Tony Gonzalez opens up on Herm with both barrels - Page 9

Hammock Parties · 12-02-2007, 11:04 PM

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chi...ry/387172.html

Chiefs can’t come back against Chargers
By ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star

The Chiefs lost their ability to make enough plays to win close games some time ago. They ran out of explanations shortly afterward.

Now they’re just plain out of gas. They trailed by a mere touchdown for most of the second half of Sunday’s game against San Diego at Arrowhead Stadium, but they might have played until midnight without getting that elusive tying score.

So they wound up losing 24-10, and the defeat pushed the 4-8 Chiefs to the brink of extinction in what passes for a race in the AFC West. They’re officially done if they lose to the Broncos in Denver next week.

The Chiefs tried their usual formula — keep things close until the fourth quarter and make the plays to win it then. It worked for them earlier in the season but again failed on Sunday when they were shut out in the final quarter for the fourth straight game.

“I’m tired of it and don’t want to play this style of football,” Chiefs tight end Tony Gonzalez said. “It’s not what I’m into. I don’t think Herm (Edwards) wants to. We want to win. Let’s get it over with. I don’t want to keep the game close until the second half because we’re a second-half team. That’s bull. Let’s just go out there and win a football game.

“Let’s get rid of that stress. I’m tired of it. I’m sitting on the sideline thinking, ‘Here we go again.’ You can’t help but let those thoughts creep into your mind.”

That crisis of confidence was evident Sunday. Their seven-point deficit for most of the second half felt to them like a lot more.

Things got so bad for the offense that its only touchdown was scored by defensive end Jared Allen, who played on the goal-line ostensibly for blocking purposes. And Allen had to make a great catch of Damon Huard’s fade pass to do it.

“When you’re desperate,” Edwards said, “you do desperate things.”

Edwards hasn’t been desperate enough to change his philosophy on how to win. He defended it again Sunday, saying it’s the only way the Chiefs have a chance.

“We made plays (to win some early-season games),” Edwards said, referring to wins over Minnesota, San Diego and Oakland, all games the Chiefs salvaged in the fourth quarter. “That’s how we won.

“We have to play a certain way. We try to do that to protect the quarterback and make sure we can throw the ball. You have all of these fancy ideas there at the end and there are certain things we’re stuck with because of how we have to play.

“That’s OK. You can still win games that way. We just can’t get behind like that because that just puts you in a bad, bad way.”

The burden of keeping the game close fell to the defense, which again caved in. LaDainian Tomlinson rushed for 117 yards and two touchdowns in the second half.

“We know they’re going to make plays, realistically,” Allen said. “But to (heck) with that. Our mind-set has to be that they won’t make any plays. When stuff like that becomes acceptable, and all of a sudden you find yourself saying, ‘Oh, here we go again,’ that’s when the same (stuff) happens. That’s what’s been happening.

“We need to change the mind-set around here. The mind-set has got to be that this is not acceptable to lose at home. It’s not acceptable to be 10-10 at halftime and lose 24-10.”

The marvel regarding the Chiefs is not the five-game losing streak, their longest since 2000, or the five Arrowhead losses, most since they also lost five in 2001.

It’s that with this team — even with its numerous and obvious flaws — they won four of five games earlier in the season.

“Even then, we had some issues,” guard Brian Waters said. “When you look at games like Chicago and Houston, we had a couple of opportunities to come back in those games as well.

“We’ve started slowly in some parts of the season and now we’re not finishing the way we were. Really, we’re just trying to find a complete game.”

RedThat · 12-03-2007, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX

I don't see Gonzo opening up on Herm. Just venting and stating the obvious. Nobody's very happy right now. But Herm was hired as Head Coach and the Head Coach takes the heat when things suck. And, things suck. A lot.

The oline is where the bleeding is worse. I think it's interesting that Herm decided at some point that these guys were serviceable. Doubly interesting is the fact that a good HC along with a good OC can compensate for a marginal oline through the use of plays that maximize their abilities while minimizing the potential for mistakes.

But no. We can't do that. Instead, we scale back the offensive game plan to such a predictable level that enemy defenses know what we're going to run before the ball is snapped. We scale back the playbook to 3 plays. We start a quarterback whose skills are so limited, the enemy only has to watch 15 minutes of tape on the guy to understand his tendencies.

And we do this game after game. Over and over. Until finally, everyone can see what we really are. Garbage. And, what does Herm do? Does he take responsibility? Does he institute changes early enough to make a legitimate effort to save the season? Does he declare "rebuild" and bring in the young players? No. He does none of that.

He blames the players - knowing full well that there will be people who pull out the "coaches don't catch passes" card. He blames the OC for being new on the job - knowing full well that he chose him for the position. And, he blames the team for "not making plays in the fourth quarter" - knowing full well that they are incapable of recovering from a deficit under his system.

I wish I could believe in Herm's plan. Maybe someday he'll spell it out so I can believe. Until then, it looks like he's making it up as he goes along and covering his ass along the way.

FAX

Two words: Insanity and stupidity

kcxiv · 12-03-2007, 02:16 AM

This is what i have noticed They start off the games pretty well. Then when the Defense see's the offense isnt going to do a damn thing again. They lose focus.

Herm as someone said puts self doubt in the offense. This team is just bad. Why oh why do Herman Edwards football teams suffer from tons of injuries.

I know why the QB's do. His ****ed up play calling. Then he puts his QB's in obvious passing situations and its like hitting a baseball off a tee.

**Tribal Warfare** · 12-03-2007, 02:41 AM

Quote:

“I’m tired of it and don’t want to play this style of football,” Chiefs tight end Tony Gonzalez said. “It’s not what I’m into. I don’t think Herm (Edwards) wants to. We want to win. Let’s get it over with. I don’t want to keep the game close until the second half because we’re a second-half team. That’s bull. Let’s just go out there and win a football game.

“Let’s get rid of that stress. I’m tired of it. I’m sitting on the sideline thinking, ‘Here we go again.’ You can’t help but let those thoughts creep into your mind.”

This comment was directed to the entire offensive coaching staff

**Mr. Flopnuts** · 12-03-2007, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler

I don't think you will get any disagreement on any of that zouk.

My only problem is that either Herm is stupid or incompetent if he thought this O-Line was half way decent. Either way he should be fired for it.

He doesn't shop for the groceries, he just cooks them. This is Carl's line. This is Carl's team. The last 2 drafts are the only places Herm has had any say what so ever.

Mecca · 12-03-2007, 03:13 AM

Look, I said before this year and still to this day believe the Chiefs are a largely untalented team that no coaching will overcome. The problem is we have the wrong people leading this "rebuilding".

1. We have a coach who I believe if he had New Englands offensive talent we'd average no more than 20 a game and he'd be repeatedly screaming at the QB for changing plays and scoring to fast...he has actually done this before in NY.

2. We have a GM who at his heart doesn't want to rebuild. Signing Edwards, LJ moves like that are not rebuilding moves. It's like I call it, halfass rebuilding.

The Chiefs can be ready to compete probably in 3-4 years if it's done right, I just have no trust in the team to do it right.

Also anyone who points out the defense is #9..answer these questions...how many holes does it still have..answer a lot due to shittyness and age...how many times has it folded in 2nd halfs...at home...

The defense is further a long than the offense but it is nowhere close to being a finished product either, this team just by in large lacks talent but it also has an incompetent coaching staff fueled by a GM who will almost undoubtedly go out and sign FA's to win 8 games when in reality they shouldn't heavily play the market this year..

If the Chiefs finish 4-12.....they can draft 2 starting OT's.....a guard in the 4th and probably a corner in the 3rd.......I'd probably try to sign Bryant Johnson so Kennison and Parker are both gone...but there is no need to spend 100 million dollars in FA this year when they can get younger players in the draft to do the same thing.

kcxiv · 12-03-2007, 04:04 AM

IMO, the Defense is close to being a finished product. They have been pretty damned good all year considering how piss poor our Defense is.

Mecca · 12-03-2007, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcxiv

IMO, the Defense is close to being a finished product. They have been pretty damned good all year considering how piss poor our Defense is.

There's to much age to be close to being finished consider this.....both corners will need to be replaced probably after this year..MLB and 1 OLB need to be replaced.....and we still need a DT.

kcxiv · 12-03-2007, 04:08 AM

You can play with older players. **** look at New England they are pretty good, and they got some old folks there, but they have good players in key areas.

Vrabel is old, Bruschi is old. Seau is old, Harrison is old. thats some good age right there.

Mecca · 12-03-2007, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcxiv

You can play with older players. **** look at New England they are pretty good, and they got some old folks there, but they have good players in key areas.

Vrabel is old, Bruschi is old. Seau is old, Harrison is old. thats some good age right there.

Those old guys are still productive...it also doesn't hurt to stand behind the best Dline in the league that has a ton of 1st round picks on it.

We can do that too if we get a Line comparable to NE's.

kcxiv · 12-03-2007, 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Those old guys are still productive...it also doesn't hurt to stand behind the best Dline in the league that has a ton of 1st round picks on it.

We can do that too if we get a Line comparable to NE's.

Thats what the Chiefs are working on. To get the Dline to be very good. Thats why they drafted 2 young guys this year. WE all know it all starts up front. Donnie imo is just as good as any of NE's LB'ers right now. We serously need corners though. I do like Brackenridge though. I think he's going to be a starter very soon.

This defense is close. Not quite there, but its damned close.

Gravedigger · 12-03-2007, 06:05 AM

Completely calling out Mike Solari saying he's a stress I love it.

chagrin · 12-03-2007, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boogblaster

Good for you Gonzo ... Frickin' Herm.. 60s style-ball ...

Remember Guntha's run, run, run, then pass offense? The one that Elvis threw for 3,000 and 4,000 yards in? Gunther may have drafted like shit but he got more out of his shitty drafts than Herm has gotten out of his good drafts.
Not at all saying Gunther should have stayed or should return, just comparing them.

FringeNC · 12-03-2007, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by splatbass

He scaled back the offense because they don't have the talent to run a more complicated offense.

Al Saunders couldn't win with this offensive line.

You've got it backwards. You run a complicated offense when you don't have the personnel to dominate -- which applies to every team in the league with the possible exception of New England.

**HemiEd** · 12-03-2007, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRock

How is it "opening up" on Herm when he says "I don't want to play this style of football and I don't think Herm wants to"? Isn't that opening up on Solari?

I agree, and it was only one barrel.

mikey23545 · 12-03-2007, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk13

This thread is exactly why this board is almost unreadable anymore.

Absolutely.

I can't believe what it has become.

12-02-2007, 11:04 PM
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $1000478	Tony Gonzalez opens up on Herm with both barrels http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chi...ry/387172.html Chiefs can’t come back against Chargers By ADAM TEICHER The Kansas City Star The Chiefs lost their ability to make enough plays to win close games some time ago. They ran out of explanations shortly afterward. Now they’re just plain out of gas. They trailed by a mere touchdown for most of the second half of Sunday’s game against San Diego at Arrowhead Stadium, but they might have played until midnight without getting that elusive tying score. So they wound up losing 24-10, and the defeat pushed the 4-8 Chiefs to the brink of extinction in what passes for a race in the AFC West. They’re officially done if they lose to the Broncos in Denver next week. The Chiefs tried their usual formula — keep things close until the fourth quarter and make the plays to win it then. It worked for them earlier in the season but again failed on Sunday when they were shut out in the final quarter for the fourth straight game. “I’m tired of it and don’t want to play this style of football,” Chiefs tight end Tony Gonzalez said. “It’s not what I’m into. I don’t think Herm (Edwards) wants to. We want to win. Let’s get it over with. I don’t want to keep the game close until the second half because we’re a second-half team. That’s bull. Let’s just go out there and win a football game. “Let’s get rid of that stress. I’m tired of it. I’m sitting on the sideline thinking, ‘Here we go again.’ You can’t help but let those thoughts creep into your mind.” That crisis of confidence was evident Sunday. Their seven-point deficit for most of the second half felt to them like a lot more. Things got so bad for the offense that its only touchdown was scored by defensive end Jared Allen, who played on the goal-line ostensibly for blocking purposes. And Allen had to make a great catch of Damon Huard’s fade pass to do it. “When you’re desperate,” Edwards said, “you do desperate things.” Edwards hasn’t been desperate enough to change his philosophy on how to win. He defended it again Sunday, saying it’s the only way the Chiefs have a chance. “We made plays (to win some early-season games),” Edwards said, referring to wins over Minnesota, San Diego and Oakland, all games the Chiefs salvaged in the fourth quarter. “That’s how we won. “We have to play a certain way. We try to do that to protect the quarterback and make sure we can throw the ball. You have all of these fancy ideas there at the end and there are certain things we’re stuck with because of how we have to play. “That’s OK. You can still win games that way. We just can’t get behind like that because that just puts you in a bad, bad way.” The burden of keeping the game close fell to the defense, which again caved in. LaDainian Tomlinson rushed for 117 yards and two touchdowns in the second half. “We know they’re going to make plays, realistically,” Allen said. “But to (heck) with that. Our mind-set has to be that they won’t make any plays. When stuff like that becomes acceptable, and all of a sudden you find yourself saying, ‘Oh, here we go again,’ that’s when the same (stuff) happens. That’s what’s been happening. “We need to change the mind-set around here. The mind-set has got to be that this is not acceptable to lose at home. It’s not acceptable to be 10-10 at halftime and lose 24-10.” The marvel regarding the Chiefs is not the five-game losing streak, their longest since 2000, or the five Arrowhead losses, most since they also lost five in 2001. It’s that with this team — even with its numerous and obvious flaws — they won four of five games earlier in the season. “Even then, we had some issues,” guard Brian Waters said. “When you look at games like Chicago and Houston, we had a couple of opportunities to come back in those games as well. “We’ve started slowly in some parts of the season and now we’re not finishing the way we were. Really, we’re just trying to find a complete game.”
Posts: 296,770

12-03-2007, 02:16 AM	#122
kcxiv In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Central Valley, Cali Casino cash: $8697996	This is what i have noticed They start off the games pretty well. Then when the Defense see's the offense isnt going to do a damn thing again. They lose focus. Herm as someone said puts self doubt in the offense. This team is just bad. Why oh why do Herman Edwards football teams suffer from tons of injuries. I know why the QB's do. His ****ed up play calling. Then he puts his QB's in obvious passing situations and its like hitting a baseball off a tee.
Posts: 29,111

12-03-2007, 03:13 AM	#125
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-522950	Look, I said before this year and still to this day believe the Chiefs are a largely untalented team that no coaching will overcome. The problem is we have the wrong people leading this "rebuilding". 1. We have a coach who I believe if he had New Englands offensive talent we'd average no more than 20 a game and he'd be repeatedly screaming at the QB for changing plays and scoring to fast...he has actually done this before in NY. 2. We have a GM who at his heart doesn't want to rebuild. Signing Edwards, LJ moves like that are not rebuilding moves. It's like I call it, halfass rebuilding. The Chiefs can be ready to compete probably in 3-4 years if it's done right, I just have no trust in the team to do it right. Also anyone who points out the defense is #9..answer these questions...how many holes does it still have..answer a lot due to shittyness and age...how many times has it folded in 2nd halfs...at home... The defense is further a long than the offense but it is nowhere close to being a finished product either, this team just by in large lacks talent but it also has an incompetent coaching staff fueled by a GM who will almost undoubtedly go out and sign FA's to win 8 games when in reality they shouldn't heavily play the market this year.. If the Chiefs finish 4-12.....they can draft 2 starting OT's.....a guard in the 4th and probably a corner in the 3rd.......I'd probably try to sign Bryant Johnson so Kennison and Parker are both gone...but there is no need to spend 100 million dollars in FA this year when they can get younger players in the draft to do the same thing.
Posts: 115,257

12-03-2007, 04:04 AM	#126
kcxiv In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Central Valley, Cali Casino cash: $8697996	IMO, the Defense is close to being a finished product. They have been pretty damned good all year considering how piss poor our Defense is.
Posts: 29,111

12-03-2007, 04:08 AM	#128
kcxiv In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Central Valley, Cali Casino cash: $8697996	You can play with older players. **** look at New England they are pretty good, and they got some old folks there, but they have good players in key areas. Vrabel is old, Bruschi is old. Seau is old, Harrison is old. thats some good age right there.
Posts: 29,111

12-03-2007, 06:05 AM	#131
Gravedigger Plays to win the game! Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Lees Summit Casino cash: $6493101	Completely calling out Mike Solari saying he's a stress I love it.
Posts: 7,821