News No Charges in Wal-Mart BB Gun Shooting - Page 7

Skyy God · 09-24-2014, 01:38 PM

Watch the video. Dude's just shopping for pet food, swinging a BB gun, and minding his own business. Then, BAM.

Apparently the Dayton PD trains their officers to murder people.

http://www.whio.com/videos/news/walm...ptures/vCtB6Z/

Quote:

A special grand jury called to review evidence in the fatal shooting of John Crawford III, killed by police in an Ohio Walmart while carrying a BB gun from store's shelves, decided today that no officers involved in the shooting will be indicted.

Surveillance video from Crawford's shooting—previously unavailable to the public—shows Crawford walking around the store while talking on the phone, with the BB gun at his side or on his shoulder. The disturbing video then shows an officer rushing toward Crawford with his gun drawn before shooting him.

Though the special grand jury reportedly considered charging the officers with murder, reckless homicide, or negligent homicide, WHIO reports the jury ultimately decided not to indict the officers involved in the shooting, finding their actions were justified.

Vince Pope, attorney for the officers involved in the shooting, released a statement following the decision:

"I believe the grand jury's decision, it's absolutely the right decision, that the officers acted well within their training."

Derrick Foward, president of the Dayton Unit NAACP, also released a statement:

"The Special Grand Jury in Greene County made the wrong decision. It's a sad day in the history of Dayton."

Foward added the NAACP will call for a complete investigation by the U.S. Department of Justice.

http://gawker.com/no-indictments-aga...oot-1638642197

GloucesterChief · 09-24-2014, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRichard

I am curious why several people are blaming the DA when it was taken to the Grand Jury? The Grand Jury is made up of the public.

If anything there should be charges brought against the dipshit who called it in and stated he was aiming it at people.

Considering that the defense is not at a grand jury hearing and the prosecutor gets to selectively present the evidence, the odds are stacked against a defendant.

Either the prosecutor didn't want to indict someone on his team, the jury members have hero syndrome when it comes to cops, or both.

stanleychief · 09-24-2014, 05:22 PM

Just curious, but what is the rule of engagement when approaching a suspect with a loaded weapon? I watched the video with audio and on one hand, I can see that from the information the officers were given, they had to assume this guy had a loaded weapon. They were also informed that he was pointing it at children. I can understand why they would be on high alert going into that situation. Regardless, that doesn't justify the fact that they shot first and then moved in to investigate afterwards.

Is there a law stating that they must give verbal warning to a suspect prior to opening fire or is that purely a judgement call? Seems like an area where ethical and legal responsibilities don't match up.

Start Croyle · 09-24-2014, 05:32 PM

It's tough to say because there's no audio and the framerate of the surveillence video is low, but it looks like he didn't even see the officers coming. It looks like he was facing 90 degrees away from them when they fired.

stanleychief · 09-24-2014, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Start Croyle

It's tough to say because there's no audio and the framerate of the surveillence video is low, but it looks like he didn't even see the officers coming. It looks like he was facing 90 degrees away from them when they fired.

KC Native had posted a better video link earlier in this thread that has audio and multiple cameras: http://www.whio.com/news/news/crime-...rd-case/nhRwM/

However, I believe you are correct. It certainly looks like the suspect was oblivious to the police presence until he was hit with a bullet.

**Baby Lee** · 09-24-2014, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRichard

I am curious why several people are blaming the DA when it was taken to the Grand Jury? The Grand Jury is made up of the public.

If anything there should be charges brought against the dipshit who called it in and stated he was aiming it at people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

Well, that's a good point. I don't know how grand juries work. Who presents the case?

A prosecutor is selected from the DA's office, in high profile cases the DA him/herself presents.

But returns of no bill reflect poorly on a DA and often see the out office for ineffectiveness. That's not even figuring in the high profile and emotional nature of this case. A DA would be playing a high stakes game with their career to rig this particular presentation.

**BigRichard** · 09-24-2014, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stanleychief

KC Native had posted a better video link earlier in this thread that has audio and multiple cameras: http://www.whio.com/news/news/crime-...rd-case/nhRwM/

However, I believe you are correct. It certainly looks like the suspect was oblivious to the police presence until he was hit with a bullet.

Page cannot be found

**BigRichard** · 09-24-2014, 07:04 PM

So what I am seeing in the video (the one without sound) it looks like the poor guy lunged back at the gun for some reason. Was that when the shots were fired or before that. If it was before that looks really bad to me, if it is after he lunges I guess I could see them opening fire. Just a bad thing all around.

**BigRichard** · 09-24-2014, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

A prosecutor is selected from the DA's office, in high profile cases the DA him/herself presents.

But returns of no bill reflect poorly on a DA and often see the out office for ineffectiveness. That's not even figuring in the high profile and emotional nature of this case. A DA would be playing a high stakes game with their career to rig this particular presentation.

I sat on a grand jury for a year and a half. We didn't really see any high profile cases though.

listopencil · 09-24-2014, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRichard

Page cannot be found

Well, from the crappy video linked in the OP, it looks like some guy was hanging out in the dog food aisle of Wal Mart absentmindedly fidgeting with a toy gun. From the corner of his eye he saw a guy running at him with a drawn pistol. He freaked out and tried to run away, dropping the toy and ducking into the next aisle. In the next aisle he saw a second guy running at him pointing a rifle at him. He freaked out some more and started hopping around like a startled deer while obviously unarmed. Was it at this point that SuperCop shot him to death?

stanleychief · 09-24-2014, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRichard

Page cannot be found

Hmm, not sure what happened to the first url. It looks like this one works:

http://www.whio.com/news/news/crime-...rd-case/nhRwM/

stanleychief · 09-24-2014, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by listopencil

Well, from the crappy video linked in the OP, it looks like some guy was hanging out in the dog food aisle of Wal Mart absentmindedly fidgeting with a toy gun. From the corner of his eye he saw a guy running at him with a drawn pistol. He freaked out and tried to run away, dropping the toy and ducking into the next aisle. In the next aisle he saw a second guy running at him pointing a rifle at him. He freaked out some more and started hopping around like a startled deer while obviously unarmed. Was it at this point that SuperCop shot him to death?

When I saw the first video I couldn't clearly tell when the shot was fired. When watching the video with audio, it sounds like the shot is fired before the officers even enter the video frame.

listopencil · 09-24-2014, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stanleychief

Hmm, not sure what happened to the first url. It looks like this one works:

http://www.whio.com/news/news/crime-...rd-case/nhRwM/

Wow. 1)The guy calling in was blatantly lying about him pointing a gun at the two kids. 2) The cop who shot him had cover behind a pallet of kitty litter and should have at least yelled, "Freeze, drop your weapon!" or somesuch before gunning him down.

listopencil · 09-24-2014, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stanleychief

When I saw the first video I couldn't clearly tell when the shot was fired. When watching the video with audio, it sounds like the shot is fired before the officers even enter the video frame.

Yeah, you're right, I thought the same thing.

Valiant · 09-24-2014, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by siberian khatru

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slate...e_charged.html

Ahh, this almost is like the one anti-gunner said he would go around saying people were threatening people with a gun to get a lethal response.

If this person lied to 911 and the officer came in expecting a threat, he needs to be charged. And it is sad the cop was let go without punishment. His decision making should not be on the force.

listopencil · 09-24-2014, 07:39 PM

The cop has cover behind a pallet of Tidy Cats kitty litter.

09-24-2014, 05:22 PM	#92
stanleychief Veteran Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Kansas City, MO Casino cash: $5166254	Just curious, but what is the rule of engagement when approaching a suspect with a loaded weapon? I watched the video with audio and on one hand, I can see that from the information the officers were given, they had to assume this guy had a loaded weapon. They were also informed that he was pointing it at children. I can understand why they would be on high alert going into that situation. Regardless, that doesn't justify the fact that they shot first and then moved in to investigate afterwards. Is there a law stating that they must give verbal warning to a suspect prior to opening fire or is that purely a judgement call? Seems like an area where ethical and legal responsibilities don't match up.
Posts: 1,194

09-24-2014, 05:32 PM	#93
Start Croyle Starter Join Date: Dec 2010 Casino cash: $10016078	It's tough to say because there's no audio and the framerate of the surveillence video is low, but it looks like he didn't even see the officers coming. It looks like he was facing 90 degrees away from them when they fired.
Posts: 575

09-24-2014, 07:04 PM	#97
BigRichard Buddy Christ is a Chiefs fan Join Date: Nov 2008 Casino cash: $1529546	So what I am seeing in the video (the one without sound) it looks like the poor guy lunged back at the gun for some reason. Was that when the shots were fired or before that. If it was before that looks really bad to me, if it is after he lunges I guess I could see them opening fire. Just a bad thing all around. __________________ "You know, they lay down with their ugly wives in front of their ugly children and just look at their loser lives and then they look at me and say, "I CAN'T PROCESS IT!" Well, no, and you never will. Stop trying. Just sit back and enjoy the show .... You know?" Carlos Irwin Estevez
Posts: 10,472

09-24-2014, 07:39 PM	#105
listopencil Immanentize The Eschaton Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: In Partibus Infidelium Casino cash: $1835880	The cop has cover behind a pallet of Tidy Cats kitty litter. __________________ Good friends we have had, oh, good friends we've lost...along the way. In this great future, you can't forget your past. So dry your tears, I say.
Posts: 55,999