Is Gonzalez to Blame? - Page 2

Chief Nute · 09-12-2006, 07:39 AM

I love Tony as much as the next guy, and this is pure speculation, but when Willie was out last year, didnt Tony take on more of a blocking role to protect the QB? I know Tony did a lot of bitching because he knows that he is more effective as a pass catcher........and I notice that Tony had 10 catches against the Bengals which means he wasnt doing a whole lot of pass protecting/run blocking.

Obviously our line suffered because our tackles suck, but did it also hurt that Tony (assuming......) made it clear to the new staff that he is a pass catcher and not a blocker?

**cdcox** · 09-12-2006, 08:41 AM

The Chiefs may need to run more of a maximum protection scheme on certain pass plays. But I'd still want TG to be in the pattern because he is probably the only reciever we have that presents a legitimate mismatch in the secondary. I'll play genious for a second and suggest a base 2-TE single-back formation. On first and second down, this formation would give us good run and pass options. On passing plays, send TG and the two wideouts into the pattern leave Dunn in to block/check down and keep the back in to block. The problem is, who is the back that can pass block? Here is where it would be nice to have PH still. He could pass block and was a legitmate threat to take a dump off pass for a first down. Maybe Larry worked on his pass blocking in the offseason...

We definitely need to avoid 3rd and long, because three recievers in the pattern in obvious passing situations aren't going to cut it, especially if the pass protection is suspect.

Mosbonian · 09-12-2006, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lj4mvp

You don't have to out-career a guy to be better than him. .

In my book you do....there are too many 1 and 2 year wonders in this world for me to put Gates above Gonzo. I am not saying Gates is one of the best at the position right now, but when he does the above that I mentioned then we will talk.

mmaddog
*******

InChiefsHeaven · 09-12-2006, 08:45 AM

Turley is not incompetent, just undersized. He held his own MUCH better than did Black. Black was friggin horrible the entire game. Turley has a problem with pass blocking, again because of his size. He was not the problem on Sunday. Just a part of the problem.

StcChief · 09-12-2006, 08:51 AM

Gonzo does punt well, though

Chief Nute · 09-12-2006, 08:51 AM

Yea, I havent re-watched the game or anything, but a two-TE set may be in order. It isnt like we have such stud wide receivers that we need to keep them all on the field all the time.....

And one more thing.....to you guys that think Gates is better.......Just because you would take Gates before Gonzalez in your fantasy draft, doesnt automatically make him a better TE.

jspchief · 09-12-2006, 09:40 AM

What's the point of keeping Gonzo in to pass protect when removing him from route running makes our passing game ineffective anyway?

Does anyone think Kennison and Parker are going to get open without Gonzo out there to attract safeties? Gonzo is the reason we don't need a true #1 WR. Take him out of the equation, and our WRs will be exposed for what they are...mediocre.

Chief Nute · 09-12-2006, 09:43 AM

Our receivers were exposed as mediocre LONG ago.

jspchief · 09-12-2006, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Nute

Our receivers were exposed as mediocre LONG ago.

Hence 4,000 yards passing each of the last 3 years

The fact is, we had WRs that worked very well within our offense. We pay Tony Gonzalez a lot of money to take pressure off the WR position. We can afford him because he allows us to skimp at WR.

The minute we start using him as a blocking TE, our passing game is going to tank anyway. It won't matter how much time the QB has if both our receivers are double covered every play.

We can't fix the passing game by putting 9 guys in to block. We have to design plays that allow the QB to get rid of the ball quicker.

**cdcox** · 09-12-2006, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jspchief

We can't fix the passing game by putting 9 guys in to block. We have to design plays that allow the QB to get rid of the ball quicker.

That too, definitely.

But pure dink-and-dunk still allows the safeties to play up in run support with zero penalties. The corners also start jumping routes. You have to go downfield (20+ yards) once in a while and that takes time. Seven in protection and 3 in patterns should give a good balance between targets and protection if you run it in a down and distance situation where the defense is not playing pure pass. Mix in some play action, and you have a real passing game.

Chief Faithful · 09-12-2006, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lj4mvp

Not to go Mecca on everyone, but Gates is better than Gonzalez. Not by the margin that most claim, but he's more dangerous.

More dangerous? I would agree with more open. Gonzo is not only a pass catcher, but an accomplished blocker.

kcxiv · 09-12-2006, 11:05 AM

he's a lil better then gonzo right now. He's younger, he's still getting better. I dont its just a matter if he can do it consistantly.He still cant touch Gonzo yet, getitng close though. I have no problem giving him credit when he gives a few years of good consistant play.

And HELL no Tony is not to blame.

Calcountry · 09-12-2006, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Nute

OK, well then let me rephrase........

Since Jordan Black and Kyle Turley are incompetent pieces of shit, would the Chiefs be better served to have Tony G. play more of a blocking role to keep another quarterback's head from getting mashed in?

Especially since they went out and got another possession type receiver yesterday.

My speculation is based on the fact that it seemed that Tony G. was bitching and moaning about not getting enough looks last year......which is true, right?

I don't exactly know what TG's salary is, but even I know, that you DON'T pay that kind of salary and then tell him to go be a pass blocking Tight end.

Eleazar · 09-12-2006, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jspchief

Hence 4,000 yards passing each of the last 3 years

No kidding.

GAWD the collective "dumb" around here has increased by a factor of 10 this week.

Chief Nute · 09-12-2006, 12:23 PM

Hey Cochise, why dont you shove it up your ass?

If you dont agree that our receivers are mediocre, then let me send you about 4 seasons worth of game tape.

Just because you throw for 4000 yards doesnt make your receivers competent, especially when about half of it comes from TE's and RB's.

**Mr. Kotter** · 09-12-2006, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Nute

Hey Cochise, why dont you shove it up your ass?

If you dont agree that our receivers are mediocre, then let me send you about 4 seasons worth of game tape.

Just because you throw for 4000 yards doesnt make your receivers competent, especially when about half of it comes from TE's and RB's.

Another fan of, "How to Make Friends and Influence People" I see....

09-12-2006, 07:39 AM
Chief Nute Site Owner Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: THE State of Ohio Casino cash: $9934900	Is Gonzalez to Blame? I love Tony as much as the next guy, and this is pure speculation, but when Willie was out last year, didnt Tony take on more of a blocking role to protect the QB? I know Tony did a lot of bitching because he knows that he is more effective as a pass catcher........and I notice that Tony had 10 catches against the Bengals which means he wasnt doing a whole lot of pass protecting/run blocking. Obviously our line suffered because our tackles suck, but did it also hurt that Tony (assuming......) made it clear to the new staff that he is a pass catcher and not a blocker?
Posts: 332

09-12-2006, 08:41 AM	#16
cdcox www.nfl-forecast.com Join Date: Sep 2000 Casino cash: $2361769	The Chiefs may need to run more of a maximum protection scheme on certain pass plays. But I'd still want TG to be in the pattern because he is probably the only reciever we have that presents a legitimate mismatch in the secondary. I'll play genious for a second and suggest a base 2-TE single-back formation. On first and second down, this formation would give us good run and pass options. On passing plays, send TG and the two wideouts into the pattern leave Dunn in to block/check down and keep the back in to block. The problem is, who is the back that can pass block? Here is where it would be nice to have PH still. He could pass block and was a legitmate threat to take a dump off pass for a first down. Maybe Larry worked on his pass blocking in the offseason... We definitely need to avoid 3rd and long, because three recievers in the pattern in obvious passing situations aren't going to cut it, especially if the pass protection is suspect.
Posts: 45,536

09-12-2006, 08:45 AM	#18
InChiefsHeaven Rockin' yer FACE OFF! Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Omaha, Nebraska Casino cash: $3904937	Turley is not incompetent, just undersized. He held his own MUCH better than did Black. Black was friggin horrible the entire game. Turley has a problem with pass blocking, again because of his size. He was not the problem on Sunday. Just a part of the problem. __________________ We have a million reasons for failure, but not one excuse... Die Donks, DIE!! Holy Crap fellas!!! We did it!!! THREE TIMES!!!
Posts: 25,716

09-12-2006, 08:51 AM	#19
StcChief Playing for #1 Draft Pick Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Just West of Lambs land Casino cash: $10004900	Gonzo does punt well, though __________________ sig test for this screwy schema
Posts: 25,901

09-12-2006, 08:51 AM	#20
Chief Nute Site Owner Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: THE State of Ohio Casino cash: $9934900	Yea, I havent re-watched the game or anything, but a two-TE set may be in order. It isnt like we have such stud wide receivers that we need to keep them all on the field all the time..... And one more thing.....to you guys that think Gates is better.......Just because you would take Gates before Gonzalez in your fantasy draft, doesnt automatically make him a better TE.
Posts: 332

09-12-2006, 09:40 AM	#21
jspchief BAMF Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Your Face Casino cash: $9998710	What's the point of keeping Gonzo in to pass protect when removing him from route running makes our passing game ineffective anyway? Does anyone think Kennison and Parker are going to get open without Gonzo out there to attract safeties? Gonzo is the reason we don't need a true #1 WR. Take him out of the equation, and our WRs will be exposed for what they are...mediocre. __________________ Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all.
Posts: 27,207

09-12-2006, 09:43 AM	#22
Chief Nute Site Owner Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: THE State of Ohio Casino cash: $9934900	Our receivers were exposed as mediocre LONG ago.
Posts: 332

09-12-2006, 11:05 AM	#26
kcxiv In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Central Valley, Cali Casino cash: $8807996	he's a lil better then gonzo right now. He's younger, he's still getting better. I dont its just a matter if he can do it consistantly.He still cant touch Gonzo yet, getitng close though. I have no problem giving him credit when he gives a few years of good consistant play. And HELL no Tony is not to blame.
Posts: 29,110

09-12-2006, 12:23 PM	#29
Chief Nute Site Owner Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: THE State of Ohio Casino cash: $9934900	Hey Cochise, why dont you shove it up your ass? If you dont agree that our receivers are mediocre, then let me send you about 4 seasons worth of game tape. Just because you throw for 4000 yards doesnt make your receivers competent, especially when about half of it comes from TE's and RB's.
Posts: 332