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Old 07-16-2018, 07:38 AM  
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Europe’s Dependence on the U.S. Was All Part of the Plan

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As feared, the president of the United States arrived at last week’s NATO summit in a mood of preposterous spleen, profound contempt and shocking rudeness. He insisted on sharing before the cameras imaginary facts that hadn’t a thing to do with the summit agenda, and he refused to listen to anyone who tried, however gently, to correct him. In the words of Robert Kagan, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, “These are not negotiating tactics. They are the tactics of someone who does not want a deal.” In a private meeting, Donald Trump reportedly threatened that unless the allies boosted their military spending beyond previous agreements by January, the United States would “go it alone.” Nicholas Burns, a former U.S. ambassador to NATO, implored Americans not to “normalize” this. “He is the first American president since Harry Truman,” Burns noted, “to not believe that NATO is central to American national security interests.” And Burns is a Republican.

Trump’s NATO-bashing surprised no one. He has repeatedly suggested the United States’ postwar security architecture is a “bad deal,” one negotiated by weak and foolish “incompetents.” Foreign policy, in his view, is a zero-sum game; any benefit to another nation must of necessity be a loss for the United States. “NATO countries,” he declared on Twitter, “must pay MORE, the United States must pay LESS. Very Unfair!”

Unfair? A world that revolves around American military, economic and cultural power, and uses the U.S. dollar as its reserve currency?

What Trump fails to understand is that the disparity in spending, with the U.S. paying more than its allies, is not a bug of the system. It is a feature. This is how the great postwar statesmen designed it, and this immensely foresighted strategy has ensured the absence of great power conflict—and nuclear war—for three-quarters of a century.
....

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Indeed, Europeans cooperated with the U.S. program because it created conditions under which both the United States and Europe flourished. The United States assisted Europe’s postwar economic recovery with $13 billion of aid in the form of the Marshall Plan. (In today’s dollars, roughly $113 billion.) It midwifed the groupings and treaties that would become the European Union. It brought Europe under the U.S. security umbrella with the NATO treaty. Article V of the treaty, its most important element, declares that an attack on one member of NATO is an attack on all members. These policies were intended not only to counter the Soviet Union, but to condition Europe’s prosperity upon its integration into a single market, with free movement of goods, capital and labor. The founders of these institutions fully intended them to be the foundations of a United States of Europe, much like the United States of America. Profound economic interdependence, they believed, would make further European wars impossible.

At the same time, the United States built an open, global order upon an architecture of specific institutions: the United Nations, the International Monetary Fund and the International Court of Justice. This order is in many respects an empire—a Pax Americana—but it is more humane than any empire that preceded it, with institutions that are intended to benefit all parties. Postwar U.S. statesmen believed that prosperous, liberal democracies that traded freely with each other would neither go to war with each other nor the United States. They ascribed, in other words, to the so-called Democratic Peace theory—a theory with overwhelming empirical support.

The U.S. military was always an integral part of the plan to unite and rebuild Europe from the rubble. Since World War II, U.S. troops have been deployed in Eurasia to ensure the continent cannot be dominated by a single power capable of monopolizing its resources and turning them against the U.S. The United States has built overwhelmingly massive military assets there to deter local arms races before they begin, and it has simultaneously assured those under U.S. protection that there is no need to begin local arms races, for their safety is guaranteed. American grand strategy rests upon the credibility of its promise to protect American allies; this credibility rests, in turn, upon U.S. willingness to display its commitment. (The Berlin Airlift, when U.S. troops airlifted supplies to Berlin during a Soviet blockade, was precisely such a display.) In return for the United States’ commitment, U.S. allies have accepted America’s dominant role in the international system.
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The Soviet Union’s criticism of the Marshall Plan and other American involvement in Europe was eerily similar to the language Russia’s now uses in its campaign to undermine NATO and the EU. The vocabulary and tropes of Russian propaganda are widely echoed, wittingly or unwittingly, by far-right, far-left and other antiliberal politicians, parties and movements throughout the West. With the men who built the postwar world order now in their graves, and the memory of carnage and horror buried with them, a very sizable constituency of Americans has forgotten that their country built this system for a reason—that the United States does not maintain its alliances as an act of foolish largesse. The loudest exponent of the idea that the U.S. is getting rolled, that the European Union was “created to destroy us,” and that multilateral institutions such as the World Trade Organization assault the “sovereignty” of the nations concerned is, unfortunately, the president of the United States.
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It is true that the U.S. spends more on its military, in absolute dollars and as a percentage of GDP, than any European country. That was always part of the deal. The U.S. is a global superpower. It can fight a war anywhere in the world, invade any country at will, and (at least in theory) fight multiple simultaneous major wars—even in space. Of course this costs more. It is in America’s advantage to be the only power on the planet that can do this.

Conversely, it is not remotely in America’s advantage for other countries to spend as much money on their militaries as we do. Europe is America’s biggest export market, as designed. We want Europeans to spend their money enjoying U.S. goods and services, not razing Flanders to the ground yet again.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...endence-219011

I'll now wait for the Trump/Putin talking points.
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Old 07-19-2018, 10:50 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyV13 View Post
LoneIdiot, I’m saying that international oil transactions being denominated in dollars strengthens the US dollar in world currency markets. If you want it claim it means anything more than that, you have to make the argument. How you make that case is up to you, Lone, I’m here to be englightened by your brilliance and insight. Why would I deny myself on scintilla of your genious (CP spelling).
"I refuse to accept your point I agree with unless you explain why a strengthened dollar is good for America."

Are you even aware of what you type?
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Old 07-19-2018, 11:00 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Saying the author is a girl isn't evidence you read anything.

Goddamn, how dumb do you have to be to triple down on something that stupid.
Well, I’ve been talking to you quite a bit for the last couple of days. As a result, I’m getting dumber and dumber. If I continue for another couple of days, I’ll probably be down to negative IQ levels
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Old 07-19-2018, 11:10 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
"I refuse to accept your point I agree with unless you explain why a strengthened dollar is good for America."

Are you even aware of what you type?
This is exactly what I want you to do. Explain why a stronger dollar helps expand American power and dominance across the globe.

When you do, I’m going to laugh myself silly. Star Wars fans would refer to this situation as a real Admiral Akbar moment.

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Old 07-19-2018, 03:13 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
2)The article is about why a stable Europe that isn't doing an arms buildup is in America's interest and why American Military presence helps achieve this.
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
This article is about how and why NATO was founded and the how that has greatly helped the US. How they way it is designed and everything Trump complains about (For Putin) is designed that way for our benefit.
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
It wasn't about status quo, it was about trumps stupid comments and why they are stupid. I can tell you havent read the article.

Ok, LoneIdiot, just as a point of information just WHAT is your famous article about (which appeared on Politico.com and was written by Claire Berlinsky). Apparently, this thing is really a magical article produced by Hogwarts because it constantly changes what it's about every time LoneIdiot talks about it.

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Old 07-19-2018, 06:28 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyV13 View Post
Ok, LoneIdiot, just as a point of information just WHAT is your famous article about (which appeared on Politico.com and was written by Claire Berlinsky). Apparently, this thing is really a magical article produced by Hogwarts because it constantly changes what it's about every time LoneIdiot talks about it.
My God, I can smell your desperation from here. And this is only counting the comments you aren't too pussy to post in public.

The article was about how and why NATO was founded, in part to help stabilize Europe and maintain that stability, keeping Europe from an arms race, and how that was designed with American interests. Trumps stupid complaints were about things designed that way by us for us, and he is probably just doing what Putin tells him too.

You have spent an insane amount of time doing everything except read the article and comment on it.

You do you.
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Old 07-19-2018, 06:40 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
My God, I can smell your desperation from here. And this is only counting the comments you aren't too pussy to post in public.

The article was about how and why NATO was founded, in part to help stabilize Europe and maintain that stability, keeping Europe from an arms race, and how that was designed with American interests. Trumps stupid complaints were about things designed that way by us for us, and he is probably just doing what Putin tells him too.

You have spent an insane amount of time doing everything except read the article and comment on it.

You do you.
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Old 07-19-2018, 06:53 PM   #82
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I think what Loneidiot is trying to say is NATO's best years are behind them.
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Old 07-19-2018, 11:54 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by vailpass View Post
^
Took 8 years to graduate undergrad.
Maybe it took LoneIdiot 8 years to pass undergrad since he was so distracted smelling "desperation" from everyone else around him.

Look how many times I tried to explain the difference between "evidence" and "definitive proof" to him, and he still just doesn't get it.
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Old 07-20-2018, 12:56 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
And this is only counting the comments you aren't too pussy to post in public.
Well, I must confess, I did get rather bored with the lack of interesting ideas or intellectual challenge I have gotten from this protracted exchange with LoneIdiot, so I took to amusing myself by bombing him with neg rep.

Here's the comments I made to him along with the neg rep in order:

1. Moron

2. Hurling "pussy" as an insult is demeans women you misogynist pig. Not only are you a brain dead loser you're also a hypocrit

3. Ok you single digit IQ moron, I wrote about your article. Where's your answer. Oh guess what, you can't answer. Because you just aren't smart

4. Your silence has proved my point. You have nothing to say because you have never sparked an original idea in your life. However, must be hard with 3 brain cells

5. See, this article is far less brilliant than you thought. You obviously can't defend it even from my first salvo. I got a lot more. You got nothing. U need to understand that you're stupid, and stop trying to fight with your defective intellect

6. Someone as stupid as you shouldn't condescend toward others.

7.What you fail to realize is you are one of the idiots. Here, I'll save you a lot of embarrassment. Realize 1) my teachers weren't lying when they put you [I meant to write me] in special ed, 2) if i thought of it, it's the thoughts of an idiot, 3) maybe I should shut up.

8.Good thing the founding fathers never met you. The 1st Amendment would never have passed.

9.Thinking and learning are much more difficult than reading. But, I suppose you might learn that if you can get past Run Spot Run

10. Clearly, advertisements work on YOU. Just look how you fall for political propaganda.

11. Dumbass, it very well is evidence, it's just not definitive proof. Learn the difference before proclaiming yourself this generation's pre-eminent scholar of legal jurisprudence

12. I'm just asking you to explain how the petro dollar strengthening US currency increases US global power. It's a key point of the argument you're trying to make.

13. Of course you put it simply. That's the ONLY way you can put anything


Now, I'm admittedly biased. But, I've made no secret of my contempt for LoneIdiot's intellect in this thread. Personally, I think these comments are similar in tone to the statements I have openly posted. Consequently, I don't see any reason not to post these as well since Lone apparently wants me to. I must confess, I haven't exactly been nice. But, c'mon, I've been bored to tears.

But, hey, I really don't want Lone to have any difficulty portraying me as a bully, or a racist, or a sexist, or whatever other violation of acceptable social norms a progressive like him is able to dream up. PLEASE DO SOMETHING INTERESTING, LONE. I'M BEGGING HERE!!!

Last edited by JohnnyV13; 07-20-2018 at 01:02 AM..
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Old 07-20-2018, 04:51 AM   #85
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyV13 View Post
Maybe it took LoneIdiot 8 years to pass undergrad since he was so distracted smelling "desperation" from everyone else around him.

Look how many times I tried to explain the difference between "evidence" and "definitive proof" to him, and he still just doesn't get it.
You still think saying the author is a women is evidence of something. And you have to lie about me thinking its "proof". How pathetically desperate.

"Okay class, who can show they read the assignment?"
"I can. The author is women".



My. God. You. Are. Stupid.
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Old 07-20-2018, 04:56 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vailpass View Post
^
Took 8 years to graduate undergrad.
Yeah, it can take awhile when you only take a class or 2 a semester.

How insecure do you have to be to bring that up about that post though?
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Old 07-20-2018, 05:02 AM   #87
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyV13 View Post
Well, I must confess, I did get rather bored with the lack of interesting ideas or intellectual challenge I have gotten from this protracted exchange with LoneIdiot, so I took to amusing myself by bombing him with neg rep.

Here's the comments I made to him along with the neg rep in order:

1. Moron

2. Hurling "pussy" as an insult is demeans women you misogynist pig. Not only are you a brain dead loser you're also a hypocrit

3. Ok you single digit IQ moron, I wrote about your article. Where's your answer. Oh guess what, you can't answer. Because you just aren't smart

4. Your silence has proved my point. You have nothing to say because you have never sparked an original idea in your life. However, must be hard with 3 brain cells

5. See, this article is far less brilliant than you thought. You obviously can't defend it even from my first salvo. I got a lot more. You got nothing. U need to understand that you're stupid, and stop trying to fight with your defective intellect

6. Someone as stupid as you shouldn't condescend toward others.

7.What you fail to realize is you are one of the idiots. Here, I'll save you a lot of embarrassment. Realize 1) my teachers weren't lying when they put you [I meant to write me] in special ed, 2) if i thought of it, it's the thoughts of an idiot, 3) maybe I should shut up.

8.Good thing the founding fathers never met you. The 1st Amendment would never have passed.

9.Thinking and learning are much more difficult than reading. But, I suppose you might learn that if you can get past Run Spot Run

10. Clearly, advertisements work on YOU. Just look how you fall for political propaganda.

11. Dumbass, it very well is evidence, it's just not definitive proof. Learn the difference before proclaiming yourself this generation's pre-eminent scholar of legal jurisprudence

12. I'm just asking you to explain how the petro dollar strengthening US currency increases US global power. It's a key point of the argument you're trying to make.

13. Of course you put it simply. That's the ONLY way you can put anything


Now, I'm admittedly biased. But, I've made no secret of my contempt for LoneIdiot's intellect in this thread. Personally, I think these comments are similar in tone to the statements I have openly posted. Consequently, I don't see any reason not to post these as well since Lone apparently wants me to. I must confess, I haven't exactly been nice. But, c'mon, I've been bored to tears.

But, hey, I really don't want Lone to have any difficulty portraying me as a bully, or a racist, or a sexist, or whatever other violation of acceptable social norms a progressive like him is able to dream up. PLEASE DO SOMETHING INTERESTING, LONE. I'M BEGGING HERE!!!
There you spending way to much time barking and zero time biting.

Why dont yoi just read the article and talk about rather than wasting all this time trying to cover up the fact you didn't read the article through stupidly long rants?

You have ran away from reading the article like a pussy.
You have ran away from answering my questions. For example, can China staff military bases on Europe or the middle east. Like a pussy.

All you have done is bark like a little dog, but not post a single thing of substance about the article.

Its yugely transparent how desperate you are.
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Old 07-20-2018, 05:05 AM   #88
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
My God, I can smell your desperation from here. And this is only counting the comments you aren't too pussy to post in public.

The article was about how and why NATO was founded, in part to help stabilize Europe and maintain that stability, keeping Europe from an arms race, and how that was designed with American interests. Trumps stupid complaints were about things designed that way by us for us, and he is probably just doing what Putin tells him too.

You have spent an insane amount of time doing everything except read the article and comment on it.

You do you.
Hey pussy, why didnt you quote and respond to the whole comment?

Is it because I again showed you to be a complete dumbass who cant connect three different comments? That you lack reading comprehension and cant understand how those three comments were about the same article? Or how it was just more evidence you havent read the article yet because of you had, you wouldn't have posted such a desperate post?

What a cowardly dumnass.
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Old 07-20-2018, 06:18 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by gonefishin53 View Post
But the ruling elite in both parties and the America's corporate media elite are owned by the international banking oligarchs who want to get paid. Which explains the ruling elite's and corporate media's hatred for Trump and his supporters.
Excellent Point!

I think it's absolute rubbish that Trump wanted to become president to get rich or help is businesses—many which have taken hits since he's been president. Too much shit to put up with in a job like that, including threats on his life and entire family, when he had a much easier lifestyle—and he'd be the boss with no checks and balances.

As for Truman, a lot of our problems started with him regarding the executive branch thinking they did not need congress to for war making.
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Old 07-20-2018, 06:28 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyV13 View Post

Of course, Trump is on yet another higher tier than the Clintons. He's just fine with letting people hand him money through his business empire to curry political favors. Do you doubt that the Trump clan sees the presidency as a massive branding opportunity?


Your opinion is based on pure speculation. It's usually the other way around when someone as wealthy as Trump runs—they can't be bought the way the Clintons could. He doesn't need a govt job to get rich, he already was as opposed to most of Congress and the Clintons. Plus living in public housing isn't appealing to him. The WH is a severe downgrade for what he is used to. It's actually run-down in many ways.

In fact, the opposite has happened to Trump's wealth. Forbes reported his net worth tumbled $400 million.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalex.../#334834f51357
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