Cardinals The "Official" Cardinals Discussion Thread. - Page 9

**BigRedChief** · 07-07-2008, 07:05 AM

Figured that if we had one thread to discuss Cardinals "stuff" it would be easier to find. What do you think? Good idea?

**BigRedChief** · 07-10-2008, 06:37 AM

Larussa wants help now not in 2009.

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Moved by what he has received from a team recognized as overachievers, Cardinals manager Tony La Russa on Wednesday urged that the front office and ownership "use every resource we can" to improve as quickly as possible following significant moves by the Chicago Cubs and Milwaukee Brewers.La Russa cited the Brewers' trade Monday for Cleveland Indians righthander CC Sabathia and the Cubs' acquisition Tuesday of Oakland A's starter Rich Harden and reliever Chad Gaudin as "not the best news we've heard this year if you're a Cardinal fan."

La Russa was not comforted by recent front-office suggestions that the expected return in August of starting pitchers Chris Carpenter and Adam Wainwright from elbow and finger issues would offset those deals."The difference is this is July 9 and those guys (Sabathia, Harden and Gaudin) are here now. You're looking at health (for Carpenter and Wainwright) in August," La Russa said. "That's a big edge to have the help now. I don't get comforted by the fact we may have guys coming back later." His statements Wednesday come as general manager John Mozeliak insists the club will not reflexively answer moves by its rivals, especially for pending free agents or so-called rental players.

"I think the goal and the urgency should be there to help us as long as a lot of games are left on the schedule," La Russa said.
La Russa suggested that modest expectations in February for the club should not affect the urgency to make a move, now that the club leads the wild card race 91 games into the schedule.

"In my mind, if you didn't have expectations and you were (lousy) July 1, it's a wash," La Russa said. "But whether you had expectations or you didn't, when you get to July 1 like we have, then I believe since you play the year you're playing and don't take anything for granted, your goal should be to improve your chance to win right now."

The Cardinals are in search of lefthanded relief help and another hitter, with starting pitching considered a secondary need. La Russa did not specify Wednesday what's on his wish list but, according to club sources, emphasized the need to better protect first baseman Albert Pujols within the lineup during a meeting last week with Mozeliak and Chairman Bill DeWitt Jr.

After general manager Walt Jocketty was fired in October, DeWitt publicly committed to creating greater self-sufficiency for a franchise traditionally dependent on free agency and trades.Mozeliak said Wednesday he can "appreciate where Tony is coming from. But I'm taking a broader view where we're not going to do something that may hurt us in two, three or four years."

A team thought to be "transitional" instead has vied for the NL Central lead most of this season, thanks to a starting rotation that leads the league in winning percentage, a much-improved defense and a quirky offense.
La Russa said, "If you have a high-expectation club and you get here, you might say, 'These guys are just getting rolling. They're guys who are going to get better, better and better.' Or you've got guys like ours. They've been busting it for three months. They probably need the boost more than another club."

La Russa recalled that the club left spring training, saying, "We still needed help when we started. Were we worthy of getting it? Maybe not, because it was a rebuilding year. Well, on July 1 we're one of the best records in the National League ... the wild card, whatever it is."
Privately, a number of players have inquired how the club may try to improve. La Russa did not deny sensing the vibe.

"I've had clubs that had a few more veterans kind of looking around. I don't know how sincere it was," La Russa said before sending Mark Mulder out for his first start since surgery last September — a start that lasted just three batters and one out. "But this club here, it's (all out). I just think the other day eve

**BigRedChief** · 07-10-2008, 06:43 AM

More Larussa wants help now

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PHILADELPHIA -- Cardinals manager Tony La Russa, typically a man with a very strong "play with what you've got" bias, indicated Wednesday his desire for the team's front office to bolster its current roster before the trade deadline.

"Since you play the year you're playing and you don't take [anything] for granted, the goal should be to improve your chance to win right now," La Russa said. "Not crazy, not for the fans to think you're doing something, [not] stupid, but I mean legitimately, use every resource you can to figure, is there a way to improve the club's chance?"

The Cardinals have steadfastly maintained a long view in team-building since the installation of John Mozeliak as general manager last fall. Mozeliak acknowledges the 2008 team could use some upgrades. However, he asserted that the club will not be reactive in its dealings.
That is, while the trades of CC Sabathia to Milwaukee and Rich Harden to Chicago certainly got the Cardinals' attention, those moves are unlikely to change the team's philosophical bent. This year matters, but so do the next several years.

"We [do not] want to get in a situation where we feel like we have to make a knee-jerk reaction," Mozeliak said Tuesday, "because our two biggest competitors in our division have made substantial moves. As we move forward, we're going to look at ways we can also improve our club. It may not be as dramatic as what they've done."

Outside of Busch Stadium, little was expected of this Cardinals team when the season started. And while team personnel rejected the notion of 2008 as a "transitional year," it was no secret that long-term flexibility was a major consideration in several of the club's offseason moves.

However, the 2008 Cardinals have exceeded many of those expectations. At the start of play Wednesday, they had the National League's second-best record and led the race for the NL Wild Card. In La Russa's mind, that means the equation is different from what it was in April.

"We still needed help when we started," he said. "It's just, were we worthy of getting it? We might not have been, because it's a rebuilding year, right? [But on] July 1, we've got the [second-best] record in the National League, we're [leading] for the Wild Card."

La Russa acknowledges the Cardinals may receive a significant boost next month, when both Adam Wainwright (finger) and Chris Carpenter (elbow surgery) are expected to return from injury. But he noted that both Chicago and Milwaukee made additions four or five weeks before those pitchers may return.

"This is what, July 9?" La Russa said. "And those guys [Sabathia and Harden] are here now. You're looking at help in August. That's a big edge to have the help. I don't get comforted by the fact that we may have guys coming back later. "The goal and the urgency is to see if there's something that can help us, as long as there are a lot of games left on the schedule."

StcChief · 07-10-2008, 09:16 AM

If Mulder is done, the L was worth it. I agree try to improve, but don't at the expense of
too many projects that are in the wings developing nicely on the Farm.

smittysbar · 07-10-2008, 10:26 AM

Sounds like Tony is wanting some help, hope the front office agrees.

God wasn't Rick's at bats the last two times up last night some of the ugliest shit you have ever seen. I about threw my Cap n Coke at the TV.

Frazod · 07-10-2008, 10:34 AM

To be fair, Albert's pop-ups weren't much better.

This team needs to start scoring some fucking runs. Everybody's bitching about pitching, but we've only scored 12 runs in the past week. Can't blame Mulder for that.

**BigRedChief** · 07-10-2008, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frazod

To be fair, Albert's pop-ups weren't much better.

Who knows if the calf issue doesn't effect his swing from time to time. We are talking about a 1/4 in difference on where the ball meets the bat between a home run/line drive/flyout.

StcChief · 07-10-2008, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Who knows if the calf issue doesn't effect his swing from time to time. We are talking about a 1/4 in difference on where the ball meets the bat between a home run/line drive/flyout.

we said that last nite....Albert will find it again. he could use the All-star break as a rest but....no.

epitome1170 · 07-10-2008, 11:21 AM

It's official now. Mulder to the DL, Garcia called up

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080710/...inals_mulder_6

Chief Henry · 07-10-2008, 11:35 AM

I'd say the Mulder experiment as a Cardinals is just about done.

I'm glad I didn't get to watch last nights game. I was at a HS softball game.

smittysbar · 07-10-2008, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by epitome1170

It's official now. Mulder to the DL, Garcia called up

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080710/...inals_mulder_6

YES

'Hamas' Jenkins · 07-10-2008, 01:16 PM

Garcia is our best pitching prospect, and it's nice to see them give him a shot rather than another Reyes retread.

With that being said, Tony can go fuck himself. This team is not built to compete. We have too many holes on this team. Our starting pitching is overrated, our bullpen is one of the worst in baseball and our middle infielders can't hit for shit.

If I see another Coco Crisp for two months of Chuck fucking Finley trade, I'm going to kill someone

**OnTheWarpath15** · 07-10-2008, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Garcia is our best pitching prospect, and it's nice to see them give him a shot rather than another Reyes retread.

With that being said, Tony can go fuck himself. This team is not built to compete. We have too many holes on this team. Our starting pitching is overrated, our bullpen is one of the worst in baseball and our middle infielders can't hit for shit.

If I see another Coco Crisp for two months of Chuck fucking Finley trade, I'm going to kill someone

Couldn't agree more.

I'm thrilled that they've hung around as long as they have, with obviously inferior talent.

No matter what they do, they aren't winning their 11th Championship this year.

Grin and bear it, play out the season, and get some kids some meaningful time on the field - it will only make them stronger for 2009.

**BigRedChief** · 07-10-2008, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Garcia is our best pitching prospect, and it's nice to see them give him a shot rather than another Reyes retread.

With that being said, Tony can go fuck himself. This team is not built to compete. We have too many holes on this team. Our starting pitching is overrated, our bullpen is one of the worst in baseball and our middle infielders can't hit for shit.

If I see another Coco Crisp for two months of Chuck fucking Finley trade, I'm going to kill someone

It's Tony's job to sell himself to the players that he's on their side. But on the other hand maybe he really is going to call it quits next year and doesn't care about the Cardinals after 2009?

smittysbar · 07-10-2008, 01:22 PM

Cards down 1 to 4 bottom of 7th

'Hamas' Jenkins · 07-10-2008, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

It's Tony's job to sell himself to the players that he's on their side. But on the other hand maybe he really is going to call it quits next year and doesn't care about the Cardinals after 2009?

It goes both ways. If you go out and make a desperation move not only do you hurt yourself long term but it also sends the message that they aren't good enough to compete now. If he quits, he quits. He's a great manager, but I'd much rather have a good manager with a team that has Pujols, Rasmus, Brett Wallace, Garcia, Perez, and Todd, than I would have a great manager with a team filled with reclamation projects.

07-07-2008, 07:05 AM
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $-661038 VARSITY	The "Official" Cardinals Discussion Thread. Figured that if we had one thread to discuss Cardinals "stuff" it would be easier to find. What do you think? Good idea?
Posts: 81,288

07-10-2008, 06:37 AM	#121
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $-661038 VARSITY	Larussa wants help now not in 2009. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Moved by what he has received from a team recognized as overachievers, Cardinals manager Tony La Russa on Wednesday urged that the front office and ownership "use every resource we can" to improve as quickly as possible following significant moves by the Chicago Cubs and Milwaukee Brewers.La Russa cited the Brewers' trade Monday for Cleveland Indians righthander CC Sabathia and the Cubs' acquisition Tuesday of Oakland A's starter Rich Harden and reliever Chad Gaudin as "not the best news we've heard this year if you're a Cardinal fan." La Russa was not comforted by recent front-office suggestions that the expected return in August of starting pitchers Chris Carpenter and Adam Wainwright from elbow and finger issues would offset those deals."The difference is this is July 9 and those guys (Sabathia, Harden and Gaudin) are here now. You're looking at health (for Carpenter and Wainwright) in August," La Russa said. "That's a big edge to have the help now. I don't get comforted by the fact we may have guys coming back later." His statements Wednesday come as general manager John Mozeliak insists the club will not reflexively answer moves by its rivals, especially for pending free agents or so-called rental players. "I think the goal and the urgency should be there to help us as long as a lot of games are left on the schedule," La Russa said. La Russa suggested that modest expectations in February for the club should not affect the urgency to make a move, now that the club leads the wild card race 91 games into the schedule. "In my mind, if you didn't have expectations and you were (lousy) July 1, it's a wash," La Russa said. "But whether you had expectations or you didn't, when you get to July 1 like we have, then I believe since you play the year you're playing and don't take anything for granted, your goal should be to improve your chance to win right now." The Cardinals are in search of lefthanded relief help and another hitter, with starting pitching considered a secondary need. La Russa did not specify Wednesday what's on his wish list but, according to club sources, emphasized the need to better protect first baseman Albert Pujols within the lineup during a meeting last week with Mozeliak and Chairman Bill DeWitt Jr. After general manager Walt Jocketty was fired in October, DeWitt publicly committed to creating greater self-sufficiency for a franchise traditionally dependent on free agency and trades.Mozeliak said Wednesday he can "appreciate where Tony is coming from. But I'm taking a broader view where we're not going to do something that may hurt us in two, three or four years." A team thought to be "transitional" instead has vied for the NL Central lead most of this season, thanks to a starting rotation that leads the league in winning percentage, a much-improved defense and a quirky offense. La Russa said, "If you have a high-expectation club and you get here, you might say, 'These guys are just getting rolling. They're guys who are going to get better, better and better.' Or you've got guys like ours. They've been busting it for three months. They probably need the boost more than another club." La Russa recalled that the club left spring training, saying, "We still needed help when we started. Were we worthy of getting it? Maybe not, because it was a rebuilding year. Well, on July 1 we're one of the best records in the National League ... the wild card, whatever it is." Privately, a number of players have inquired how the club may try to improve. La Russa did not deny sensing the vibe. "I've had clubs that had a few more veterans kind of looking around. I don't know how sincere it was," La Russa said before sending Mark Mulder out for his first start since surgery last September — a start that lasted just three batters and one out. "But this club here, it's (all out). I just think the other day eve __________________ Mahomes is not a game manager. Release the Kraken.
Posts: 81,288

07-10-2008, 06:43 AM	#122
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $-661038 VARSITY	More Larussa wants help now --------------------------------------------------------------------- PHILADELPHIA -- Cardinals manager Tony La Russa, typically a man with a very strong "play with what you've got" bias, indicated Wednesday his desire for the team's front office to bolster its current roster before the trade deadline. "Since you play the year you're playing and you don't take [anything] for granted, the goal should be to improve your chance to win right now," La Russa said. "Not crazy, not for the fans to think you're doing something, [not] stupid, but I mean legitimately, use every resource you can to figure, is there a way to improve the club's chance?" The Cardinals have steadfastly maintained a long view in team-building since the installation of John Mozeliak as general manager last fall. Mozeliak acknowledges the 2008 team could use some upgrades. However, he asserted that the club will not be reactive in its dealings. That is, while the trades of CC Sabathia to Milwaukee and Rich Harden to Chicago certainly got the Cardinals' attention, those moves are unlikely to change the team's philosophical bent. This year matters, but so do the next several years. "We [do not] want to get in a situation where we feel like we have to make a knee-jerk reaction," Mozeliak said Tuesday, "because our two biggest competitors in our division have made substantial moves. As we move forward, we're going to look at ways we can also improve our club. It may not be as dramatic as what they've done." Outside of Busch Stadium, little was expected of this Cardinals team when the season started. And while team personnel rejected the notion of 2008 as a "transitional year," it was no secret that long-term flexibility was a major consideration in several of the club's offseason moves. However, the 2008 Cardinals have exceeded many of those expectations. At the start of play Wednesday, they had the National League's second-best record and led the race for the NL Wild Card. In La Russa's mind, that means the equation is different from what it was in April. "We still needed help when we started," he said. "It's just, were we worthy of getting it? We might not have been, because it's a rebuilding year, right? [But on] July 1, we've got the [second-best] record in the National League, we're [leading] for the Wild Card." La Russa acknowledges the Cardinals may receive a significant boost next month, when both Adam Wainwright (finger) and Chris Carpenter (elbow surgery) are expected to return from injury. But he noted that both Chicago and Milwaukee made additions four or five weeks before those pitchers may return. "This is what, July 9?" La Russa said. "And those guys [Sabathia and Harden] are here now. You're looking at help in August. That's a big edge to have the help. I don't get comforted by the fact that we may have guys coming back later. "The goal and the urgency is to see if there's something that can help us, as long as there are a lot of games left on the schedule." __________________ Mahomes is not a game manager. Release the Kraken.
Posts: 81,288

07-10-2008, 09:16 AM	#123
StcChief Playing for #1 Draft Pick Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Just West of Lambs land Casino cash: $10004900	If Mulder is done, the L was worth it. I agree try to improve, but don't at the expense of too many projects that are in the wings developing nicely on the Farm. __________________ sig test for this screwy schema
Posts: 25,901

07-10-2008, 10:26 AM	#124
smittysbar Right in the Lumberyard Danny Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: LaPlata, MO Casino cash: $10004942	Sounds like Tony is wanting some help, hope the front office agrees. God wasn't Rick's at bats the last two times up last night some of the ugliest shit you have ever seen. I about threw my Cap n Coke at the TV. __________________
Posts: 6,646

07-10-2008, 10:34 AM	#125
Frazod Did you hear what I said? Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $-656615	To be fair, Albert's pop-ups weren't much better. This team needs to start scoring some fucking runs. Everybody's bitching about pitching, but we've only scored 12 runs in the past week. Can't blame Mulder for that.
Posts: 121,727

07-10-2008, 11:21 AM	#128
epitome1170 CP's Resident S.E. Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: KCMO Casino cash: $9562460	It's official now. Mulder to the DL, Garcia called up http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080710/...inals_mulder_6
Posts: 891

07-10-2008, 11:35 AM	#129
Chief Henry MVP Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: IOWA Casino cash: $10005088	I'd say the Mulder experiment as a Cardinals is just about done. I'm glad I didn't get to watch last nights game. I was at a HS softball game. __________________ Patrick Mahomes...The only QB to ever play in the NFL with at least 5,000 passing yards in a single season and 5,000 passing yards in a single college season.
Posts: 8,361

07-10-2008, 01:16 PM	#131
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7219572	Garcia is our best pitching prospect, and it's nice to see them give him a shot rather than another Reyes retread. With that being said, Tony can go fuck himself. This team is not built to compete. We have too many holes on this team. Our starting pitching is overrated, our bullpen is one of the worst in baseball and our middle infielders can't hit for shit. If I see another Coco Crisp for two months of Chuck fucking Finley trade, I'm going to kill someone __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 75,078

07-10-2008, 01:22 PM	#134
smittysbar Right in the Lumberyard Danny Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: LaPlata, MO Casino cash: $10004942	Cards down 1 to 4 bottom of 7th __________________
Posts: 6,646