Chiefs Why the Chiefs need Cowher... - Page 19

htismaqe · 12-19-2012, 11:16 AM

No Super Bowl winning coach has ever won the Super Bowl again with a different team. We know this.

We also know the NFL is fixed.

There wouldn't be a bigger story line in the NFL next year than if the Chiefs, who haven't drafted a QB since Todd Blackledge, were to win the Super Bowl, making Cowher, who has been in the broadcast booth, the first coach to win it all with 2 different teams.

Make it happen, Roger!

Imon Yourside · 12-21-2012, 01:23 PM

I was never a big Cowher fan, meh...give me Geno and Chip kelly!!!!!!!

**HemiEd** · 12-21-2012, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bricks

At least with legacy comes experience and knowledge on how to build and field a winner. Thats could serve well under an ownership thats clueless and
lacks experience/knowledge.

I think its important to look at the Chiefs current situation because that should dictate a lot in terms of what direction they should go. Should they go with experience/knowledge/previous winner or go with inexperience/youth/lack of knowledge, no track record, etc.

It's not always about what we want, its about what makes the most sense. Or what they(Hunt family) believe is right.

No mystery on how build and field a winner, draft a franchise Qb. fail? draft another one. Fail? draft one until you get one.

The Patriot way=Tom Brady Steelers=Roethlesberger NY Giants=Eli Manning Denver Broncos=Peyton Manning Colts=Andrew Luck Redskins=RG3 Saints=Drew Brees Chiefs=failed recycled QB of the day

It seems pretty obvious to me.

Imon Yourside · 12-21-2012, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HemiEd

No mystery on how build and field a winner, draft a franchise Qb. fail? draft another one. Fail? draft one until you get one.

The Patriot way=Tom Brady Steelers=Roethlesberger NY Giants=Eli Manning Denver Broncos=Peyton Manning Colts=Andrew Luck Redskins=RG3 Saints=Drew Brees Chiefs=failed recycled QB of the day

It seems pretty obvious to me.

That's it! The QB seems to make the coach, not the other way around.

**HemiEd** · 12-21-2012, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KILLER_CLOWN

That's it! The QB seems to make the coach, not the other way around.

Exactly, a good HC choice will allow the Franchise QB to succeed. Our team has been doing it just opposite since DV left.

The more recent Chiefs way is to contain the potential mistakes that the mediocre to below average QB will make by restricting him. Make him play scared of ****ing up, yeah!

I offer Stanzi as evidence. When he was fresh out of Iowa, and played in his first preseason game, he was loose and pretty carefree. He looked great.

A year later, he looked like he was afraid of stepping on his own shoelaces.

O.city · 12-21-2012, 01:42 PM

I want a coach that runs a tight aggressive ship. I want a disciplinarian to lead this team. I realize that Cowher has alot of knocks to his name, but so does every other coach.

I'm of the opinion that a great Qb can make even the most mediocre coaches look good. Dungy, Caldwell, etc.

So, my biggest reason for Cowher is that he showed that he could win without a franchise QB, then he showed that he could/would win with a franchise QB.

Hopefully, by having the 1st overall pick, whoever we bring in will have a franchise Qb forced on him.

WV · 12-21-2012, 01:44 PM

Said it many times....**** Cowher.

htismaqe · 12-21-2012, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keg in kc

I've used this quote a lot lately:

Einstein once said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

Vemeil, Herm, Romeo. We've done the retreads. Over and over. And over. And over. It hasn't worked. It won't work.

We tried once with Todd Haley. Exactly the right idea. Wrong guy. But that's what we need to try, to find a young coach that can have a long tenure. The experience comes with the coordinators. That's where you hire your retreads.

We're trying to emulate Pittsburgh, and I think it's the right approach, but we need to find the 1992 version of Bill Cowher, not the 2013 one.

Another great post. I gotta go find random slapdicks and give them rep so that I can give you some more.

O.city · 12-21-2012, 02:47 PM

We have done retreads and we have done the new hot OC option.

Whats the one thing we didn't combine with any of those guys?

At this point, thats my main concern.

If Geno is what we all hope and want him to be, it won't make a whole ton of difference.

O.city · 12-21-2012, 02:50 PM

Take Vermiel. That wasn't the "wrong" option, IMO. The wrong option was not putting an average defense on the field to pair with that offense.

Same with Haley. Haley wasn't the wrong option, turned out bad, but it wasn't wrong. Pairing him with an inept QB and handcuffing him was the wrong option.

It seems like this is a common sense thing to us here, and I'm sure there are other things that go into this, but it doesn't seem to be that hard.

Bewbies · 12-21-2012, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keg in kc

I've used this quote a lot lately:

Einstein once said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

Vemeil, Herm, Romeo. We've done the retreads. Over and over. And over. And over. It hasn't worked. It won't work.

We tried once with Todd Haley. Exactly the right idea. Wrong guy. But that's what we need to try, to find a young coach that can have a long tenure. The experience comes with the coordinators. That's where you hire your retreads.

We're trying to emulate Pittsburgh, and I think it's the right approach, but we need to find the 1992 version of Bill Cowher, not the 2013 one.

No doubt, doing what Pittsburgh does is a lot different than hiring who Pittsburgh already has.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 12-21-2012, 03:40 PM

Good lord...

O.city · 12-21-2012, 03:40 PM

Should read, why Cowher needs the Chiefs

bricks · 12-21-2012, 04:39 PM

You can apply Einstein's philosophy, but it only works to a certain extent. You also need to think outside that philosophy a little bit. Einstein's philosophy makes sense in that this organization should learn to NOT hire bad head coaches that have a history of poor track records. They did it once with Herm and did it again by hiring Romeo. They did the same thing and got the same result, bad football teams.

Now, take Vermeil and Marty. Both are retread head coaches but both have had their share of success during their tenure in KC moreso than Herm and Romeo. What are you going to say? Don't hire those head coaches because they are retread head coaches? That doesn't make any sense. But, wait a second here, they had different results compared to Herm and Romeo! They were more successful. This is where you guys have to think outside of Einstein's philosophy and shift your thinking a little bit.

What was the reason why those head coaches didn't win Superbowls? It has nothing to do with them being retread head coaches, you have to investigate these type of situations a lot differently. In my opinion, the reason why those head coaches were unsuccessful to the point where they didn't win a Superbowl was because they lacked personnel in many ways. Let's take Vermeil for example, he didn't have the personnel on defense. Didn't have it from both a coaching perspective and player perspective. In addition, he didn't have the GM to provide him with either or. that's where Peterson failed imo.

Marty was a bit of a different story. He had a bit of personnel on offense. In '93 they acquired Montana, Allen and had a pretty solid offensive line to go with and excellent defense. what was the result? A ****ing AFC championship game. But after that, he lacked personnel on offense. He didn't have the QB, OC, WR's, etc. He had a great defense though as usual. This comes down to Peterson again. He was unsuccessful in providing Marty with the personnel on offense necessary to be successful. Aside from that, what hurt Marty was porous decision making by going with Grbac instead of Gannon. Marty was his own enemy in that sense where his decision making backfired on him.

The NFL really comes down to balance guys. Im sure a lot of you guys know that. Get your perspectives straight. Retread head coaches with a good track record could be successful provided that they have the GM, front office necessary to surround them with all the personnel necessary to be a complete football team and compete for championships. WE HAVE NEVER HAD THAT!!

Look at me with a straight face and tell me when have the Chiefs ever had a complete, balanced football team from top to bottom with an excellent coaching staff and talent to enable them to compete for a ****ing championship? When? Probably not since the '60's. Yeah. 40 years ago.

*Im okay with hiring a retread head coaches that have GOOD track records IF it means that the GM and the rest of the front office are keen enough to build COMPLETE football teams with solid coaching staffs.

*Of course we have never drafted and developed a QB either. But don't be so fixated on that to the point where you lose sight on other factors that are involved in being successful. The NFL or any other sport involves multiple factors in being successful. If we can't do any of these things right then I continue to expect fail in this franchise.

whoman69 · 12-21-2012, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KILLER_CLOWN

That's it! The QB seems to make the coach, not the other way around.

Or did those QBs receive good coaching? Chicken or the egg. I happen to believe that good players develop in good systems.

bricks · 12-21-2012, 04:52 PM

In my opinion, the GM hire or whatever front offices hires we make are equally as important as hiring the next head coach and coaching staff.

They are all equally as important as drafting the next QB. Yeah you need a QB to be successful in this league but coaching, GM's and good front offices go a long way as well.

Success isn't just the QB. It's EVERYTING. You need everything to win.

You guys know that. Im just trying to keep your thinking broad thats all.

12-19-2012, 11:16 AM
htismaqe 'Tis my eye! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Chiefsplanet Casino cash: $10269900	Why the Chiefs need Cowher... No Super Bowl winning coach has ever won the Super Bowl again with a different team. We know this. We also know the NFL is fixed. There wouldn't be a bigger story line in the NFL next year than if the Chiefs, who haven't drafted a QB since Todd Blackledge, were to win the Super Bowl, making Cowher, who has been in the broadcast booth, the first coach to win it all with 2 different teams. Make it happen, Roger!
Posts: 100,022

12-21-2012, 01:23 PM	#271
Imon Yourside WhatUneed2Hear Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: AllSoulsMatter Casino cash: $2653181	I was never a big Cowher fan, meh...give me Geno and Chip kelly!!!!!!! __________________ "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour" Peter 5:8 "Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay" Isaiah 29:16 "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." Revelation 3:20
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12-21-2012, 01:42 PM	#275
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $2774064	I want a coach that runs a tight aggressive ship. I want a disciplinarian to lead this team. I realize that Cowher has alot of knocks to his name, but so does every other coach. I'm of the opinion that a great Qb can make even the most mediocre coaches look good. Dungy, Caldwell, etc. So, my biggest reason for Cowher is that he showed that he could win without a franchise QB, then he showed that he could/would win with a franchise QB. Hopefully, by having the 1st overall pick, whoever we bring in will have a franchise Qb forced on him.
Posts: 81,205

12-21-2012, 01:44 PM	#276
WV Veteran Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: In the Holler Casino cash: $10004950	Said it many times....**** Cowher.
Posts: 4,983

12-21-2012, 02:47 PM	#278
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $2774064	We have done retreads and we have done the new hot OC option. Whats the one thing we didn't combine with any of those guys? At this point, thats my main concern. If Geno is what we all hope and want him to be, it won't make a whole ton of difference.
Posts: 81,205

12-21-2012, 02:50 PM	#279
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $2774064	Take Vermiel. That wasn't the "wrong" option, IMO. The wrong option was not putting an average defense on the field to pair with that offense. Same with Haley. Haley wasn't the wrong option, turned out bad, but it wasn't wrong. Pairing him with an inept QB and handcuffing him was the wrong option. It seems like this is a common sense thing to us here, and I'm sure there are other things that go into this, but it doesn't seem to be that hard.
Posts: 81,205

12-21-2012, 03:40 PM	#281
Sweet Daddy Hate Unsparing Join Date: Aug 2008 Casino cash: $10004900	Good lord... __________________ 1. Merciless, severe. 2. Given freely and generously. 100% refusal to overrate 20 year Head Coaches with ZERO **ing rings as a Head Coach. CP's Official Professor of 'Dem Blues for 2019/2020!**
Posts: 77,135

12-21-2012, 03:40 PM	#282
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $2774064	Should read, why Cowher needs the Chiefs
Posts: 81,205

12-21-2012, 04:39 PM	#283
bricks Hey Teacher! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: land of maple syrup Casino cash: $9902559	You can apply Einstein's philosophy, but it only works to a certain extent. You also need to think outside that philosophy a little bit. Einstein's philosophy makes sense in that this organization should learn to NOT hire bad head coaches that have a history of poor track records. They did it once with Herm and did it again by hiring Romeo. They did the same thing and got the same result, bad football teams. Now, take Vermeil and Marty. Both are retread head coaches but both have had their share of success during their tenure in KC moreso than Herm and Romeo. What are you going to say? Don't hire those head coaches because they are retread head coaches? That doesn't make any sense. But, wait a second here, they had different results compared to Herm and Romeo! They were more successful. This is where you guys have to think outside of Einstein's philosophy and shift your thinking a little bit. What was the reason why those head coaches didn't win Superbowls? It has nothing to do with them being retread head coaches, you have to investigate these type of situations a lot differently. In my opinion, the reason why those head coaches were unsuccessful to the point where they didn't win a Superbowl was because they lacked personnel in many ways. Let's take Vermeil for example, he didn't have the personnel on defense. Didn't have it from both a coaching perspective and player perspective. In addition, he didn't have the GM to provide him with either or. that's where Peterson failed imo. Marty was a bit of a different story. He had a bit of personnel on offense. In '93 they acquired Montana, Allen and had a pretty solid offensive line to go with and excellent defense. what was the result? A **ing AFC championship game. But after that, he lacked personnel on offense. He didn't have the QB, OC, WR's, etc. He had a great defense though as usual. This comes down to Peterson again. He was unsuccessful in providing Marty with the personnel on offense necessary to be successful. Aside from that, what hurt Marty was porous decision making by going with Grbac instead of Gannon. Marty was his own enemy in that sense where his decision making backfired on him. The NFL really comes down to balance guys. Im sure a lot of you guys know that. Get your perspectives straight. Retread head coaches with a good track record could be successful provided that they have the GM, front office necessary to surround them with all the personnel necessary to be a complete football team and compete for championships. WE HAVE NEVER HAD THAT!! Look at me with a straight face and tell me when have the Chiefs ever had a complete, balanced football team from top to bottom with an excellent coaching staff and talent to enable them to compete for a *ing championship? When? Probably not since the '60's. Yeah. 40 years ago. Im okay with hiring a retread head coaches that have GOOD track records IF it means that the GM and the rest of the front office are keen enough to build COMPLETE football teams with solid coaching staffs. Of course we have never drafted and developed a QB either. But don't be so fixated on that to the point where you lose sight on other factors that are involved in being successful. The NFL or any other sport involves multiple factors in being successful. If we can't do any of these things right then I continue to expect fail in this franchise. Last edited by bricks; 12-21-2012 at 04:58 PM..*
Posts: 5,513

12-21-2012, 04:52 PM	#285
bricks Hey Teacher! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: land of maple syrup Casino cash: $9902559	In my opinion, the GM hire or whatever front offices hires we make are equally as important as hiring the next head coach and coaching staff. They are all equally as important as drafting the next QB. Yeah you need a QB to be successful in this league but coaching, GM's and good front offices go a long way as well. Success isn't just the QB. It's EVERYTING. You need everything to win. You guys know that. Im just trying to keep your thinking broad thats all.
Posts: 5,513