****The OFFICIAL 2013 Mizzou Tigers Basketball Thread****

[Saul Good]

MIZ-SEC

[beer bacon]

Originally Posted by NewChief

Was your team better this year or last year? You know, discounting the first round flameout in the tourney.

Was the team better the year before last or last year? If Haith took last year's team to 30 wins, why did that same lineup + Bowers suck so hard with LMA as their coach?

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by NewChief

Talk radio this morning were talking about how Haith should be thanking Anderson.

He handed him the keys to a stacked team.
He rescued him from probably firing in Miami.

And this is the thanks Anderson gets?

Anyway, the rivalry is now on, I'd say. It's going to be fun next time Mizzou comes to Fayetteville.

He handed him the keys to a stacked team? That finished his last season losing 7/8 games and got embarrassed in the first round of the Big 12 tournament and the first round of the NCAAs?

That had just 8 scholarship players returning, at least one of whom (Kim English) would have been gone had Anderson stayed.

That had enormous chemistry and on-court discipline problems.

That had NO legitimate D-1 size beyond two players. (Steve Moore - very borderline in this regard).

Haith took that group of players to heights Anderson never came CLOSE to with it despite losing Bowers before the season ever started. He turned an incredibly flawed team into an incredibly effective team (though the lack of size and defense flaws caught them in Norfolk State's perfect storm).

Oh, and they had no incoming freshmen to offer any help, too.

Anderson handed Haith the keys to a vintage muscle car that needed major body work and some engine work. The cupboard wasn't entirely bare. But disaster loomed on the horizon.

Haith took so many transfers out of necessity, not necessarily design. It was his plan to balance out the classes at Missouri, and he has pulled it off brilliantly.

Maybe if Anderson would STOP patting himself on the back for Missouri's success in his absence, it would be less of an issue?

[NewChief]

Originally Posted by beer bacon

Was the team better the year before last or last year? If Haith took last year's team to 30 wins, why did that same lineup + Bowers suck so hard with LMA as their coach?

Anderson got them primed for Haith. Like I said... they were primed and ready for a run at the Final Four... if only Norfolk State hadn't gotten in the way.

And I've got to get some freaking grading done.

I'll leave with this: I'm, honestly, not sure who has the better deal here and who will pan out better in the end. I think those who pretend to such sureties are misguided and "fanatical." I just don't like the blind hate or homerism from either side. My kids will either go to KU or Mizzou if I have any say in it, so I'm fine with Mizzou. I do look forward to seeing the rivalry develop, though.

[CoMoChief]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Maybe if Anderson would STOP patting himself on the back for Missouri's success in his absence, it would be less of an issue?

What makes you think Anderson is patting himself on the back, other than the stuff that's on talk radio. What has Anderson said that would make you believe this?

To me, it sounds like people are trying to make a story out of nothing to try and juice up what could potentially be a rivalry because MU ruined one of the best rivalries in the country and now need a new one in a new conference.

[beer bacon]

Originally Posted by CoMoChief

What makes you think Anderson is patting himself on the back, other than the stuff that's on talk radio. What has Anderson said that would make you believe this?

To me, it sounds like people are trying to make a story out of nothing to try and juice up what could potentially be a rivalry because MU ruined one of the best rivalries in the country and now need a new one in a new conference.

Probably because LMA has been saying stuff like this all week, "That was a team that probably could have contended for a Final Four. I really thought that...It was in great shape. Most guys don't inherit a team like that."

LMA is referring to the team he left Haith.

Maybe it was when he said this in his post game press conference last night. This was in reference to Mizzou when he first got to Columbia, "When I got here, it was empty," Anderson continued. "It was empty, 'Damn, they got a program over there?'

[DJ's left nut]

One thing about Haith's transfer fetish - I'm not sure I'd get too excited about the 'necessity' argument.

His transfers has been a hell of a lot better than his Freshmen so far. Webster Chan absolutely blows. I'm not sure what Bull was ever supposed to be, but I sure don't see anything to be excited about there. Jankovic looks like he'll be a solid scorer, but I'm not sure his defense will ever get to passable. If the 2012 recruiting class is his average, Mizzou will struggle to be a consistent tournament team.

That said, that's really his only true freshman class and this year's class w/ JWIII and Wesley Clark looks a hell of a lot better. But it's tough to say that his freshman classes are anywhere near the level of the Ross/Bell/Criswell/Clarkson/Oriakhi/Brown/Post transfers he's brought in.

Maybe I just have a sour taste in my mouth still from Anton Beard de-committing. I just worry that he's going to get reliant on the transfer guys and we'll be in a constant state of rebuilding.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by NewChief

Anderson got them primed for Haith. Like I said... they were primed and ready for a run at the Final Four... if only Norfolk State hadn't gotten in the way.

And I've got to get some freaking grading done.

I'll leave with this: I'm, honestly, not sure who has the better deal here and who will pan out better in the end. I think those who pretend to such sureties are misguided and "fanatical." I just don't like the blind hate or homerism from either side. My kids will either go to KU or Mizzou if I have any say in it, so I'm fine with Mizzou. I do look forward to seeing the rivalry develop, though.

I like you, man. I really do.

But you're really far off base here.

Mike Anderson did not have that team primed for anything except implosion. Look at the way they closed the 2010-11 season. Look at the way the same players - plus Laurence Bowers - performed under Haith.

He dramatically changed EVERYTHING about the way Missouri played... offense, defense, everything.

And perhaps if Anderson had managed to sign someone in the early signing period during his last year at Mizzou - say, Otto Porter, who would have committed early if Anderson had recruited him at all as a junior - the Tigers would have had the size and depth to withstand the once-in-a-lifetime performance from Norfolk State.

[BourbonMan]

Originally Posted by CoMoChief

To me, it sounds like people are trying to make a story out of nothing to try and juice up what could potentially be a rivalry because MU ruined one of the best rivalries in the country and now need a new one in a new conference.

JFC..You Effing GayCocks just can't let it go, can you? Just drop it!!! This has been talked about, you guys are like a bunch of schools girls...HE SAID/SHE SAID

[NewChief]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

I like you, man. I really do.

But you're really far off base here.

Mike Anderson did not have that team primed for anything except implosion. Look at the way they closed the 2010-11 season. Look at the way the same players - plus Laurence Bowers - performed under Haith.

He dramatically changed EVERYTHING about the way Missouri played... offense, defense, everything.

And perhaps if Anderson had managed to sign someone in the early signing period during his last year at Mizzou - say, Otto Porter, who would have committed early if Anderson had recruited him at all as a junior - the Tigers would have had the size and depth to withstand the once-in-a-lifetime performance from Norfolk State.

I was being pretty tongue in cheek with my primed statement, btw. I know that there's going to be bad blood between them, but I'm not convinced that you guys are going to be as happy with Haith in the long run as you're pretending to be right now. I'm also not convinced that Arkansas is going to get what they want out of Anderson either, though.

I guess I'm pretty much always skeptical of anything, likely as a result of being a Hog fan, heh.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

One thing about Haith's transfer fetish - I'm not sure I'd get too excited about the 'necessity' argument.

His transfers has been a hell of a lot better than his Freshmen so far. Webster Chan absolutely blows. I'm not sure what Bull was ever supposed to be, but I sure don't see anything to be excited about there. Jankovic looks like he'll be a solid scorer, but I'm not sure his defense will ever get to passable. If the 2012 recruiting class is his average, Mizzou will struggle to be a consistent tournament team.

That said, that's really his only true freshman class and this year's class w/ JWIII and Wesley Clark looks a hell of a lot better. But it's tough to say that his freshman classes are anywhere near the level of the Ross/Bell/Criswell/Clarkson/Oriakhi/Brown/Post transfers he's brought in.

Maybe I just have a sour taste in my mouth still from Anton Beard de-committing. I just worry that he's going to get reliant on the transfer guys and we'll be in a constant state of rebuilding.

This recruiting class hasn't shown a ton, but Haith was working from a tough spot considering the short cycle (which any coach faces - other than guys you were recruiting at your previous job, it is tough to turn much around in your first recruiting class at a new school). Webster-Chan was clearly miscast as a primary ball handler and got his confidence crushed, but I think he might be a decent SEC player. Never a star, but a solid guy by the time he's a junior/senior. He has been playing better in bit duty the past few games.

Jankovic will be all about his defensive evolution. His offensive skills are clearly there and offer a lot of upside as a face-4.

Criswell has turned out to be a very nice JUCO target (which I don't really count as a normal transfer - you recruit JUCOs just as hard as anything else).

Also... Rodney Purvis was very likely Missouri-bound before the Miami stuff surfaced. That would make this class look quite a bit different.

The JW3/Wes Clark-led 2013 class is going to be more typical of what Haith and co. recruit, IMO. And they are chasing a lot of big names for the 2014 class (Cliff Alexander, DeAngelo Russell, Devin Booker, the Black kid from Memphis, Chris Chiozza,etc).

Haith is going to recruit at a good level, IMO, as long as he keeps a strong staff around him. Tim Fuller is a recruiting beast.

[gblowfish]

One of my KU pals gave me a Norfolk State Basketball TShirt for Christmas.
Next year he gets a Bucknell Shirt....

[NewChief]

Originally Posted by gblowfish

One of my KU pals gave me a Norfolk State Basketball TShirt for Christmas.
Next year he gets a Bucknell Shirt....

That's cold. I was going to post the attached photo with the post "See what really happened between Anderson and Haith," but decided that would be a dick move.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

This recruiting class hasn't shown a ton, but Haith was working from a tough spot considering the short cycle (which any coach faces - other than guys you were recruiting at your previous job, it is tough to turn much around in your first recruiting class at a new school). Webster-Chan was clearly miscast as a primary ball handler and got his confidence crushed, but I think he might be a decent SEC player. Never a star, but a solid guy by the time he's a junior/senior. He has been playing better in bit duty the past few games.

Jankovic will be all about his defensive evolution. His offensive skills are clearly there and offer a lot of upside as a face-4.

Criswell has turned out to be a very nice JUCO target (which I don't really count as a normal transfer - you recruit JUCOs just as hard as anything else).

Also... Rodney Purvis was very likely Missouri-bound before the Miami stuff surfaced. That would make this class look quite a bit different.

The JW3/Wes Clark-led 2013 class is going to be more typical of what Haith and co. recruit, IMO. And they are chasing a lot of big names for the 2014 class (Cliff Alexander, DeAngelo Russell, Devin Booker, the Black kid from Memphis, Chris Chiozza,etc).

Haith is going to recruit at a good level, IMO, as long as he keeps a strong staff around him. Tim Fuller is a recruiting beast.

I wouldn't get too used to Tim Fuller. If we have him in 2014, I'll be surprised and happy. If we have him in 2015, I'll be stunned. If Mizzou has any success at all over the next couple of years, I see him getting a HC gig.

Like I said when the show-cause rumors surfaced, I think Mizzou would be better with Fuller as the HC long-term than Haith.

I do love that about the present leadership, though. They're making some serious investments in the staff around Haith and it's paying off.

The 2014 class could be a major turning point class for us. If that thing goes well, Haith's put the program right back on track. At that point, you can say that he's turned the Titanic and has it heading in the right direction.

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

Originally Posted by PGM

So much for getting embarrased in SEC play

Get a grip. This conference is pathetic in basketball. Texas A&M lost to Southern, has a coach with Parkinson's, have limited talent with 8 scholarship players, and even they won 7 games in the SEC.

[gblowfish]

Ouch.
Seriously.