Chiefs If this happens, your opinion of Pioli would be... - Page 8

**AustinChief** · 02-07-2012, 01:09 AM

OK let's say Pioli is NOT convinced that Cassel is the only QB for us but can't work out a trade UP for RGIII or Luck. He looks at the free agents and decides they are stop gaps at best. SO...

He either trades way DOWN in the first round and picks a QB (slight reach) or he takes a QB in the second round.

Would that significantly change your opinion of Pioli?

(polli to follow)

WhiteWhale · 02-09-2012, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

The problem is that people obsess over superstars.

Pioli walked onto a team with enormous gaps at C, G, RT, #2 RB, FB, TE #1, K, Nickel Back, WR #2, WR #3, ILB, LOLB, FS, SS, DE #1, NT, QB. Not to mention we had zero depth anywhere.

It's pretty amazing how quickly people forget about that. 3 years later, we cut that list down to 4 (assuming Hudson is an answer at C). RT, #2 RB, NT, QB. And we have an enormous amount of cap space. 2 of those are very easy to fill. As I've said in other posts, Pioli's done a much better job with this team than he gets credit for, but it's those last two moves (particularly at QB) that are going to define his legacy here. And it sure seems like he's pushing to compromise all the good he's done to hitch his wagon to the wrong guy.

This is true. KC has far fewer bad players than they did when he got here.

tredadda · 02-09-2012, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by splatbass

Right, he didn't draft any good players at all. Berry and Moeaki just showed up on their own. Dumbass.

The same Moeaki who has been injured more than he has been healthy? Not exactly a slam dunk pick if he can't see the field. Berry was a no brainer though.

Bump · 02-09-2012, 07:28 AM

if he admits that Cassel was his fail and goes out and trades down to get RG3, I'll respect him for it. If we go into next season with Cassel, Stanzi and some scrub as our only QB's I will hate him forever. If he gets Peyton Manning, I will love him.

ct · 02-09-2012, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

The problem is that people obsess over superstars.

Pioli walked onto a team with enormous gaps at C, G, RT, #2 RB, FB, TE #1, K, Nickel Back, WR #2, WR #3, ILB, LOLB, FS, SS, DE #1, NT, QB. Not to mention we had zero depth anywhere.

It's pretty amazing how quickly people forget about that. 3 years later, we cut that list down to 4 (assuming Hudson is an answer at C). RT, #2 RB, NT, QB. And we have an enormous amount of cap space. 2 of those are very easy to fill. As I've said in other posts, Pioli's done a much better job with this team than he gets credit for, but it's those last two moves (particularly at QB) that are going to define his legacy here. And it sure seems like he's pushing to compromise all the good he's done to hitch his wagon to the wrong guy.

This is a great post, tho most will sadly fall on deaf ears.

Pioli has made a few major gaffes that will blind most everyone to the overall improvements in this team. Todd Haley, Matt Cassel, Tyson Jackson are #1,2,3 for me, and there are other big ones too.

It is definitely the QB position that will make or break him this year. If he sticks w/ Cassel and he flops, I believe he's fired. If he sticks w/ Cassel and we are once again mired in mediocrity, I think he'll stay, but he will be forced to make a change, and we're having this same conversation next Jan-Apr.

I'll be honest, I don't even see a best case trying to play out this year. Matt Cassel will be our starting QB. Best of the worst cases is Cassel flops and Stanzi takes over and shows a little potential.

Chiefnj2 · 02-09-2012, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

The problem is that people obsess over superstars.

Pioli walked onto a team with enormous gaps at C, G, RT, #2 RB, FB, TE #1, K, Nickel Back, WR #2, WR #3, ILB, LOLB, FS, SS, DE #1, NT, QB. Not to mention we had zero depth anywhere.

It's pretty amazing how quickly people forget about that. 3 years later, we cut that list down to 4 (assuming Hudson is an answer at C). RT, #2 RB, NT, QB. And we have an enormous amount of cap space. 2 of those are very easy to fill. As I've said in other posts, Pioli's done a much better job with this team than he gets credit for, but it's those last two moves (particularly at QB) that are going to define his legacy here. And it sure seems like he's pushing to compromise all the good he's done to hitch his wagon to the wrong guy.

C - Went from Niswanger to Weigman/Hudson - clearly an improvement. +
G - Went from Waters to Lilja - downgrade. -
G - Jones/Smith to Asamoah - Too early to tell. His run blocking is horrible. Inc.
RT - McIntosh to Richardson - still a big hole. -
QB - Thigpen to Cassel - still a big hole, at the most important position. -
#2 RB - Johnson/Charles/Battle to Charles/Jones/Battle - #2 HB still not filled. -

FB - who cares. not utilized enough to make a difference.

TE #1 - TG to Moeaki - downgrade. Some may disagree, but I categorize it as a still needs to be filled because of Moeaki's injury history.

WR 2 - Bradley to Breaston. Clear upgrade. +
WR 3 - Darling to Baldwin. Technically too early, but give Baldwin the benefit. +

I get 3 clear improvements (C, WR2, WR3)

1 too early to tell (RG)

5 downgrades or still need to fill the position.

**The Franchise** · 02-09-2012, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCharles1981

Let's see if your statement holds up:

2009

Scott Pioli hired as Chiefs' new General Manager in 2009, brought in former Patriots Defensive Coordinator Romeo Cremmel to be the Chiefs' new DC, and former Arizona Cardinals OC as Head Coach. Haley fired pre-season OC just before the 2009-2010 season began; did double duty as Head Coach and Offensive Coordinator.

Result: Chiefs finished at 4-12.

2010

Scott Pioli appointed former Notre Dame Head Coach Charlie Weis as the Chiefs' new Offensive Coordinator, kept Haley as Head Coach and Crennel as DC.

Result: Chiefs finished at 10-6, winning the AFC West. Unfortunately, they were upset by the Colts in the first round of the playoffs.

2011

After Weis moved to Miami to coach college football again, Pioli approved Todd Haley's decision to hire Mike Muir to be the Chiefs' third regular season offensive coordinator in four years (not counting the year Todd Haley was both the HC and OC). Prior to the regular season, Muir had not called an offensive play professionally.

Result: Chiefs finished at 7-9, with 8 of those losses being under HC Todd Haley. Despite their efforts in defeating the Broncos in week 17, it wasn't enough to knock them out of the playoffs since the Raiders lost their final season game in the process.

Final Review: Scott Pioli has tons of improving before showing himself worthy of being a better GM than Carl Peterson.

Ummmm.....what?

Sofa King · 02-09-2012, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

C - Went from Niswanger to Weigman/Hudson - clearly an improvement. +
G - Went from Waters to Lilja - downgrade. -
G - Jones/Smith to Asamoah - Too early to tell. His run blocking is horrible. Inc.
RT - McIntosh to Richardson - still a big hole. -
QB - Thigpen to Cassel - still a big hole, at the most important position. -
#2 RB - Johnson/Charles/Battle to Charles/Jones/Battle - #2 HB still not filled. -

FB - who cares. not utilized enough to make a difference.

TE #1 - TG to Moeaki - downgrade. Some may disagree, but I categorize it as a still needs to be filled because of Moeaki's injury history.

WR 2 - Bradley to Breaston. Clear upgrade. +
WR 3 - Darling to Baldwin. Technically too early, but give Baldwin the benefit. +

I get 3 clear improvements (C, WR2, WR3)

1 too early to tell (RG)

5 downgrades or still need to fill the position.

How many of those downgrades are the clear result of a player getting older and his play declining, and TG's was one where he didn't want to be around for the rebuilding (not scotts fault). And Moeaki if healthy is very good. hardly a - considering TG was leaving no matter what.

And jesus, you have us going from Johnson to Charles as a ****ing - ????? Are you shitting me??

Chiefnj2 · 02-09-2012, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sofa King

How many of those downgrades are the clear result of a player getting older and his play declining, and TG's was one where he didn't want to be around for the rebuilding (not scotts fault). And Moeaki if healthy is very good. hardly a - considering TG was leaving no matter what.

And jesus, you have us going from Johnson to Charles as a ****ing - ????? Are you shitting me??

The three RBs haven't improved - It was Charles/Johnson/Battle then, and now it is Charles/Jones/Battle. See, two are the same. Get it. Jones v. Johnson, Johnson probably gets the edge since he didn't beat any #1 picks into missing half the year.

Micjones · 02-09-2012, 10:48 AM

I'll be happy if he drafts Tannehill or Foles.
Trying and failing is better than not trying at all.

**bevischief** · 02-09-2012, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCharles1981

Let's see if your statement holds up:

2009

Scott Pioli hired as Chiefs' new General Manager in 2009, brought in former Patriots Defensive Coordinator Romeo Cremmel to be the Chiefs' new DC, and former Arizona Cardinals OC as Head Coach. Haley fired pre-season OC just before the 2009-2010 season began; did double duty as Head Coach and Offensive Coordinator.

Result: Chiefs finished at 4-12.

2010

Scott Pioli appointed former Notre Dame Head Coach Charlie Weis as the Chiefs' new Offensive Coordinator, kept Haley as Head Coach and Crennel as DC.

Result: Chiefs finished at 10-6, winning the AFC West. Unfortunately, they were upset by the Colts in the first round of the playoffs.

2011

After Weis moved to Miami to coach college football again, Pioli approved Todd Haley's decision to hire Mike Muir to be the Chiefs' third regular season offensive coordinator in four years (not counting the year Todd Haley was both the HC and OC). Prior to the regular season, Muir had not called an offensive play professionally.

Result: Chiefs finished at 7-9, with 8 of those losses being under HC Todd Haley. Despite their efforts in defeating the Broncos in week 17, it wasn't enough to knock them out of the playoffs since the Raiders lost their final season game in the process.

Final Review: Scott Pioli has tons of improving before showing himself worthy of being a better GM than Carl Peterson.

wtf?

Chiefnj2 · 02-09-2012, 11:00 AM

Can the mods please tell us whose mult JCharles1981 is?

crazycoffey · 02-09-2012, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Can the mods please tell us whose mult JCharles1981 is?

I was thinking the same thing.

Imon Yourside · 02-09-2012, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micjones

I'll be happy if he drafts Tannehill or Foles.
Trying and failing is better than not trying at all.

What does trying to fail count for?

suds79 · 02-09-2012, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KILLER_CLOWN

What does trying to fail count for?

He didn't say trying to fail.

Agreed that would be bad.

He said trying and (possibly) failing is better than not trying at all. Something this franchise has perfected over the years.

whoman69 · 02-09-2012, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micjones

I'll be happy if he drafts Tannehill or Foles.
Trying and failing is better than not trying at all.

Depends where he gets them. If he reaches with a first when we could have had an actual first rounder, then its desperation. Those two are not first round talents.

View Poll Results: If Pioli takes a QB in the late 1st or 2nd, my opinion of him would be...
I still hate him regardless	9	5.84%
It depends entirely on the QB taken	64	41.56%
I like him better because at least he gave it a shot at drafting a QB	73	47.40%
I only have eyes for Gaz	8	5.19%
Voters: 154. You may not vote on this poll

02-07-2012, 01:09 AM
AustinChief Administrator Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Austin Casino cash: $-604998	If this happens, your opinion of Pioli would be... OK let's say Pioli is NOT convinced that Cassel is the only QB for us but can't work out a trade UP for RGIII or Luck. He looks at the free agents and decides they are stop gaps at best. SO... He either trades way DOWN in the first round and picks a QB (slight reach) or he takes a QB in the second round. Would that significantly change your opinion of Pioli? (polli to follow)
Posts: 20,005

02-09-2012, 07:28 AM	#108
Bump YOU take YOUR seat Join Date: Nov 2007 Casino cash: $-1524895	if he admits that Cassel was his fail and goes out and trades down to get RG3, I'll respect him for it. If we go into next season with Cassel, Stanzi and some scrub as our only QB's I will hate him forever. If he gets Peyton Manning, I will love him.
Posts: 38,136

02-09-2012, 10:48 AM	#114
Micjones Whose house? Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: KCMO Casino cash: $10005180	I'll be happy if he drafts Tannehill or Foles. Trying and failing is better than not trying at all. __________________ It's like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I could been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong.
Posts: 15,344

02-09-2012, 11:00 AM	#116
Chiefnj2 In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Casino cash: $6664388	Can the mods please tell us whose mult JCharles1981 is? __________________ Mismanaging the clock.
Posts: 22,540