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Old 06-01-2018, 02:16 PM  
RodeoPants2 RodeoPants2 is offline
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Trump props up failing industry

LOL forever republicans. Do you have any principles left or are you just servants at the alter of the great leader trump?

Coal is a dying industry. We could bail it out, or we could let the free market do its thing.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...-plants-617112

Quote:
President Donald Trump on Friday formally threw his weight behind an administration push to compel power companies to keep their coal-fired and nuclear plants operating in the name of national security — an effort that has stirred criticism from environmentalists, the oil and gas industry and some free-market Republicans.
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Old 06-03-2018, 09:26 PM   #91
Pitt Gorilla Pitt Gorilla is online now
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Originally Posted by Frazod View Post
There is zero chance that you're actually stupid enough to believe this. None. Given that reality, one has to wonder why you've gone all Taco John and decided to post something that you know to be false.
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Old 06-03-2018, 09:34 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla View Post
There is zero chance that you're actually stupid enough to believe this. None. Given that reality, one has to wonder why you've gone all Taco John and decided to post something that you know to be false.
I suppose you think they magically sprout from ground seeded with unicorn farts and lesbian smegma, right?
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Old 06-03-2018, 09:43 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla View Post
There is zero chance that you're actually stupid enough to believe this. None. Given that reality, one has to wonder why you've gone all Taco John and decided to post something that you know to be false.
What a strange post.

It doesn't take much searching on Google to find out that this is accurate. Also, in that same searching, it doesn't take long to find out that wind advocates are very pissy about it and take the same tone as Pitt Gorilla without providing much more than bile as supporting evidence.

Even Liberal Snopes says it's at the very least "mixed."
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/wind-idiot-power/
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Old 06-03-2018, 09:44 PM   #94
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"There's zero chance that you're stupid enough to believe this, even though there is a ton of supporting evidence for it all over the Internet. Taco John." -Pitt Gorilla
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Old 06-03-2018, 09:48 PM   #95
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Originally Posted by Fish View Post
....
Truth. It makes you giddy.
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Old 06-03-2018, 10:02 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
What a strange post.

It doesn't take much searching on Google to find out that this is accurate. Also, in that same searching, it doesn't take long to find out that wind advocates are very pissy about it and take the same tone as Pitt Gorilla without providing much more than bile as supporting evidence.

Even Liberal Snopes says it's at the very least "mixed."
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/wind-idiot-power/
Literally taken from your link:

The concept of net energy must be applied to renewable sources of energy, such as windmills and photovoltaics. A two-megawatt windmill contains 260 tonnes of steel requiring 170 tonnes of coking coal and 300 tonnes of iron ore, all mined, transported and produced by hydrocarbons. The question is: how long must a windmill generate energy before it creates more energy than it took to build it? At a good wind site, the energy payback day could be in three years or less; in a poor location, energy payback may be never. That is, a windmill could spin until it falls apart and never generate as much energy as was invested in building it.

Clearly, the concept of net energy is crucial if we want to find a policy that will see us through the Energy Sustainability Dilemma.”


You could also go to the source (the editor of the book from which the "passage" was lifted): https://homerdixon.com/no-not-say-wi...y-idiot-power/
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Old 06-03-2018, 10:03 PM   #97
Pitt Gorilla Pitt Gorilla is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
"There's zero chance that you're stupid enough to believe this, even though there is a ton of supporting evidence for it all over the Internet. Taco John." -Pitt Gorilla
Again, read your actual link or the paper from which is was taken. I know you won't actually do either, so I'm clearly wasting my time.

BTW, why did you post an image that you knew to be fake?
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Old 06-03-2018, 10:20 PM   #98
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"SEE GUYS! IT'S CONTESTED! THAT MEANS I'M OBVIOUSLY RIGHT AND CAN ACT LIKE A COMPLETE ASS IN THIS DEBATE WHICH I CLEARLY WON BECAUSE IT'S CONTESTED RIGHT THERE IN YOUR LINK! SLAM DUNK! WHY ARE YOU POSTING FAKE GRAPHICS! I'M CLEARLY WASTING MY TIME!"

/modern loser lib
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Old 06-03-2018, 10:26 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
"SEE GUYS! IT'S CONTESTED! THAT MEANS I'M OBVIOUSLY RIGHT AND CAN ACT LIKE A COMPLETE ASS IN THIS DEBATE WHICH I CLEARLY WON BECAUSE IT'S CONTESTED RIGHT THERE IN YOUR LINK! SLAM DUNK! WHY ARE YOU POSTING FAKE GRAPHICS! I'M CLEARLY WASTING MY TIME!"

/modern loser lib
It appears you read "Mixture" and nothing else.

Again, the cited paper FROM YOUR LINK was quite clear. "At a good wind site, the energy payback day could be in three years or less; in a poor location, energy payback may be never."

How is this possibly confusing to you?
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Old 06-03-2018, 10:45 PM   #100
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Net energy isn't that dispositive to the question of whether wind turbines CAN EVER be productive uses of resources and engineering effort.

The numbers are fairly robust and pedestrian regarding the time and materials investment in construction as well as the time rate of production once constructed and erected, and finally as well in the durability and life expectancy of critical materials.

And in properly vetted locations with reliable wind production, the ROI makes the enterprise profitable.

But net energy is vitally important to the consideration of this broader question of whether it is feasible to simply expand renewables regardless of the rate of energy production in return simply in an effort to drive out fossil fuel energy production.

Harnessed and directed energy is the driving force behind of our quality of life. And wasted energy or unnecessarily expensive energy is what it is, whether it's wasted leaving your air conditioning on full blast your entire life, running a NASCAR league, or building unproductive renewable energy generation units , or constructing inefficient electric vehicles to sit on a spreadsheet and/or in a garage, rather then being productively used.

Last edited by Baby Lee; 06-03-2018 at 10:54 PM..
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Old 06-03-2018, 10:52 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla View Post
It appears you read "Mixture" and nothing else.

Again, the cited paper FROM YOUR LINK was quite clear. "At a good wind site, the energy payback day could be in three years or less; in a poor location, energy payback may be never."

How is this possibly confusing to you?
It's not. I read both parts. Some are able to recoup, some aren't. I'm not sure why this is so hard for you. It's puzzling why you act like you've dunked on anyone in this thread. You've only shown that the question is contested, after saying, "there is zero chance that you're actually stupid enough to believe this." You're really showing your ass here.
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Old 06-03-2018, 10:59 PM   #102
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I didn't post the graphic, but somehow my name got drug into this...

So I'll ask the question: Which part of this graphic is fake. From the research I've done, every word is arguably true.



To be clear, I'm not asking about offsets. I'm asking which part of this graphic is too stupid to believe and based on what? Everything I've found points to this graphic being reasonably in line with the facts.
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Old 06-04-2018, 07:16 AM   #103
Jim Hammer Jim Hammer is offline
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
I didn't post the graphic, but somehow my name got drug into this...

So I'll ask the question: Which part of this graphic is fake. From the research I've done, every word is arguably true.



To be clear, I'm not asking about offsets. I'm asking which part of this graphic is too stupid to believe and based on what? Everything I've found points to this graphic being reasonably in line with the facts.
The last sentence is misleading. While it may be true that you could put a wind generator someplace that wouldn't have enough wind to recoup the initial investment, they research the sites to ensure they are placed where they will be productive.

And you could alter that last sentence for any other power plant and still be technically correct.

"A coal plant could run until its turbines fall apart and never generate as much energy as was invested in building it."
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Old 06-04-2018, 08:36 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Truth. It makes you giddy.
Admit it, you have the same misconception about "Clean coal" that Trump does....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trump
“We’ve ended the war on beautiful, clean coal,” he said. “It’s just been announced that a second, brand-new coal mine, where they’re going to take out clean coal — meaning, they’re taking out coal. They’re going to clean it— is opening in the state of Pennsylvania, the second one.”
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Old 06-04-2018, 08:49 AM   #105
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The last sentence is misleading. While it may be true that you could put a wind generator someplace that wouldn't have enough wind to recoup the initial investment, they research the sites to ensure they are placed where they will be productive.

And you could alter that last sentence for any other power plant and still be technically correct.

"A coal plant could run until its turbines fall apart and never generate as much energy as was invested in building it."
While I agree that the sentence is qualified, the analogy to a 'possible' non-productive fossil fuel turbine is ill-considered for a couple of reasons.

First off, one of the most important features of operating a turbine generator in the manner of a coal-fired plant [secondary perhaps only to the $/KWh] is the ability to control and meter the fuel and thus the production. Coal-fired plants only go down for maintenance or [someday] the complete depletion of fuel. They aren't subject to the uncontrollable variance compelled by wind or solar.

Second, but related. Turbines in coal-fired [or any combustion process] aren't like windmills or water wheels, or solar accumulators, where they can scale from a lazy trickle to full power. Steam turbines operate in a set range with a specific superheated steam. You can't just set up a 'trickle' of low-temperature steam and have the turbine lazily rotate in turn generating a 'trickle' of power.

Though I guess, in some hypertechnical reading, you can find your analogy accurate. If you tried to just burn a little bit of coal and minimally heat some water to half-assed run a turbine, you'd destroy the entire operation in short order, . . . and yes that would be wasteful and inefficient, . . . and colossally retarded.
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