Installing a passenger side mirror?

[Hootie]

some dipshit kicked/punched my side mirror off and I had to go to ebay to buy a replacement...

I am not savvy enough (I'm a dipshit) to install it myself and I am getting a little bit of work done tomorrow at an auto shop and I'm going to bring the mirror with me and ask them to install it for me...

how much should I be expecting them to charge me for that labor since I have already bought the part?

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by Saul Good

Right. Buyer beware.

You're just taking advantage of the fact that the old lady walking in the door doesn't know how long a job actually takes.

Why don't you try telling your next customer, "according to the professional estimating tool, this job should take three hours. I'm only going to spend two and a half hours working on it, but I'm going to bill you for three and a half hours."

This.

[Exoter175]

Originally Posted by mikeyis4dcats.

unless I'm mistaked the book is not binding, only a guide. There is nothing unethical IMHO about padding book times. If history has shown a given shop cannot complete the work in the "book time" then they need to bill whatever the actual time is.

You are not mistaken, book times are just rough guides on how long it should take a mechanic without breaks, without other cars, to finish the job. I adjust it by 10% to account for phone calls, working on multiple cars at a time, and making sure the work is done right, so that my mechanics don't have to rush.

I don't bill you more or less than what our contract states.

Originally Posted by Saul Good

What a great guy. All you're really doing is checking a book to see how long a job should take (knowing full well that it won't even take you as long as the book estimates), upping the number of hours by 10-25%, billing the customer accordingly, and calling yourself thorough.

No, that is not how it works at all.

When I pull up the book and add all of the services in it, it already has the scaling factor included.

More often than not, it takes every bit of the book time, if not more, to complete the task, and that is almost always due to my mechanics being thorough, making sure they don't rush, triple check their work, and even do a "check out" report that most shops do not do.

our "Check out" report is simply an inspect of the vehicle inside and out, to make sure we did or did not damage the vehicle in any way while we were working on it. We also do a "check in" report that most shops do not do, because it takes time.

I am incredibly thorough, and I like to cover my ass. In all honesty, when all is said and done, you might pay me for 2.2 hours on an estimated 2 hour job, but I probably had a mechanic working 3.5 hours on your vehicle.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

Originally Posted by Saul Good

He's LYING to the customer.

where?

[The Franchise]

How big is your shop?

[Saul Good]

I'd love to be your property management company. You'd get a bill for a month and a quarter's worth of rent every month. I'd tell you it's because it's such a prime location.

When you complained that the location should have already been factored into the rent, I'd explain that I was just being thorough.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

Originally Posted by Saul Good

I'd love to be your property management company. You'd get a bill for a month and a quarter's worth of rent every month. I'd tell you it's because it's such a prime location.

When you complained that the location should have already been factored into the rent, I'd explain that I was just being thorough.

that makes zero sense.

you have yet to show where he has billed a customer MORE than what they were quoted.

you usually seem to have a pretty good head on your shoulders, but you're being obtuse here or just ignorant.

[Exoter175]

Originally Posted by Saul Good

I totally agree. That's not what he's doing, though. If the book says 3 hours, he's doing it in 2.5 hours and billing the customer for 3.5 hours.

Says who?

The book tells me it is 2 hours, you get charged 2 hours. I don't SEE the scaling factor there, and neither do you. I don't add anything else in, it is in the software to add 10% there, and that 10% accounts for our thorough work and all of the other services we offer that NOBODY else offers.

Originally Posted by mikeyis4dcats.

I don't think you understand the process.

Similarly in construction, there are Cost Books which give contractors industry averages for performing various types of work. Some bid straight off them, some adjust, and some (like me) only use them when dealing with something we don't have a grasp on.

If the cost book tells me it will take 43 hours to install wood trim in a fancy conference room, and it only takes me 30, that's my windfall. It helps even out the next job when it takes us 70 hours instead of 43.

And again, as I understand it, he is using the "book" to quote repairs, then billing what he quoted. Nothing wrong with that.

Exactly, and no, he doesn't get the idea of business here, nor does he understand that in every field of business where this is applicable, it is done the EXACT same way.

Originally Posted by mikeyis4dcats.

So? The book is simply industry averages. There is NOTHING requiring a mechanic to bill "by the book" or even use "the book" at all.

He's telling the customer 3.5 hrs and billing 3.5 hrs.

Bingo.

Originally Posted by Saul Good

Right. Buyer beware.

You're just taking advantage of the fact that the old lady walking in the door doesn't know how long a job actually takes.

Why don't you try telling your next customer, "according to the professional estimating tool, this job should take three hours. I'm only going to spend two and a half hours working on it, but I'm going to bill you for three and a half hours."

You really do not get it at all.

When that lady comes in and tells me she needs her intake manifold gaskets changed, I quote her for the part, the time it takes to do the job, the additional time to R&R the gasket, as the book shows it, any fluids I need, and any disposal.

I show this to her, she signs off on it, I do the repair, she pays me when it is done.

It doesn't matter if you are 5, 55, man, or woman, the quote is going to be the same. I don't profile who comes in, and the software doesn't allow me to add hours or services to the bill without them getting shown, You literally do NOT understand the process here.

This is what it will look like

-Intake Manifold Gasket 34.99
--Intake Manifold Gasket@2.2 Hours
-Disposal @2.99

Subtotal= 213.98
+ Tax @ 8.65%
Total= 232.49

If I add anything else on there, it shows it on the quote right underneath that disposal. You literally CANNOT simply add hours to a quote without seeing what they are for. I can't scale individual hours either. If it says 3.2 hours for a manifold, and then .7 hours for a gasket, I can't make them bigger or smaller, they are scaled wholly across the book and do not allow for individual scaling.

Originally Posted by Saul Good

He's LYING to the customer.

No I'm not.

Originally Posted by mikeyis4dcats.

where?

This guy has common sense.

[Exoter175]

Originally Posted by mikeyis4dcats.

that makes zero sense.

you have yet to show where he has billed a customer MORE than what they were quoted.

you usually seem to have a pretty good head on your shoulders, but you're being obtuse here or just ignorant.

Thank you, this is exactly what I"m getting at.

I'm trying to be as transparent as I can possibly be here, without just telling him to **** off, but I'd rather everyone KNOW how the industry works, than insult a mechanic for 20 bucks.

Know what I mean.

He's under the idea that I'm quoting grandma 8.5 hours for an intake manifold gasket that will take 3 hours, but doesn't understand that everything is done on the computer and every part and service is itemized there for everything that I charge, that I cannot individually scale a task's hours, or add in a charge that doesn't get printed on the paper.

[Saul Good]

Originally Posted by mikeyis4dcats.

that makes zero sense.

you have yet to show where he has billed a customer MORE than what they were quoted.

you usually seem to have a pretty good head on your shoulders, but you're being obtuse here or just ignorant.

He's not charging for anything not on the quote, but he is putting things on the quote that aren't actually happening. He is intentionally quoting the job to take longer than it will and should require.

He can put blinker fluid and muffler bearings in the quote in hopes that the customer won't know any better, and it's the same thing.

[Exoter175]

Originally Posted by Saul Good

He's not charging for anything not on the quote, but he is putting things on the quote that aren't actually happening. He is intentionally quoting the job to take longer than it will and should require.

He can put blinker fluid and muffler bearings in the quote in hopes that the customer won't know any better, and it's the same thing.

What am I putting in the quote that isn't actually happening? Please explain that.

Also, believe it or not, some cars have muffler bearings.

[Frosty]

The thing that is annoying about this to me is that there are mechanics out there that treat "the book" like gospel and now I find out that the numbers are likely pulled out of their ass.

For example, when I had my '05 Silverado, I had an issue with the intermediate steering shaft clunking. GM used a shitty part in the '99 - '06 Pickups that would run dry of grease and make clunking noises at low speed turns. It's a known issue and GM put out an updated replacement part.

Anyway, I took it to the local dealer and they insisted that they had to charge me for labor and that "the book" said 2 hours. So it was around $150 labor plus parts to fix GMs screw-up.

I ended up hiring a Mexican to do it.

Actually, I didn't. I bought a replacement shaft from NAPA and did it myself. Despite being an all-thumbs mechanic, I did it in less than a half hour. I don't mind paying a fair price and I care more for the bottom line price than the number of hours or whatever, but hiding behind the book to justify exorbitant prices is uncool.

[The Franchise]

If I quote someone 8 hours to work on a website....it's because worst case scenario....it should only take me 8 hours to do it. If I complete it in 5 hours.....I charge them 5 hours because that's the ACTUAL amount of time that it took me to do it.

[Saul Good]

Originally Posted by Exoter175

What am I putting in the quote that isn't actually happening? Please explain that.

Also, believe it or not, some cars have muffler bearings.

You are charging for hours of labor that weren't performed and shouldn't have been needed knowing fully well that you weren't going to spend that long on the job.

[Saul Good]

Originally Posted by Pestilence

If I quote someone 8 hours to work on a website....it's because worst case scenario....it should only take me 8 hours to do it. If I complete it in 5 hours.....I charge them 5 hours because that's the ACTUAL amount of time that it took me to do it.

You have no idea how a businesses works.

[Exoter175]

Originally Posted by Frosty

The thing that is annoying about this to me is that there are mechanics out there that treat "the book" like gospel and now I find out that the numbers are likely pulled out of their ass.

For example, when I had my '05 Silverado, I had an issue with the intermediate steering shaft clunking. GM used a shitty part in the '99 - '06 Pickups that would run dry of grease and make clunking noises at low speed turns. It's a known issue and GM put out an updated replacement part.

Anyway, I took it to the local dealer and they insisted that they had to charge me for labor and that "the book" said 2 hours. So it was around $150 labor plus parts to fix GMs screw-up.

I ended up hiring a Mexican to do it.

Actually, I didn't. I bought a replacement shaft from NAPA and did it myself. Despite being an all-thumbs mechanic, I did it in less than a half hour. I don't mind paying a fair price and I care more for the bottom line price than the number of hours or whatever, but hiding behind the book to justify exorbitant prices is uncool.

And those prices are exorbitantly high because they have to run a business. At 110 dollars per labor hour, they are going to make a killing, but it costs them money to run that business with all of the people they have to pay.

Despite that, there are people out there that want their cars worked on ONLY by trained professionals backed by insurance and a warranty, that is what you pay for at a dealership.

Smaller ships like my previous two shops, can give you that same quality of work, insurance, and warranty, at about 60% of the cost, by lowering my labor rate and not scaling my book time nearly as much as a dealership does. Not to mention, I have the ability to "haggle" my own prices down to make a sale if I need to, that doesn't happen at the dealership.


If I told you what the dealership marks its parts costs up by, and how much they inflate their book numbers, you guys would shit yourselves.