Thanks! And thoughts on the final draft grade?

[JPH83]

Just wanted to give a hat tip to a few people here for their work over the draft season.

Dante for the visits tracker and insane work on getting info on the picks up so quickly

Crow for the immense detail and knowledge provided on prospects. I always learn stuff from you each year. Much appreciated.

Staylor for the mock draft. Amazed we made it, thanks for putting in the effort to keep it on the road man

Coach for starting loads of interesting threads to ponder and general enthusiasm for all things draft. You seem like a real solid dude as well.

And then there's a load of you who know loads more than I do about scheme fits and specific skillsets etc.which includes those above, but also DJ, Duncan, Chris Meck, Run...probably loads of others.

Thanks all, I really enjoy this time of year, and I'm pretty happy with how this year's draft has gone. Reckon I'd give it an -A. What do you think?

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by fuzzy

I have got the 2027 season mentally marked down for Simmons. The 2025 season will likely be a redshirt year where he focuses on gaining the strength and mobility back in his leg. 2026 will essentially be his rookie season where he gets his feet wet against NFL caliber pass rushers. And 2027 will be the year of truth.

Check back in 3 years when Simmons proves to be the franchise Left Tackle for the remainder of Mahomes career.

Or, check back in three years when the knee has prevented him from being a valid NFL starter, he’s struggling to make the roster, and buffoons are still complaining Veach hasn’t done enough to fix LT.

[fuzzy]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Or, check back in three years when the knee has prevented him from being a valid NFL starter, he’s struggling to make the roster, and buttons are still complaining Veach hasn’t done enough to fix LT.

I hate this post. The knee will recover.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by fuzzy

I hate this post. The knee will recover.

I hope it does.

But that’s all we have right now. Hope.

[SAGA45]

Originally Posted by kccrow

This has been the response by 99% of this board despite the fact that the entire population of players with this injury was compiled to show the risk. I shared it with everyone, and yet the general response remains the same. It's not people overplaying the risk, it is the risk. It's not a representative sample of some segment of players with this injury, it is the entire population. It's like, you can't really refute it. It is it.

Originally Posted by SAGA45

Here's the thing...Do you actually feel like you presented information that the CHIEFS didn't already know about, though? I'm not questioning the study itself. It's that you and a handful of others champion this study as if you stumbled on information that Burkholder and his staff weren't already aware of and hadnt already taken into account throughout their - from all accounts - meticulous evaluation process of Simmons' knee and his recovery progress.

It's one thing to prop up the study as a reason why YOU would personally pass on Simmons leading UP TO the draft. I get and got that part of it just fine. But now that the Chiefs have signed off on his rate of recovery by drafting him, that stance seems pretty weak and borders on you basically saying "Burkholder and his staff dont know wtf their doing! Meanwhile, I actually know wtf Im talking about!" ...which absolutely insane to me.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Literally nobody has said that.

Well, until...

Originally Posted by kccrow

Yep. He doesn't even have a PhD. He's a MS in Athletic Training and has load of experience as an athletic trainer. Do I see him as qualified to give a sound opinion? Yes, for sure.

His opinion doesn't give me more optimism though. There's 25 years of sound data that tells me his opinion really doesn't matter. Only Simmons' body is going to matter.

So, Burkholder's opinion doesn't matter despite the fact Brett Veach leaned on it and that he and his team have been entrusted with/ are responsible for the design and oversight of Simmons' continued rehab/recovery, ultimately affecting how his body responds and continues to heal? That's crazy!

I'm kidding. Seriously, I get what you're trying to say...that in the end, regardless of what anyone thinks (Burkholder included), it's Simmons' body against unfavorable odds per the data. However, my point is that the same data was no doubt factored into the Chiefs' examination of his knee and the ultimate decision to draft him.

Now, does that mean they KNOW he'll defy those odds? No, it does not, nor does it mean they made the right choice, as only time will bear that out. Nonetheless, Burkholder (despite his academic shortcomings ) and his staff are LEGIT and held in high esteem both inside and outside of league circles for a reason. They also know more about Simmons' healing than will ever be publicly disclosed other than reports he's ahead of schedule. So, for them to feel good enough about Simmons medically to take him at 32, to me, speaks volumes.

To DJ's point earlier, this isn't to say Burkholder and the Chiefs are infallible. They've definitely been wrong where we've been right. However, that does not mean our guess (or projection as Duncan stated before) is as good as theirs because, unlike ours, their projections/guesses, both in terms of the sports medicine side and player eval side, are backed by and based on first-hand, boots-to-ground experience and knowledge in their respective fields that spans decades, collectively culminating in five Super Bowl appearances in six years with three wins including a back-to-back..

One would think that fact alone would buy the Chiefs the benefit of the doubt here but hey to each his own. I respect and understand the opinions of those who just simply don't feel good about Simmons. The history of the injury supports your angst and concerns. Nevertheless, I feel like he's in highly qualified and capable hands thus I'm a bit more optimistic that the pick actually pans out.

[MahomesMagic]

Originally Posted by SAGA45

Well, until...



So, Burkholder's opinion doesn't matter despite the fact Brett Veach leaned on it and that he and his team have been entrusted with/ are responsible for the design and oversight of Simmons' continued rehab/recovery, ultimately affecting how his body responds and continues to heal? That's crazy!

I'm kidding. Seriously, I get what you're trying to say...that in the end, regardless of what anyone thinks (Burkholder included), it's Simmons' body against unfavorable odds per the data. However, my point is that the same data was no doubt factored into the Chiefs' examination of his knee and the ultimate decision to draft him.

Now, does that mean they KNOW he'll defy those odds? No, it does not, nor does it mean they made the right choice, as only time will bear that out. Nonetheless, Burkholder (despite his academic shortcomings ) and his staff are LEGIT and held in high esteem both inside and outside of league circles for a reason. They also know more about Simmons' healing than will ever be publicly disclosed other than reports he's ahead of schedule. So, for them to feel good enough about Simmons medically to take him at 32, to me, speaks volumes.

To DJ's point earlier, this isn't to say Burkholder and the Chiefs are infallible. They've definitely been wrong where we've been right. However, that does not mean our guess (or projection as Duncan stated before) is as good as theirs because, unlike ours, their projections/guesses, both in terms of the sports medicine side and player eval side, are backed by and based on first-hand, boots-to-ground experience and knowledge in their respective fields that spans decades, collectively culminating in five Super Bowl appearances in six years with three wins including a back-to-back..

One would think that fact alone would buy the Chiefs the benefit of the doubt here but hey to each his own. I respect and understand the opinions of those who just simply don't feel good about Simmons. The history of the injury supports your angst and concerns. Nevertheless, I feel like he's in highly qualified and capable hands thus I'm a bit more optimistic that the pick actually pans out.

Exactly.


You can't factor in guys from 25 years ago or dudes who not only blew out their patellar tendon but had other things break too.

There is no way the Chiefs would use even a low 1st round pick on a guy they believed had a 75% chance of busting completely on medical alone.

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by SAGA45

Well, until...

So, Burkholder's opinion doesn't matter despite the fact Brett Veach leaned on it and that he and his team have been entrusted with/ are responsible for the design and oversight of Simmons' continued rehab/recovery, ultimately affecting how his body responds and continues to heal? That's crazy!

I'm kidding. Seriously, I get what you're trying to say...that in the end, regardless of what anyone thinks (Burkholder included), it's Simmons' body against unfavorable odds per the data. However, my point is that the same data was no doubt factored into the Chiefs' examination of his knee and the ultimate decision to draft him.

Now, does that mean they KNOW he'll defy those odds? No, it does not, nor does it mean they made the right choice, as only time will bear that out. Nonetheless, Burkholder (despite his academic shortcomings ) and his staff are LEGIT and held in high esteem both inside and outside of league circles for a reason. They also know more about Simmons' healing than will ever be publicly disclosed other than reports he's ahead of schedule. So, for them to feel good enough about Simmons medically to take him at 32, to me, speaks volumes.

To DJ's point earlier, this isn't to say Burkholder and the Chiefs are infallible. They've definitely been wrong where we've been right. However, that does not mean our guess (or projection as Duncan stated before) is as good as theirs because, unlike ours, their projections/guesses, both in terms of the sports medicine side and player eval side, are backed by and based on first-hand, boots-to-ground experience and knowledge in their respective fields that spans decades, collectively culminating in five Super Bowl appearances in six years with three wins including a back-to-back..

One would think that fact alone would buy the Chiefs the benefit of the doubt here but hey to each his own. I respect and understand the opinions of those who just simply don't feel good about Simmons. The history of the injury supports your angst and concerns. Nevertheless, I feel like he's in highly qualified and capable hands thus I'm a bit more optimistic that the pick actually pans out.

I'm glad you understood what I was trying to relay, and this point hits it on the head. The history does not support the Chiefs, Burkholder, Simmons, etc. It just simply doesn't. We have to hope he beats those odds.

The real point of it is, the Chiefs took an enormous risk regardless of who gave what opinion. That's a franchise-altering pick if it does or does not work out.

Originally Posted by MahomesMagic

Exactly.


You can't factor in guys from 25 years ago or dudes who not only blew out their patellar tendon but had other things break too.

There is no way the Chiefs would use even a low 1st round pick on a guy they believed had a 75% chance of busting completely on medical alone.

You never looked at the data. The data is up to 2 years ago, and I can tell you recency hasn't made things any better. The past 2 seasons haven't seen any further increases in the likelihood of the injury being something most players can overcome. None. I don't know what's so hard to understand there.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by kccrow

The real point of it is, the Chiefs took an enormous risk regardless of who gave what opinion. That's a franchise-altering pick if it does or does not work out.

Nah. It's really not that huge of a deal if it doesn't work out.

FAU didn't alter the franchise. Clyde didn't crater their fortunes. If Simmons can't return to form, it's a bummer, but we draft well enough to overcome it. There's just too much evidence there to get too bent out of shape about it for me.

It's not a risk I wanted to take, but being here now, I see the thinking.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by SAGA45

A choice based on intimate medical information none of us will ever be privy to as well as their collective experience and expertise, particularly Burkholder's. That's enough to be optimistic for some. All that's left to do now is wait and see.

I hope they are right. For sure. And I will be THRILLED to be wrong on this. Absolutely thrilled.

But I'm going to be nervous until we see him playing in a real game/real action, and I'm probably going to be nervous about reinjury/injuring other parts of his body/chronic injuries until we have a decent sample of him playing.

I hope they can get him on the field this year/he forces his way onto the field this year, so he can start answering those questions.

[Couch-Potato]

#1 ESPN Power Rankings:

1. Kansas City Chiefs

Post-free agency ranking: 1

Most improved position: Wide receiver

The Chiefs are counting on the return of two top receivers who missed most of last season with injuries. Rashee Rice led the league with 24 catches through the first three games before a season-ending knee injury, while Hollywood Brown played in only two regular-season games because of a sternoclavicular injury. Rice and Brown will combine with Xavier Worthy to give the Chiefs a potent group of wideouts. With the selection of fourth-rounder Jalen Royals, Kansas City also added speed and run-after-the-catch ability on the outside. -- Adam Teicher

[smithandrew051]

Wide receiver probably is the most improved position, but you could argue for CB as well.

[SAGA45]

Originally Posted by Couch-Potato

#1 ESPN Power Rankings:

1. Kansas City Chiefs

Post-free agency ranking: 1

Most improved position: Wide receiver

The Chiefs are counting on the return of two top receivers who missed most of last season with injuries. Rashee Rice led the league with 24 catches through the first three games before a season-ending knee injury, while Hollywood Brown played in only two regular-season games because of a sternoclavicular injury. Rice and Brown will combine with Xavier Worthy to give the Chiefs a potent group of wideouts. With the selection of fourth-rounder Jalen Royals, Kansas City also added speed and run-after-the-catch ability on the outside. -- Adam Teicher

No argument there. The prospect of having Rice, Worthy, and Hollywood in the lineup together should have Reid and Mahomes salivating. Jalen Royals adds some pretty incredible depth. If all are healthy together, knock on wood, the Chiefs offense is going to be hell to defend against.

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Nah. It's really not that huge of a deal if it doesn't work out.

FAU didn't alter the franchise. Clyde didn't crater their fortunes. If Simmons can't return to form, it's a bummer, but we draft well enough to overcome it. There's just too much evidence there to get too bent out of shape about it for me.

It's not a risk I wanted to take, but being here now, I see the thinking.

I firmly disagree because it's another year of having inadequate protection for Mahomes. It's just another area we couldn't address with a premium player and it forces their hand in FA.

Missing on pillar positions sets the franchise back, especially as the core ages.

If we didn't miss on FAU, would we have had to spend 7m to retain Omenihu? And if not Omenihu, do we need to spend a high 3rd on Gillotte instead of another area like getting a premium RB or adding another S, etc?

Missing, especially on high picks, absolutely matters.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by smithandrew051

Wide receiver probably is the most improved position, but you could argue for CB as well.

You’ve seen some comment on it, but I don’t think the average analyst is paying attention to the Chiefs’ focus on ensuring they can use McDuffie in the slot again.

The additions of Fulton and Nohl Williams should be pretty big, there. You have two good, proven outside corners in Fulton and Watson, and an elite-elite slot. And now you have some depth, hopefully, with Williams that you feel comfortable with if Fulton or Watson is dinged.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by kccrow

I firmly disagree because it's another year of having inadequate protection for Mahomes. It's just another area we couldn't address with a premium player and it forces their hand in FA.

Missing on pillar positions sets the franchise back, especially as the core ages.

If we didn't miss on FAU, would we have had to spend 7m to retain Omenihu? And if not Omenihu, do we need to spend a high 3rd on Gillotte instead of another area like getting a premium RB or adding another S, etc?

Missing, especially on high picks, absolutely matters.

It's an aggregate.

Get shot in the arm -- that's probably not fatal. Get shot in both arms -- probably still okay.

But man, you take 7 'non-fatal' wounds and sooner or later you're gonna bleed out.

Nobody's saying THIS would be the tipping point. But sooner or later we WILL find out what that tipping point is if we just blasting holes in ourselves.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by kccrow

I firmly disagree because it's another year of having inadequate protection for Mahomes. It's just another area we couldn't address with a premium player and it forces their hand in FA.

Missing on pillar positions sets the franchise back, especially as the core ages.

If we didn't miss on FAU, would we have had to spend 7m to retain Omenihu? And if not Omenihu, do we need to spend a high 3rd on Gillotte instead of another area like getting a premium RB or adding another S, etc?

Missing, especially on high picks, absolutely matters.

Well, we signed Moore. He should be adequate. Surely we're not COUNTING on Simmons right away, although I think as soon as he's at full strength, they should give it a go. We need to find out what's what.

I agree missing on pillar positions is less than ideal, but it is what it is. I don't think a miss on Simmons puts us out of contention or anything. Consider this- Simmons busts, but Royals shows enough to feel confident in letting Brown walk after this season. We've got 3 plus WR's on rookie deals. That buys you an awful lot of leeway elsewhere.