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Old 07-16-2018, 07:38 AM  
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Europe’s Dependence on the U.S. Was All Part of the Plan

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As feared, the president of the United States arrived at last week’s NATO summit in a mood of preposterous spleen, profound contempt and shocking rudeness. He insisted on sharing before the cameras imaginary facts that hadn’t a thing to do with the summit agenda, and he refused to listen to anyone who tried, however gently, to correct him. In the words of Robert Kagan, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, “These are not negotiating tactics. They are the tactics of someone who does not want a deal.” In a private meeting, Donald Trump reportedly threatened that unless the allies boosted their military spending beyond previous agreements by January, the United States would “go it alone.” Nicholas Burns, a former U.S. ambassador to NATO, implored Americans not to “normalize” this. “He is the first American president since Harry Truman,” Burns noted, “to not believe that NATO is central to American national security interests.” And Burns is a Republican.

Trump’s NATO-bashing surprised no one. He has repeatedly suggested the United States’ postwar security architecture is a “bad deal,” one negotiated by weak and foolish “incompetents.” Foreign policy, in his view, is a zero-sum game; any benefit to another nation must of necessity be a loss for the United States. “NATO countries,” he declared on Twitter, “must pay MORE, the United States must pay LESS. Very Unfair!”

Unfair? A world that revolves around American military, economic and cultural power, and uses the U.S. dollar as its reserve currency?

What Trump fails to understand is that the disparity in spending, with the U.S. paying more than its allies, is not a bug of the system. It is a feature. This is how the great postwar statesmen designed it, and this immensely foresighted strategy has ensured the absence of great power conflict—and nuclear war—for three-quarters of a century.
....

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Indeed, Europeans cooperated with the U.S. program because it created conditions under which both the United States and Europe flourished. The United States assisted Europe’s postwar economic recovery with $13 billion of aid in the form of the Marshall Plan. (In today’s dollars, roughly $113 billion.) It midwifed the groupings and treaties that would become the European Union. It brought Europe under the U.S. security umbrella with the NATO treaty. Article V of the treaty, its most important element, declares that an attack on one member of NATO is an attack on all members. These policies were intended not only to counter the Soviet Union, but to condition Europe’s prosperity upon its integration into a single market, with free movement of goods, capital and labor. The founders of these institutions fully intended them to be the foundations of a United States of Europe, much like the United States of America. Profound economic interdependence, they believed, would make further European wars impossible.

At the same time, the United States built an open, global order upon an architecture of specific institutions: the United Nations, the International Monetary Fund and the International Court of Justice. This order is in many respects an empire—a Pax Americana—but it is more humane than any empire that preceded it, with institutions that are intended to benefit all parties. Postwar U.S. statesmen believed that prosperous, liberal democracies that traded freely with each other would neither go to war with each other nor the United States. They ascribed, in other words, to the so-called Democratic Peace theory—a theory with overwhelming empirical support.

The U.S. military was always an integral part of the plan to unite and rebuild Europe from the rubble. Since World War II, U.S. troops have been deployed in Eurasia to ensure the continent cannot be dominated by a single power capable of monopolizing its resources and turning them against the U.S. The United States has built overwhelmingly massive military assets there to deter local arms races before they begin, and it has simultaneously assured those under U.S. protection that there is no need to begin local arms races, for their safety is guaranteed. American grand strategy rests upon the credibility of its promise to protect American allies; this credibility rests, in turn, upon U.S. willingness to display its commitment. (The Berlin Airlift, when U.S. troops airlifted supplies to Berlin during a Soviet blockade, was precisely such a display.) In return for the United States’ commitment, U.S. allies have accepted America’s dominant role in the international system.
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The Soviet Union’s criticism of the Marshall Plan and other American involvement in Europe was eerily similar to the language Russia’s now uses in its campaign to undermine NATO and the EU. The vocabulary and tropes of Russian propaganda are widely echoed, wittingly or unwittingly, by far-right, far-left and other antiliberal politicians, parties and movements throughout the West. With the men who built the postwar world order now in their graves, and the memory of carnage and horror buried with them, a very sizable constituency of Americans has forgotten that their country built this system for a reason—that the United States does not maintain its alliances as an act of foolish largesse. The loudest exponent of the idea that the U.S. is getting rolled, that the European Union was “created to destroy us,” and that multilateral institutions such as the World Trade Organization assault the “sovereignty” of the nations concerned is, unfortunately, the president of the United States.
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It is true that the U.S. spends more on its military, in absolute dollars and as a percentage of GDP, than any European country. That was always part of the deal. The U.S. is a global superpower. It can fight a war anywhere in the world, invade any country at will, and (at least in theory) fight multiple simultaneous major wars—even in space. Of course this costs more. It is in America’s advantage to be the only power on the planet that can do this.

Conversely, it is not remotely in America’s advantage for other countries to spend as much money on their militaries as we do. Europe is America’s biggest export market, as designed. We want Europeans to spend their money enjoying U.S. goods and services, not razing Flanders to the ground yet again.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...endence-219011

I'll now wait for the Trump/Putin talking points.
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Old 07-19-2018, 06:40 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
My God, I can smell your desperation from here. And this is only counting the comments you aren't too pussy to post in public.

The article was about how and why NATO was founded, in part to help stabilize Europe and maintain that stability, keeping Europe from an arms race, and how that was designed with American interests. Trumps stupid complaints were about things designed that way by us for us, and he is probably just doing what Putin tells him too.

You have spent an insane amount of time doing everything except read the article and comment on it.

You do you.
^
Took 8 years to graduate undergrad.
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Old 07-19-2018, 06:53 PM   #62
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I think what Loneidiot is trying to say is NATO's best years are behind them.
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Old 07-19-2018, 11:54 PM
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Old 07-20-2018, 12:56 AM
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Old 07-20-2018, 04:51 AM   #63
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Originally Posted by JohnnyV13 View Post
Maybe it took LoneIdiot 8 years to pass undergrad since he was so distracted smelling "desperation" from everyone else around him.

Look how many times I tried to explain the difference between "evidence" and "definitive proof" to him, and he still just doesn't get it.
You still think saying the author is a women is evidence of something. And you have to lie about me thinking its "proof". How pathetically desperate.

"Okay class, who can show they read the assignment?"
"I can. The author is women".



My. God. You. Are. Stupid.
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Old 07-20-2018, 04:56 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by vailpass View Post
^
Took 8 years to graduate undergrad.
Yeah, it can take awhile when you only take a class or 2 a semester.

How insecure do you have to be to bring that up about that post though?
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Old 07-20-2018, 05:02 AM   #65
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Originally Posted by JohnnyV13 View Post
Well, I must confess, I did get rather bored with the lack of interesting ideas or intellectual challenge I have gotten from this protracted exchange with LoneIdiot, so I took to amusing myself by bombing him with neg rep.

Here's the comments I made to him along with the neg rep in order:

1. Moron

2. Hurling "pussy" as an insult is demeans women you misogynist pig. Not only are you a brain dead loser you're also a hypocrit

3. Ok you single digit IQ moron, I wrote about your article. Where's your answer. Oh guess what, you can't answer. Because you just aren't smart

4. Your silence has proved my point. You have nothing to say because you have never sparked an original idea in your life. However, must be hard with 3 brain cells

5. See, this article is far less brilliant than you thought. You obviously can't defend it even from my first salvo. I got a lot more. You got nothing. U need to understand that you're stupid, and stop trying to fight with your defective intellect

6. Someone as stupid as you shouldn't condescend toward others.

7.What you fail to realize is you are one of the idiots. Here, I'll save you a lot of embarrassment. Realize 1) my teachers weren't lying when they put you [I meant to write me] in special ed, 2) if i thought of it, it's the thoughts of an idiot, 3) maybe I should shut up.

8.Good thing the founding fathers never met you. The 1st Amendment would never have passed.

9.Thinking and learning are much more difficult than reading. But, I suppose you might learn that if you can get past Run Spot Run

10. Clearly, advertisements work on YOU. Just look how you fall for political propaganda.

11. Dumbass, it very well is evidence, it's just not definitive proof. Learn the difference before proclaiming yourself this generation's pre-eminent scholar of legal jurisprudence

12. I'm just asking you to explain how the petro dollar strengthening US currency increases US global power. It's a key point of the argument you're trying to make.

13. Of course you put it simply. That's the ONLY way you can put anything


Now, I'm admittedly biased. But, I've made no secret of my contempt for LoneIdiot's intellect in this thread. Personally, I think these comments are similar in tone to the statements I have openly posted. Consequently, I don't see any reason not to post these as well since Lone apparently wants me to. I must confess, I haven't exactly been nice. But, c'mon, I've been bored to tears.

But, hey, I really don't want Lone to have any difficulty portraying me as a bully, or a racist, or a sexist, or whatever other violation of acceptable social norms a progressive like him is able to dream up. PLEASE DO SOMETHING INTERESTING, LONE. I'M BEGGING HERE!!!
There you spending way to much time barking and zero time biting.

Why dont yoi just read the article and talk about rather than wasting all this time trying to cover up the fact you didn't read the article through stupidly long rants?

You have ran away from reading the article like a pussy.
You have ran away from answering my questions. For example, can China staff military bases on Europe or the middle east. Like a pussy.

All you have done is bark like a little dog, but not post a single thing of substance about the article.

Its yugely transparent how desperate you are.
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Old 07-20-2018, 05:05 AM   #66
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
My God, I can smell your desperation from here. And this is only counting the comments you aren't too pussy to post in public.

The article was about how and why NATO was founded, in part to help stabilize Europe and maintain that stability, keeping Europe from an arms race, and how that was designed with American interests. Trumps stupid complaints were about things designed that way by us for us, and he is probably just doing what Putin tells him too.

You have spent an insane amount of time doing everything except read the article and comment on it.

You do you.
Hey pussy, why didnt you quote and respond to the whole comment?

Is it because I again showed you to be a complete dumbass who cant connect three different comments? That you lack reading comprehension and cant understand how those three comments were about the same article? Or how it was just more evidence you havent read the article yet because of you had, you wouldn't have posted such a desperate post?

What a cowardly dumnass.
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Old 07-20-2018, 06:18 AM   #67
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But the ruling elite in both parties and the America's corporate media elite are owned by the international banking oligarchs who want to get paid. Which explains the ruling elite's and corporate media's hatred for Trump and his supporters.
Excellent Point!

I think it's absolute rubbish that Trump wanted to become president to get rich or help is businesses—many which have taken hits since he's been president. Too much shit to put up with in a job like that, including threats on his life and entire family, when he had a much easier lifestyle—and he'd be the boss with no checks and balances.

As for Truman, a lot of our problems started with him regarding the executive branch thinking they did not need congress to for war making.
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Old 07-20-2018, 06:28 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by JohnnyV13 View Post

Of course, Trump is on yet another higher tier than the Clintons. He's just fine with letting people hand him money through his business empire to curry political favors. Do you doubt that the Trump clan sees the presidency as a massive branding opportunity?


Your opinion is based on pure speculation. It's usually the other way around when someone as wealthy as Trump runs—they can't be bought the way the Clintons could. He doesn't need a govt job to get rich, he already was as opposed to most of Congress and the Clintons. Plus living in public housing isn't appealing to him. The WH is a severe downgrade for what he is used to. It's actually run-down in many ways.

In fact, the opposite has happened to Trump's wealth. Forbes reported his net worth tumbled $400 million.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalex.../#334834f51357
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Old 07-20-2018, 07:20 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by baitism View Post
We don't want to defend the whole world...
The UN troops can take care of that!
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Old 07-20-2018, 11:18 AM
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Old 07-20-2018, 11:31 AM   #70
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Originally Posted by JohnnyV13 View Post
Well, LoneIdiot, you keep whining that my posts are too long. So I broke it down into something manageable for you. This necessarily means I don't address the whole post.

Since you've harped on the idea that I've been too "scared" to post the things I've been saying to you in neg rep comments, I got the idea that you wanted to use those comments to well...I don't know b/c I can't possibly follow your reasoning since (do I really need to repeat what I think of your intellect here? I think not, I've done that enough).

I'm bending over backward to be cooperative and accomodating to you.

I mean really, Lone. If you can mount some kind of interesting, or challenging attack on me, I certainly don't want to deny you this opportunity. I'm passing out from boredom. You keep saying how smart you are and how you want people to talk about your brilliant articles. I'm just WAITING to see that genious (CP spelling). I don't want you to say no one ever gave you a chance.
There you are spending a lot of time not answering my questions or actually responding to what I wrote.

And I have never made any claims to how smart I am. Your insecurity flaring up or something?

But I get it. Like the pussy you are, you arent going to respond to what i actually write and wont answer the questions i pose to you. Sad!
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Old 07-20-2018, 11:39 AM
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Old 07-20-2018, 11:42 AM   #71
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Hey, LoneIdiot, let's make a deal. I'll address your question about China if you explain to me how oil transactions being denominated in dollars expands U.S. power and enhances their ability to dominate the globe.

HEY....seems VERY fair to me.

Sounds like a pussys way out of answering a question you want to run away from.

I'm sorry you dont understand how a strenghtned dollar that is basically a world currency benefits america, but that's not my problem.
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Old 07-20-2018, 12:02 PM
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Old 07-20-2018, 12:11 PM
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Old 07-20-2018, 12:26 PM   #72
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You know, LoneIdiot, just 5 minutes ago I came to the realization that I am, indeed a woman and will now take steps to transition to my true self.

Since, according to you progressives, my gender identity is whatever I say it is, I'm really insulted that you continue to objectify me by calling me a pussy. Plus, since it will be a long time until I will be able to get gender confirmation surgery (if I decide to do so. However, even if I decide to keep my tallywag, it in no way diminishes my womanhood), you constantly calling me a pussy is incredibly cruel, since you're taunting me with something I desperately wish I had.

Please refrain from these misogynistic attacks. They're really quite hurtful. Especially since they're coming from a progressive (who supposedly supports people like me). This failure to receive validation from someone who supposedly is on my side is threatening to push me to such despair, I am very well considering joining the 50% of gender variant individuals who have attempted suicide at some time in their lives.

How could you be so cruel?
Okay Pussy. You do you. (Which is apparently everything except read the article and respond to what I actually type. )
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Old 07-20-2018, 12:29 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by JohnnyV13 View Post
Yes, I'm completely puzzled by the mysteries of how the petro dollar interacts with world currency markets. PLEASE ENLIGHTEN ME, LONEIDIOT. I'M PLEADING WITH YOU.

I mean really, this is the WHOLE REASON I engaged with this discussion is to drink at the unending font of wisdom that, so far, you've been selfishly witholding from me, making my VERY EXISTENCE completely unfulfilled.

I am SO DESPERATE for this enlightenment, that I will promise to answer first if you commit to responding to my question. However, to make sure you don't take my answer, then deny me the great gift of your eternal wisdom, you have to pledge to allow me to change your name and add a tag to your account for the next calendar year if you refuse to keep your end of the bargain.

Just so you know what's on the table here, I intend to change your name from Loneiguana to "CP Pinata" and the tag will be "Please hit me, I love the abuse."

Well, what about it Lone. I'm waiting.

You think I don't know that? All you have done the last 2 pages is attempt to bait me into your "look at me and how smart I am rambling on and on about random shit" as if your insecurity flared up and you have something to prove.

Its endlessly amusing. You think I care what you think when all you've done is ramble and run away from any question or article content.

So give me another 200 word fart where pat yourself on the back. Its great friday fun reading material. The best part is that you actually think you are doing something other than rambling.
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Old 07-20-2018, 12:40 PM
JohnnyV13
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Old 07-20-2018, 12:55 PM   #74
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyV13 View Post
Ya know, this could very well be true. Let's assume it is. It doesn't really matter. If you want, I can post endless quotes of you being condescending to people who don't agree with your political opinions. This is why I decided to amuse myself by demonstrating just how ridiculous it is for you to condescend to anyone, once and for all.

If you learned a little humility, I would leave you alone.

This is NOT sarcasm. It's 100% genuine.
Yes, I love being condescending to assholes whose political knowledge is "everyone who doesn't agree with me is a communist/socialist."

Just like I love being condescending to complete idiots who think more or longer words make you sound smart. Who just ramble on and on without saying anything.

And their responses are great. All in all its a win win.
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Posts: 19,638
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Old 07-20-2018, 01:56 PM
JohnnyV13
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Old 07-20-2018, 02:12 PM
JohnnyV13
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Old 07-20-2018, 02:23 PM   #75
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyV13 View Post
Then why not take my deal?

1. I'll answer the China question which you clearly believe's is on point, helps your argument, and is about the article.

2. Since I'm just a little yapping dropkick dog with no bite, why worry about my stupid trap?

3. You can get even more amusement from my pointless ramblings and big words when I spring what is certainly to be a completely not relevant trap that shows just how smart I think I am. To your mind, I'll just be establishing my stupidity.

Really, how can you lose?
Every post, you make less and less sense, yet still keep it just as entertaining.

Truly, you are a master of the "say nothing" craft.
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