead of us. We've managed to wrap up Brandon Flowers during the season, Tamba Hali this offseason, DJ and Jamaal Charles last offseason... This offseason, we have two very important players hitting free agency, and one franchise tag. The tag goes to Bowe, no sweat. It's impossible to find franchise WRs, and when you have one, you must keep it. He's Top 10 at his position. Carr, for all his talent, is not. He's maybe top 25. But what would you do if: Carr (or, more likely, his agent) knows Carr is bound to be drastically overpaid on the free agent market, as young talent almost always is. He knows the Chiefs desperately want Carr to stay on board. And the Chiefs have no leverage to keep him on board because their franchise tag is tied up with Bowe. So knowing he has ALL the leverage in this situation, Carr opens big: "I want 5 years, $50 million, $22 million guaranteed. Just like my teammate, Brandon Flowers." (And other top flight corners like Johnathan Joseph, who got almost the exact same deal.) You can haggle with Carr, but keep in mind, you're incredibly time-pressured, and Carr knows he has the leverage here. Even if you get him to come down, it's going to be nickels and dimes lower, not much else. Do you (a.) sign Carr to a damn near identical deal to Brandon Flowers, or (b.)let Carr walk and just collect the 3rd or 4th round compensatory pick next year. That's likely going to be our options at this point, folks. Poll forthcoming.
Posts: 59,690

12-05-2011, 01:32 PM	#91
DJ's left nut Sauntering Vaguely Downwards Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Columbia, Mo Casino cash: $-670901	To extend him early, I think you'll have to offer him Flowers money now. Otherwise, what does he gain by not testing the market? Again - we were absolute fools to let this linger through the season. Now the Chiefs have absolutely no leverage because they can't even threaten to use the franchise tag on him (everyone knows that they'll tag Bowe as a negotiating ploy). His agent would be an idiot to not shop him at this point. Either the Chiefs can pay him their established going rate for a top-level CB (and Carr has a good argument that he's Flowers' equal), or he can go see if someone else out there will. I think we'll be surprised by what he's able to command in free agency. I also think we're going to find out if the Arenas pick was absolutely ghastly or merely underwhelming. __________________ "If there's a god, he's laughing at us.....and our football team..." "When you look at something through rose colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags."
Posts: 66,748

12-05-2011, 01:46 PM	#94
BigChiefFan MVP Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: In the Top 10 Casino cash: $9924205	He's only 25 years old and been very solid. We should re-sign him. I don't think his contract will be near that amount, but it's an interesting scenario. __________________ A 35 year drought can make you thirsty.
Posts: 15,777

12-05-2011, 01:49 PM	#96
Bowser sorta mod-ish Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: KC North Casino cash: $-58384	To Direckshun and the others that think we should not pay that money to one position on the team - Take the money and the bonus Carr would have received and apply it to another free agent target. What position would it be, and who is the player you have in mind?
Posts: 106,673

12-05-2011, 02:15 PM	#99
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $990478	We don't even know how good these corners can be at the moment. If Houston and Hali get a DT/Neil Smith thing working, we're going to rape faces. I'm talking 13-3 and first-round playoff losses, people! __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 296,817

12-05-2011, 02:32 PM	#100
Chief Faithful Predicting Chiefs Victory Join Date: Sep 2001 Casino cash: $9966500	To me the only true definition of a "shut down" corner is the one that is so good other teams avoid. In the case of the Chiefs other teams seem to target Flowers more than Carr so resigning Carr seems to me to be a no brainer.
Posts: 4,315

12-05-2011, 02:37 PM	#102
lcarus Everybody Lies. Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: 22 Acacia Avenue Casino cash: $-1759887	Pay the dude. Seriously. He's been great for us. I'd rather pay him than Dwayne Bowe to be real honest here.
Posts: 17,827

12-05-2011, 03:08 PM	#105
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-532950	Let's see the Chiefs have more money to spend than any other team so they have no excuse. Oh and on top of that, this perception that Flowers is so much better than Carr is ridiculous, watch how teams play us, they treat Carr like he's the better one, far less balls go to his receiver.
Posts: 115,273