Mike and Mike Talking about Geno going #1 overall

[Hoover]

It was just a matter of time. Obviously the Chiefs don't need him but they are helping create a market for a trade.

Apparently Jaws loves the kid.

[B14ckmon]

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

I have little doubt Geno will be a Buffalo Bill. They are the most desperate at this point.

I guarantee they take Nassib in the second.

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by Fish

I'm not sure what you mean when you say my analysis stops there. I'm not advocating that the Chiefs simply draft by importance of the position played. Not in the least.

You are when your criticism of people who don't think they should draft Geno rests on the basis of the importance of the QB position alone. The fact that you laughed at my "so what" instead of recognizing it as a serious response suggests (to me at least) that you thought your "importance of the QB" argument was the only necessary argument to support the selection of a QB over a LT.

Originally Posted by Fish

Regarding what the draft prospect will become.... Well... that's the complete unknown in the equation. You cannot ever know for sure, no matter what the position. There will always be Tony Mandrich's and JaMarcus Russell's. Picking Luke Joeckel has the same bust potential as picking Geno Smith. You cannot prove otherwise. You seem convinced that QB is less safe than other positions with regards to future ability, but that's just not the case. The picks at tackle aren't any safer than the picks at QB. So why not take a risk on the one that's the more important position? If Geno looked questionable, and Joeckel looked ironclad it might be a different approach. But there's no definitive #1, so why wouldn't you choose to take the guy with the highest franchise improving potential?

See, there you go. You're stuck in the "all else is equal" analysis that I described. That's what I meant when I said your analysis seems to stop there. (Obviously, it stops there because your personal assessment is that they're both equal bust risks, which is fine for you but you need to recognize that that "all else is equal" assessment isn't a universal truth).

No, I can't prove otherwise. I'm not trying to prove otherwise. I'm pointing out that some people with an eye for talent that's at least as good as yours may well come to a different assessment than you do. If you see the players as equal prospects, you're right to prefer the QB. But if Reid/Dorsey see Geno as a journeyman and Joeckel as a first ballot Hall of Famer, your "more important position" analysis is pretty worthless.

[DTLB58]

So has this been posted yet?

@Jeff_McLane: Just asked Andy Reid about Geno Smith and the possibility of Chiefs taking him No. 1: "I don't have to worry about him because I have ...
"... the first pick. You get what I'm saying?"

[B14ckmon]

Originally Posted by DTLB58

So has this been posted yet?

@Jeff_McLane: Just asked Andy Reid about Geno Smith and the possibility of Chiefs taking him No. 1: "I don't have to worry about him because I have ...
"... the first pick. You get what I'm saying?"

Oh you sweet angel.

[Rausch]

Originally Posted by DTLB58

So has this been posted yet?

@Jeff_McLane: Just asked Andy Reid about Geno Smith and the possibility of Chiefs taking him No. 1: "I don't have to worry about him because I have ...
"... the first pick. You get what I'm saying?"

I love it!

[Fish]

Originally Posted by patteeu

You are when your criticism of people who don't think they should draft Geno rests on the basis of the importance of the QB position alone. The fact that you laughed at my "so what" instead of recognizing it as a serious response suggests (to me at least) that you thought your "importance of the QB" argument was the only necessary argument to support the selection of a QB over a LT.



See, there you go. You're stuck in the "all else is equal" analysis that I described. That's what I meant when I said your analysis seems to stop there. (Obviously, it stops there because your personal assessment is that they're both equal bust risks, which is fine for you but you need to recognize that that "all else is equal" assessment isn't a universal truth).

No, I can't prove otherwise. I'm not trying to prove otherwise. I'm pointing out that some people with an eye for talent that's at least as good as yours may well come to a different assessment than you do. If you see the players as equal prospects, you're right to prefer the QB. But if Reid/Dorsey see Geno as a journeyman and Joeckel as a first ballot Hall of Famer, your "more important position" analysis is pretty worthless.

You're trying to apply "Equality" to two different aspects of the draft simultaneously.

The QB position is the most important position on offense. The QB and LT positions with regards to offensive production are not equal.

The bust potential of the LT and QB positions in the draft are equal.

Two different things. Both are relevant in their respective ways.

So if the Chiefs are deciding between QB and LT with the first pick, and neither position has a candidate that appears to be vastly better, and the risk of bust is relatively equal, then it's smarter to go with the one who's position is more important to the overall production of the team.

[OrtonsPiercedTaint]

Originally Posted by DTLB58

So has this been posted yet?

@Jeff_McLane: Just asked Andy Reid about Geno Smith and the possibility of Chiefs taking him No. 1: "I don't have to worry about him because I have ...
"... the first pick. You get what I'm saying?"

The #1 over all running your scout team would be pretty sweet/mini wheats dude

[Mav]

Originally Posted by Pestilence

If only ***** had taken Kaepernick instead of Baldwin (and this coming from a Baldwin fan).......Reid would have a QB to work with.

Any coach could of done with Kaepernick what Jim Harbaugh did?

Originally Posted by Molitoth

If Alex Smith goes 17-17, I doubt they will be in a position to draft higher then Draft pick #4 or #5. Which means another year of not being in the position to take the best QB prospect on the board. This is the ONE YEAR they have ever gotten a chance to pick the best QB in the draft, and they will pass for a Offensive Tackle.
The year the eagles drafted Mcnabb, they didnt even get the first qb off the board. You are talking about a draft that will have Clowney in it. if you are picking top 5, you can still get a great qb prospect.

Dorsey and Reid will look Monumentally stupid if Alex Smith doesn't pan out. I think this fan base would be a lot more forgiving if they took a chance on a QB through the draft. But of course you will get the true fans next year saying "8-8 is better than 2-14!!!!! Alex Smith is awesome!, he just needs more playmakers and a better Line!".

a +6 win total, is a success. No matter how you look at it.

Originally Posted by Dayze

as long as a QB gives us 8 wins at home, and allows me to have a blast at the tailgate....

You dont want much do you lol

Originally Posted by Pestilence

I've stated it before....but I'm not pissed about Alex Smith. I'm pissed about what we gave up for him. If it was a 4th round pick and a conditional pick next year....it would've been fine. He's an average QB who has games where he looks above average but he's injury prone and he takes a lot of sacks.

If the Alex Smith trade causes us to pass on Geno and take a LT at 1.1 because he needs an all world offensive line to protect him and we didn't want a "QB controversy"....then Reid and Dorsey can go **** themselves.

I hate to tell you this, well no i dont actually, but Geno Smith, any time he was pressured at west virginia, played pretty poorly. If you dont believe me, go watch the kansas state game. Geno Smith is going to need an offensive line where ever he goes......

Originally Posted by Brock

If you're excited about the prospect of Alex Smith coming here, you are a casual fan. I like alex smith, I don't think he is terrible, but you have to be some kind of special dumbass to think that the QB situation is settled based on that. And there are tons of people thinking/saying that.

I agree and disagree with your post. Alex Smith doesnt settle your qb position, he does however in the short term, STABILIZE it, and that at this point is probably more important. Now, if the chiefs can move albert for a second round pick, and then in the second Andy Reid grabs a qb that should be there like a Nassib, or Manuel, or Glennon, along with getting a franchise Left Tackle, (im higher on joeckel than some, i see a lot of joe thomas in him) then you are set for the future. Andy Reids biggest problem in philly the past 3 years has been his o line. Mainly this last season, Jason peters getting hurt. I believe they are building this the right way. I also believe that ALex Smith is a band aid, and that there isnt a qb worthy of the first overrall pick in ANDY REIDS EYES. If there had been, he could of traded for flynn, or waited until someone like matt hasselbeck, (who was released today) to come available, and taken the qb first overrall. Right or wrong, this is what their moves have shown

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by Alex Smith Fan

I hate to tell you this, well no i dont actually, but Geno Smith, any time he was pressured at west virginia, played pretty poorly. If you dont believe me, go watch the kansas state game. Geno Smith is going to need an offensive line where ever he goes......

How many West Virginia games have you watched?

[Bewbies]

Originally Posted by DTLB58

So has this been posted yet?

@Jeff_McLane: Just asked Andy Reid about Geno Smith and the possibility of Chiefs taking him No. 1: "I don't have to worry about him because I have ...
"... the first pick. You get what I'm saying?"

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Originally Posted by J Diddy

Hey dumbass. When the team you respect trades for a player, he becomes a member of the team you respect. Otherwise it's a team you don't respect.

I look forward to being pleasantly UN-suprised by Alice Smyth. And Rape yourself none too gently.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Mav]

Originally Posted by Pestilence

How many West Virginia games have you watched?

enough, but the one i did watch, aka the kansas state game, how did he look? when he had to move, he didnt look very good did he?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Choco-Penii Thunder FTW.
Posted via Mobile Device

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Fish

The bust potential of the LT and QB positions in the draft are equal.

No, they're not.

In 2007, two QB's and two left tackles were taken in the first round. Brady Quinn and JaMarcus Russell both busted.

Joe Thomas and Joe Staley did not.

Originally Posted by Fish

So if the Chiefs are deciding between QB and LT with the first pick, and neither position has a candidate that appears to be vastly better, and the risk of bust is relatively equal, then it's smarter to go with the one who's position is more important to the overall production of the team.

The risk of busting appears to be much greater with a QB taken #1 overall than a left tackle taken #1 overall.

At this point, it doesn't even matter because the Chiefs have chosen their QB for 2013, so a QB at #1 overall won't be the selection.

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by Alex Smith Fan

I hate to tell you this, well no i dont actually, but Geno Smith, any time he was pressured at west virginia, played pretty poorly. If you dont believe me, go watch the kansas state game. Geno Smith is going to need an offensive line where ever he goes...

I hate to tell you this, but Geno Smith was pressured all season long. His offensive line was a sieve. The Maryland game, the Texas game, the OU game, etc. Smith had guys in his face all season. And he passed for 71.4% and 42 TD's to 6 Ints while trying to make up for the 117th rated pass defense. That is handling pressure quite well.

I agree and disagree with your post. Alex Smith doesnt settle your qb position, he does however in the short term, STABILIZE it, and that at this point is probably more important. Now, if the chiefs can move albert for a second round pick, and then in the second Andy Reid grabs a qb that should be there like a Nassib, or Manuel, or Glennon, along with getting a franchise Left Tackle, (im higher on joeckel than some, i see a lot of joe thomas in him)

You are high as shit. Joeckel isn't even close to guys like Okung or Thomas. He doesn't have the power or athleticism of those guys and never will. He's a poor man's Matt Kalil at the very best. He wasn't even the best tackle on his college team. And he's coming from a pure spread system where he blocked for Fran Tarkenton Jr. His learning curve is going to be huge.

And guys like Nassib, Manuel or Glennon are not even remotely close to what Geno brings to the table. We're talking a magnitude of difference between Geno and those three in terms of skill set, accuracy, pocket presence and ceiling. Go watch the Pinstripe Bowl from this past season and watch Geno and Nassib in the same game, same weather conditions, etc. Except for Geno going against the 10th best pass rushing team and Nassib going against the 117th worst pass defense.