***Official 2015 STL Cardinals Thread II***

[BigRedChief]

2011 World Series Championship
2012 NLCS. One win from another WS appearance.
2013 World Series. Two wins from another World Series Championship
2014 NLCS. Three wins from another WS appearance
2015 Clinched Central Division title and Home Field advantage in the playoffs. First team in MLB to win 100 games since 2011.

• Made the postseason 11 times in the last 15 seasons.
• Only 1 losing season since 2000.
• Reached the World Series 4 times since 2004 and won as many championships (two) the past eight seasons as it did from 1965 to 2005.
• Made the NLCS 9 times including the last 4 years 2011-2014
• Three million attendance? Take it to the bank.
• 65 post season wins since 2004. 22+ wins more than any other team.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Sounds like your problem is with the fans giving the ovation.

Um. Yes.

That would be why I mocked them and said I hated Cardinals fans more than Hootie when I first mentioned it in this thread on the night that they did it.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

And who else was making jerk-off signs when that whole goddamn stadium gave Moss a standing ovation? Was that just me?

The guy's never taken a ****ing at bat as a Cardinal and you're giving him a standing O? For what?

THAT'S the kind of self congratulatory horse shit that makes people hate Cardinals fans. "Oh man, look at how great we are - clapping for the guy we just traded for". Stephen Piscotty fought his way all the way up through the minor league system and made it - where was his standing O? Miguel Socolovich has bounced around for a decade before making himself a major leaguer - where was his standing O?

Brandon Moss is just another hack that ended up on a team through no choice of his own - just exactly what the hell does he deserve an ovation for?

I then threw in a 'Go US!' to further emphasize that point.

I have a problem with Brandon Moss because he is AWFUL. A truly horrific baseball player who should not be on a major league roster. I don't fault him for stupid fans giving him an undeserved standing ovation.

He's dogshit on his own merits.

[ChiefsCountry]

The Brandon Moss trade has to be some sort of payback for raping the Red Sox without using anal lube last year in the Lackey trade.

[VAChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Because it's self-aggrandizing schlock.

Most of the people giving the guy an ovation have no earthly idea who he is, it's just the new guy to them. Well where the hell was their ovation for Cishek? Broxton? Piscotty?

This was just a bunch of 'gee shucks' fans wanting to feel good about themselves so they applauded a guy who's done nothing to help this team win and in fact has actively impeded those efforts.

When everyone's special, nobody's special. If you're giving standing ovations to throwaway trash like Brandon Moss just because he's wearing the birds on his chest, then the ovations mean absolutely nothing.

I don't see it as recognizing someone special as just "welcome to the team" and as such (particularly for Piscotty,) there is something to recognizing someone new. Different fans every night, but I get the consistency arguments as well.

Now if he continues to suck, gets released and returns here as a Marlin and the fans give him a standing O, then I could see the level of angst. One time, welcome, not a problem.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by VAChief

I don't see it as recognizing someone special as just "welcome to the team" and as such (particularly for Piscotty,) there is something to recognizing someone new. Different fans every night, but I get the consistency arguments as well.

Now if he continues to suck, gets released and returns here as a Marlin and the fans give him a standing O, then I could see the level of angst. One time, welcome, not a problem.

He was not here of his own recognizance. He had no choice but to play for the Cardinals. He's not a 10/5 guy. He has no NTC. He could play for St. Louis or retire.

He's not even a guy we're trying to 'recruit' for next year - the Cards have him under team control if they want him in 2016.

He's just another guy. Like I said, he's no different than a slew of new faces that hit this club every year and giving him a standing ovation does a disservice to the people that actually earn something. All Moss managed to do was not die on the flight over.

HURRAY!!!!!

If it's Larry Walker you can salute him for joining the right side after years of being a thorn (and as a sign of respect for what he's accomplished). If It's Holliday you do it as a showing that you want him to stick around because you value his skills. For Brandon Moss? A guy with 4 good months of baseball in his entire career who isn't even a pending FA? Ugh...you're just doing it there because you think you're supposed to.

Again, it's BFIB saccharine nonsense.

[Swanman]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

He was not here of his own recognizance. He had no choice but to play for the Cardinals. He's not a 10/5 guy. He has no NTC. He could play for St. Louis or retire.

He's not even a guy we're trying to 'recruit' for next year - the Cards have him under team control if they want him in 2016.

He's just another guy. Like I said, he's no different than a slew of new faces that hit this club every year and giving him a standing ovation does a disservice to the people that actually earn something. All Moss managed to do was not die on the flight over.

HURRAY!!!!!

If it's Larry Walker you can salute him for joining the right side after years of being a thorn (and as a sign of respect for what he's accomplished). If It's Holliday you do it as a showing that you want him to stick around because you value his skills. For Brandon Moss? A guy with 4 good months of baseball in his entire career who isn't even a pending FA? Ugh...you're just doing it there because you think you're supposed to.

Again, it's BFIB saccharine nonsense.

Using Brandon Moss as the standing O measuring stick, Ty Wigginton should have been given a full inning standing O because his production was basically the same and he didn't cost a premium pitching prospect.

[VAChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Ugh...you're just doing it there because you think you're supposed to.

Again, it's BFIB saccharine nonsense.

That could be true, and probably is in any situation that a crowd reacts (to an extent). To generalize with certainty (about an entire fan base) seems just as disingenuous.

[VAChief]

That said, the trade was garbage, I don't understand the value they apparently thought they were getting for their #4 at worst and most likely #3 prospect. It was the equivalent of trading Carlos Martinez in 2011 for Vernon Wells.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by VAChief

That said, the trade was garbage, I don't understand the value they apparently thought they were getting for their #4 at worst and most likely #3 prospect. It was the equivalent of trading Carlos Martinez in 2011 for Vernon Wells.

Vernon Wells at least demonstrated a skill in 2011.

Even at his worst, Wells smashed lefties in 2011. He was at least a half tool player.

Brandon Moss does nothing. And his nothing has actually gotten progressively worse as the season went along.

It's really difficult to find a suitable analogue. Really, how many teams have actively sought to acquire a guy who's not shown the ability to do anything well over the course of the previous 4 months and in fact has gotten progressively worse with every passing month over that period of time. There's not a single split you can put in place to say "here's something Brandon Moss has done well this season"....

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by VAChief

That said, the trade was garbage, I don't understand the value they apparently thought they were getting for their #4 at worst and most likely #3 prospect. It was the equivalent of trading Carlos Martinez in 2011 for Vernon Wells.

I don't think you will find a person on the planet, including in the Cardinals front office, that will say it was a fair trade. Looks really bad right now.

But, I've got trust in Mo. No one is perfect. No GM wins every trade. Especially trade deadline trades. Those are always a premium for the buyer.

For every Moss, there are 3-4 that we clearly won the trade.

Brett Wallace - Going to be an All-Star
Rasmus - 5 tool player
Craig - His foot will get fully healed then watch out
Kelly - A legitimate #3.

Getting Grichuk for Salas

All those AA-A prospects that we have given up for middle reliefs guys over the last 5 years - none have come back to bite us in the ass yet.

Letting Pujols walk and take the fan heat. Then strikes gold on the two compensation picks.

Trading Miller instead of Martinez will work out in the long run.

We don't know what is going in these players life's. Maybe they got a bad fiance that will ruin him. Helicopter parents, drinks too much. Not that smart or cant follow instruction. etc. etc. Mo does. And it seems he has a pretty damn good GM average in the trade market.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

DJ spot on again. Giving turds like that rounding ovations is sickening.

[O.city]

Thankfully Heyward us back and ik, now he can continue to carry the offense with his power surge. Bet he ends up with 25 homers

[O.city]

And as I say that, I go get the mail.

It's a nice beautiful morning in southwest mo. I've got a good cup if coffee, it's not too hot out.

I stroll down the driveway, chipper, thinking "it's a good day, Chiefs play tonight, no work today, play golf this afternoon".

Once I reach the end of the driveway, I lay my hand on the mailbox. Something feels different. Something feels right.

I open it up, there's a new sports illustrated. "Awesome" runs in my head, "once the coffee kicks in, I'll have something to read in the toilet".

I pull it up to reading distance to check out the cover. Much to my chagrin, there's Jason Heyward, right there on the cover.

As I see that, I think, "**** PGM".

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by O.city

And as I say that, I go get the mail.

It's a nice beautiful morning in southwest mo. I've got a good cup if coffee, it's not too hot out.

I stroll down the driveway, chipper, thinking "it's a good day, Chiefs play tonight, no work today, play golf this afternoon".

Once I reach the end of the driveway, I lay my hand on the mailbox. Something feels different. Something feels right.

I open it up, there's a new sports illustrated. "Awesome" runs in my head, "once the coffee kicks in, I'll have something to read in the toilet".

I pull it up to reading distance to check out the cover. Much to my chagrin, there's Jason Heyward, right there on the cover.

As I see that, I think, "**** PGM".

well played sir

[Miles]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Wow. This is just wrong.

He's absolutely been bad to have around. Abysmally bad, in fact. Scruggs, Garcia, Pham - they'd have all been better than Moss. The only person he's been an improvement over has been Dan Johnson and nothing ever made sense about Dan Johnson being on a major league roster.

He cannot catch. He cannot throw. He cannot hit and he cannot run. He does absolutely nothing well on a baseball field but because of the cost to acquire him, Matheny keeps trotting his worthless ass out there to suck. Greg Garcia could be actually helping this team with the roster spot that Moss is sucking up and yet he's not.

Yes, Brandon Moss has been bad to have around. He's been terrible to have around. He's been marginally more valuable to the Cardinals than you would have been and as far as I know, you're a wheelchair bound 80 yr old woman who types with her tongue. It wouldn't matter because Brandon Moss has been that !@#$ing bad.

We wouldn't have had to play with 24 guys if he wasn't on this team - we'd have been allowed to put someone on the roster that WASN'T Brandon Moss. That would have been an improvement.

So with Cruz, Kozma and Moss all occupying spots on this roster, as well as a 13 man pitching staff (when dipshit Matheny will steal leave Garcia out there to give up the go-ahead run despite obviously tiring), We're essentially playing with a 20 man roster at this point.

Yep you are completely right here and I didn't completely realize just how bad he has been. Casually thought his hitting has been slightly less shitty lately which it hasn't. Also forgot while he can play a few positions but he does so with below replacement defensive ability.

The August trades are making this that much more annoying.

[kcpasco]

Matheny allows Martinez to bat in the 7th down 1 with runners on the corners and no outs. SMH