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Old 05-17-2018, 08:33 AM  
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Dem Rep Ellison: ‘Very Good Idea’ for Government to Regulate CEO Pay

But they're not commies or even fascists! Riiiiight!
Wednesday on Bloomberg, Rep. Keith Ellison (D-MN) said the government should “start talking about” regulating pay disparities between CEOs and the average worker....

Ellison said, “As you know, under the Dodd-Frank Financial Reform Act, it became required that the publicly traded companies would have to report the ratio between CEO pay and the median worker. It took about five years or more for the Securities Exchange Commission to create a rule. They finally did so now we have a data set of about 225 public the traded companies. We find that CEOs are paid an exorbitant amount of money’s compared workers. How bad and extreme it was really was shocking to me.”...

When asked if he is advocating government regulation, Ellison said,”I think it is a very good idea. We should start talking about it.”

Video in link with more info
http://www.breitbart.com/video/2018/...ulate-ceo-pay/

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Old 05-17-2018, 07:00 PM   #31
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Oh hell, let's get started shall we? I am sure that you can't see where you are wrong,

1) Because they are accepting a shitload in crony capitalist benefits. If conservatives are outraged about welfare, they should be just as outraged if not moreso about corporate welfare. And asking whether their tax dollars for these corporations are actually used to create value to the taxpayers. If corporations want to forge their way without or with less government incentives, then we have less reason to be critical about how executives are comp'ed

"Crony Capitalist benefits" Are YOU paying those "benefits" that are awarded by the Board of Directors? Didn't think so - therefore you are engaging in class envy. One of the first tenants of Communism.



2) I don't care what my peers or superiors make because we're paid market value. I have little desire to make executive pay - I wouldn't complain, but I'm perfectly fine with my living. When executives don't create jobs, more working class become unemployed and reliant on welfare. Your pension & equity gets a kick in the junk. Those jobs you hope will be there if your job is in jeopardy will be in short supply. I have been fortunate enough not to see downsizing, but I know too many good people who were not so lucky, especially in this current economy. When executive greed damages the economy, that impacts you and me indirectly, and I certainly care about that

Again - class envy. YOU have no desire to make executive pay? Why is that. You are "Satisfied" with your pay and have no "upward direction" again - another tenant of communism. How the HELL have executives (CEOs) had an adverse effect on the economy? Perhaps some of their decisions (possibly) but their compensation packages has absolutely no affect on our economy at large. Again - another tenant of Communism - Hate the successful.


3) Our executive comp is a laughingstock compared to most other economies. Study after study shows that executive comp is poorly correlated with performance. If you do a good job, sure, compensate away. If you do a bad job, executives still see pay hikes and worse, if they really **** up then they sail away on a tens of million dollar golden parachute.

I don't care if good executives make money. But it needs to be based on actual performance (not the crummy performance incentives we use today) and it needs to be dictated by a Board of Directors who is looking out for long-term shareholders. Instead, Boards are yes-men for executives and are creating atrocious incentive packages. Let's start there. Don't know how anyone can argue against either of those things.



And your point is what, exactly? That CEOs make more money than say, executives in Switzerland? Ever wonder what Steve Jobs made? 350 Million per year PLUS stock options. Why? Because HE built a multi-national corporation that had TWICE the GDP of Switzerland. This is AMERICA lad. The land of opportunity.

So, will YOU decide what is fair and what isn't? Or should we put it to a vote of the "Comrades"? I served at the American Embassy in Moscow for three years before the downfall of the Soviet Union. Those $40,000 cocktail parties and $50,000 Security teams at the Russian Embassy was paid for by someone, wouldn't you agree? Paid for by the very Babushkas (Grandmothers) that were standing in line outside of bakery's trying to get a half loaf of bread to keep from starving to death. Another Tenant of communism - Let the people eat cake.

I suggest you study a little history before you place yourself in charge of CEO pay. In a Capitalist Society the rich get richer and the poor - well, they've been poor for the last 2,000 years - I sincerely doubt that you will ever change that with your "ideals".

Meanwhile, the United States of America is probably the only country on earth where some clown that can't spell CAT if you spot him the C and the T - get's filthy rich playing a game - or inventing garbage headphones that he sells for 300 dollars above market value. Tell that guy that he's not worth the money he makes.....(Hint: He's not)

We live in a grand country. Or at least we USED to. Guys like yourself that believe that life is somehow "Fair" (God b less your little heart) well, this unfortunate chapter of this country has yet to be written.....God help us.

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Old 05-17-2018, 07:10 PM   #32
Randallflagg Randallflagg is offline
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
I just re-read it to you. But okay I'll number it out to you.

1) Crony capitalism and corporate welfare exist. And that is too MUCH government. The opposite of communism.
2) When CEOs don't create value or are over-compensated, they destroy economic value. Which impacts your investment and the job market which impacts you
3) When executive comp doesn't align with performance, then executives are doing a bad job for the economy. Market wage is capitalistic, not communist

What is communist about saying that executives should be properly compensated for performance. Meaning, if you suck at your job, you aren't rewarded as handsomely. Still waiting for you to tell me what part of anything I said is communist.

So will YOU decide what is "Fair" compensation based on "performance"? Or will someone else? Like, I don't know...a group of individuals who oversee their CEO....Oh yeah, a Board of Directors!!!

Do you NOT see the slippery slope that you head down?
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Old 05-17-2018, 07:20 PM   #33
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Good luck with all what? Government shouldn't force compensation. But regulation can most certainly focus on stopping the practice of board cronyism. And I thought getting rid of corporate welfare was something populists were on board with, where left and right were on the same side.

What is unreasonable about any of that? Those 2 things alone would be a big step in the right direction. Yeah, good luck with stopping government corruption.... if that's what you mean, sure I agree.
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Old 05-17-2018, 07:22 PM   #34
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What a company pays its executives (and employees) is none of the government's GD business.
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Old 05-17-2018, 07:32 PM   #35
Randallflagg Randallflagg is offline
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What a company pays its executives (and employees) is none of the government's GD business.




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Old 05-17-2018, 07:39 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Randallflagg View Post
"Crony Capitalist benefits" Are YOU paying those "benefits" that are awarded by the Board of Directors? Didn't think so - therefore you are engaging in class envy. One of the first tenants of Communism.
Crony capitalism is corporations lobbying and bribing government to provide excessive tax incentives and public funding. Often times this additional revenue improves a company's profitability which is tied to executive performance. You are absolutely paying for this.

Quote:
Again - class envy. YOU have no desire to make executive pay? Why is that. You are "Satisfied" with your pay and have no "upward direction" again - another tenant of communism. How the HELL have executives (CEOs) had an adverse effect on the economy? Perhaps some of their decisions (possibly) but their compensation packages has absolutely no affect on our economy at large. Again - another tenant of Communism - Hate the successful.
Oh boy. So if I tell you I'm jealous of executives and pissed that my superior is paid for me then I'm envious and hate the successful. But if I'm not complaining about my salary and situation then I'm complacent? So... um... who wins there? I'm not envious of what executives make, and I work hard and believe I have been and will continue to be compensated for performance. The point I've made over and over again is that execs should not be rewarded if they perform poorly.

Quote:
And your point is what, exactly? That CEOs make more money than say, executives in Switzerland? Ever wonder what Steve Jobs made? 350 Million per year PLUS stock options. Why? Because HE built a multi-national corporation that had TWICE the GDP of Switzerland. This is AMERICA lad. The land of opportunity.
It's not about CEOs making more money than Switzerland. It's about the widening wage differential between CEOs and workers, which America is wildly disproportionately higher than even successful economies like Japan. I've said multiple times (which you've ignored) that I don't have any issue whatsoever with Steve Jobs getting paid handsomely. Should Jamie Dimon earn a huge pay raise the year after his mistakes led to a $20B fine for his company? Should the Wells Fargo CEO get a $100M+ golden parachute after he led the way to one of the biggest and costliest scandals in his company history? Does anyone actually think Jeff Immelt is worth what he's doing right now? Yes, there are plenty of CEOs who earn their comp, but as a collective whole executive comp is NEGATIVELY correlated with performance. In other words, it's off and that should be corrected, which will create economic value for this country.

Quote:
So, will YOU decide what is fair and what isn't? Or should we put it to a vote of the "Comrades"? I served at the American Embassy in Moscow for three years before the downfall of the Soviet Union. Those $40,000 cocktail parties and $50,000 Security teams at the Russian Embassy was paid for by someone, wouldn't you agree? Paid for by the very Babushkas (Grandmothers) that were standing in line outside of bakery's trying to get a half loaf of bread to keep from starving to death. Another Tenant of communism - Let the people eat cake.

I suggest you study a little history before you place yourself in charge of CEO pay. In a Capitalist Society the rich get richer and the poor - well, they've been poor for the last 2,000 years - I sincerely doubt that you will ever change that with your "ideals".

Meanwhile, the United States of America is probably the only country on earth where some clown that can't spell CAT if you spot him the C and the T - get's filthy rich playing a game - or inventing garbage headphones that he sells for 300 dollars above market value. Tell that guy that he's not worth the money he makes.....(Hint: He's not)

We live in a grand country. Or at least we USED to. Guys like yourself that believe that life is somehow "Fair" (God b less your little heart) well, this unfortunate chapter of this country has yet to be written.....God help us.
Whoa... wow, that's a lot of ranting about no things I ever said. I'll repeat, if incentive packages are properly designed, then any executive who creates value for his/her company will and should be rewarded handsomely. I have no issue nor have I ever said I have an issue with GOOD executives getting richer.
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Old 05-17-2018, 07:42 PM   #37
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So will YOU decide what is "Fair" compensation based on "performance"? Or will someone else? Like, I don't know...a group of individuals who oversee their CEO....Oh yeah, a Board of Directors!!!

Do you NOT see the slippery slope that you head down?
Board of Directors are not impartial. They are too often yes-men for executives which especially includes incentive packages that are aligned to the executives, misaligned with the company's best interest.

I agree, an IMPARTIAL Board of Directors SHOULD be the solution to the problem. But only if they operate the way that they're supposed to. And today, they are not. So fix that problem. Don't ask government to fix compensation, which is basically a recipe for govt corruptly picking winners and choosers.
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Old 05-17-2018, 09:51 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
Board of Directors are not impartial. They are too often yes-men for executives which especially includes incentive packages that are aligned to the executives, misaligned with the company's best interest.

I agree, an IMPARTIAL Board of Directors SHOULD be the solution to the problem. But only if they operate the way that they're supposed to. And today, they are not. So fix that problem. Don't ask government to fix compensation, which is basically a recipe for govt corruptly picking winners and choosers.

You are full of shit.
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Old 05-17-2018, 10:21 PM   #39
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You are full of shit.
What a surprise. A total and complete apologist for corporations.

But good argument. I've been called a communist and told I'm full of shit (with not a single comment that actually addresses a single point I've made). Par for the course.
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Old 05-17-2018, 10:27 PM   #40
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Anyone remember this, in 2013 under Obama ?

Thomas Sowell said.

"We have truly entered the world of "Alice in Wonderland" when the CEO of a company that pays $16 million a day in taxes is hauled up before a Congressional subcommittee to be denounced on nationwide television for not paying more.

Apple CEO Tim Cook was denounced for contributing to "a worrisome federal deficit," according to Senator Carl Levin – one of the big-spending liberals in Congress who has had a lot more to do with creating that deficit than any private citizen has....

What is a tax "loophole"? It is a provision in the law that allows an individual or an organization to pay less taxes than they would be required to pay otherwise. Since Congress puts these provisions in the law, it is a little much when members of Congress denounce people who use those provisions to reduce their taxes."
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Old 05-17-2018, 10:58 PM   #41
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You are full of shit.
https://www.return-on-integrity.com/...chet-and-bingo
I bet you think Warren Buffet is full of shit too. "Ratchet, ratchet, bingo."

Buffet has also called stock options free lottery tickets. He also repeatedly criticizes the "shell game" of compensation. Basically executives keep board members knowledgeable about comp off the comp committee, CEO hires a comp consultant (comp consultant gives cushy comp #'s so the CEO will hire them again for future engagements). Feel free to read the comments below. Describes the broken process nicely. But what does... Warren Buffet know about executive compensation.

Quote:
Buffett describes the typical compensation-setting process this way. “The human relations director comes in and recommends a consultant to the board’s comp committee,” he says. “The human relations director is an employee of the CEO, his or her salary gets determined by the CEO, so what kind of a recommendation do you make to the comp committee? I don’t think comp committees should have consultants. If you don’t know enough about the game to work out a fair compensation arrangement get off the committee and put somebody on there who does know.”

He continues, getting more animated as he goes, “They (compensation committees) go in and put in a couple of hours a quarter, at most, and you’ve got a consultant that’s been picked by the management and basically it just keeps ratcheting upward and upward and upward and the targets get easier. And I would say that that has deteriorated enormously from fifty years ago.”

Buffett describes situations where compensation consultants present to the board the pay of CEO’s of other firms in their industry. These are usually expressed with averages and rankings by quartiles. Since boards tend to believe that their CEO’s, like the children of Lake Wobegon, are all above average, they pay them accordingly. As this occurs across the industry, the consultant’s calculated averages ratchet higher.

“I was on a board one time,” he says, chuckling, “and I forget the exact term I used to call their consulting firm, but I think it was ‘Ratchet, Ratchet and Bingo’ or something like that. But if you’re a consultant, what do you want? You want more consulting jobs. And how do you get more consulting jobs? You have CEOs who say you’re terrific. And how do you get CEOs to say you’re terrific? You give them a lot of money. It’s an accidentally corrupt system. It isn’t that comp committees set out to make it that way or anything like that. But, basically the only check on a CEO is the directors. The shareholders are not an effective check in most cases. So, the CEO keeps the directors very happy.”
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Old 05-18-2018, 04:52 AM   #42
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or inventing garbage headphones that he sells for 300 dollars above market value.
Looks like someone doesn’t understand the term market value.
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Old 05-18-2018, 07:29 AM   #43
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Trump populists: Drain the swamp! Drain the swamp! Boo crony capitalism.

Anyone: I think corporations do 1 thing wrong

Leave corporations alone!
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Old 05-18-2018, 07:40 AM   #44
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OK Ellison, you can regulate CEO pay and I will regulate politicians pay!

You are now down to $10.50 an hour, congratulations!
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Old 05-18-2018, 07:44 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
https://www.return-on-integrity.com/...chet-and-bingo
I bet you think Warren Buffet is full of shit too. "Ratchet, ratchet, bingo."
Warren Buffet is a Carpetbagger.
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